Greg, have you heard about Fords solution to their problems. It can't miss! Change the name of the 500 to Taurus!! Problem solved, everyone back to their work stations.
Visteon to close Connersville, IN plant Sept 1
- Thread starter MSinger
- Start date
greg334
Veteran Expediter
Yea I heard that before it hit the press.
I think this illistrates my point, the Taurus was still selling good but they wanted to close Atlanta - going in circles?
The other thing I heard is that they will stop building the 500/taurus here and move it to the place where the platform was design - Volvo.
I think this illistrates my point, the Taurus was still selling good but they wanted to close Atlanta - going in circles?
The other thing I heard is that they will stop building the 500/taurus here and move it to the place where the platform was design - Volvo.
Jefferson3000
Expert Expediter
>Buy foreign but do not complain when you have less loads to
>haul.
Sorry Ace, but I beg to differ. If you are hauling less loads because of people buying Toyotas, it is due to your carrier only hauling for the Big 3. It has nothing to do with Japanese companies killing expedited freight. It has more to do with a lazy and narrow-minded sales staff at some carriers. Someone or even many someones are going after those "foreign" auto makers to haul their freight. MSinger just testified to that. I personally have hauled more freight of foreign companies than the big 3. Especially in the last couple of years.
Driver for 15 years
O/O for 13 years
OOIDA #829119
Drive Safe!
Jeff
>haul.
Sorry Ace, but I beg to differ. If you are hauling less loads because of people buying Toyotas, it is due to your carrier only hauling for the Big 3. It has nothing to do with Japanese companies killing expedited freight. It has more to do with a lazy and narrow-minded sales staff at some carriers. Someone or even many someones are going after those "foreign" auto makers to haul their freight. MSinger just testified to that. I personally have hauled more freight of foreign companies than the big 3. Especially in the last couple of years.
Driver for 15 years
O/O for 13 years
OOIDA #829119
Drive Safe!
Jeff
Jefferson,
I have my own authority we haul very little auto freight.
The point that I am trying to make is along with the website is that the foreign companies do not buy as many parts from domestic part manufactures as do GM and Ford.
I will never understand how people are happy to send money back to foreign lands when they can support American owned companies.
I have my own authority we haul very little auto freight.
The point that I am trying to make is along with the website is that the foreign companies do not buy as many parts from domestic part manufactures as do GM and Ford.
I will never understand how people are happy to send money back to foreign lands when they can support American owned companies.
greg334
Veteran Expediter
Ace,
I understand what your getting at but let's face it the days of a closed market society are over with and we don't have much choice in the matter. We didn't learn any lessons from the UK when they went through all of this.
You focused on cars but look at computers, what do we really manufacture here? Processors and sometimes memory.
What about agriculture, I have an article about importing Roses for Valentines day, we use 1.x billion roses but only produce 99 million. I think that if we stop destoying good farm land for cookie cutter houses in prison compounds and using it for agriculture is a good thing. You know that we can actually provide most of the food for the world accroding to some UN report.
And when you go to the store and buy them veggies, leafy things and Bananans do you think that a lot of that is US production? no it is not, bananas come from central america.
Oh and let's not forget of the invader who sends most of his/her money back to Mexico. Companies like Dole use the excuse that we need them to harvest our food but are too lazy to go to Cat or Deere and say we need a machine to do this. If they can mechnically harvest strawberrys, they sure can do that with lettuce. Is there any difference between buying a foreign car and buying a Dole product?
Did you know that a lot of Pharma research and production is done overseas when it can be done here?
Did you know that a lot of the banks, credit card companies and even the medical field is outsourcing to India and Pakistan? Did you know that there are doctors in India that now look at xrays from here and diagnos problems while you are getting charged the same amount?
See Ace, I would love to see a strong manufacuring base like we used to have but it is not going to happen because the politicians and the people with the power are in control.
I understand what your getting at but let's face it the days of a closed market society are over with and we don't have much choice in the matter. We didn't learn any lessons from the UK when they went through all of this.
You focused on cars but look at computers, what do we really manufacture here? Processors and sometimes memory.
What about agriculture, I have an article about importing Roses for Valentines day, we use 1.x billion roses but only produce 99 million. I think that if we stop destoying good farm land for cookie cutter houses in prison compounds and using it for agriculture is a good thing. You know that we can actually provide most of the food for the world accroding to some UN report.
And when you go to the store and buy them veggies, leafy things and Bananans do you think that a lot of that is US production? no it is not, bananas come from central america.
Oh and let's not forget of the invader who sends most of his/her money back to Mexico. Companies like Dole use the excuse that we need them to harvest our food but are too lazy to go to Cat or Deere and say we need a machine to do this. If they can mechnically harvest strawberrys, they sure can do that with lettuce. Is there any difference between buying a foreign car and buying a Dole product?
Did you know that a lot of Pharma research and production is done overseas when it can be done here?
Did you know that a lot of the banks, credit card companies and even the medical field is outsourcing to India and Pakistan? Did you know that there are doctors in India that now look at xrays from here and diagnos problems while you are getting charged the same amount?
See Ace, I would love to see a strong manufacuring base like we used to have but it is not going to happen because the politicians and the people with the power are in control.
I have always found it to be a play on words in that when you call American On Line for a question you are actually talking to India On Line. You know if some of these VP jobs were getting exported to India or whatever things might be different. In my experience working in the corporate world the VP's that I reported too had very little to do. They would come in in the morning ,have BS meetings, push paper around and order the middle level folks to do tasks with impossible timelines thus making themselves feel important.
joebob1_30132
Expert Expediter
What a hot topic that directly effects all of us.Nice pic of Das boote lawerence.. heres a fact ..the reason for the super highway is because those containers you see on das boote are too smaal and much lager ones cannot be carried through the pannama cannal.So the bigger ones need to be dropped off (from china in mexico) too be taken to Ks and then to canada. we do need to buy american .. but like trucks not hauling cheap freight for profit reasons , manufactors will not make things for a small profit. Technology has made it easier the villager to run a business out of a hut in indonesia. and china is saying we will pay our people what we want ..try to stop us.and finally my neighbor likes getting that toyota made better and cheap. he dont care about the fork lift drivers pension,healthcare etc. over at Gm. Kill the unions, and the regualtions that kill the manufactororors.
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Jack_Berry
Moderator Emeritus
its really simple when someone asks what do americans want in a car, they want a honda or nissan or such. why? the auto maker makes a good prouct. subaru has a niche with wagons and 4wd. no american competition. the 3 have to put out the same kind of cars. dcx cancelled the neon, which sold in the honda civic range, to make a small suv for the market place. only time will tell if that was wise but dcx sure sold a ton of neons.
i had two chrysler mini vans. a 93 grand caravan fairly loaded. 5 miles from home the tranny went bye bye at 101k miles. i couldn't go over 12mpg before the trans stopped spinning. each time i had to stop the car, turn off the engine and restart and creep. took me almost an hour to get home. why not park and call the wife? she was 110 miles away in another city for a conference the next day. that was before i had a cell phone. then i got a 98 town and country and one day at 98K miles the trans ruptured, mixed with the coolant and cost almost 3K for replacing. have you heard of a honda doing that?
so recently i bought an 02 jetta diesel. its made in mexico. i like the car. like the feel of the ride and got it for 14k with 42K miles sweet. where are the siimilar american cars? there are none. v dub has a niche market that will get bigger come 2008 when they, mb, bmw and honda will be offering new diesel cars. the 5 spd version gets 50mpg on the hwy in the 04 and older cars. the 05 and 06 cars get 60. my 4 spd auto gets a low of 35 in the city and has returned 46 on the hwy keeping my ego in check and the car on cruise.
i wish there were american cars like that but american car companies refuse to move with what americans want. they want to build "their" cars and to blazes with the tides and the wind.
gm cross sells trucks and they seem to be doing okay with the chevy/gmc,caddy vehivles. i don't hear them losing money like ford is or chrysler with the new nitro/aspen/commander series of 4wd suvs. how does one company sell the same kind of product and do well and others don't? remember the shockwave the taurus made back in 86? there has not been a car since that had as much impact in the marketplace. it is that new kind of thinking that brings in sales. not retro t-birds, gt 40's, 45K mustangs or redone camaro or challenger versions.
as far as chrysler going away and daimler taking over it already has. the 300, the charger, the challenger, new sebring and crossfire are bn chassis and also have an mb engine option as well as a chrysler option. the v6 is german the v8 american. the supercharged engine is german the other is american. in 2010 dcx will have a 2.2 diesel to sell in the minivan. engine made in germany. lets face it. our manufacturing facilities are not getting newer and all the import companies are putting up new facilities.
Jack Berry
i had two chrysler mini vans. a 93 grand caravan fairly loaded. 5 miles from home the tranny went bye bye at 101k miles. i couldn't go over 12mpg before the trans stopped spinning. each time i had to stop the car, turn off the engine and restart and creep. took me almost an hour to get home. why not park and call the wife? she was 110 miles away in another city for a conference the next day. that was before i had a cell phone. then i got a 98 town and country and one day at 98K miles the trans ruptured, mixed with the coolant and cost almost 3K for replacing. have you heard of a honda doing that?
so recently i bought an 02 jetta diesel. its made in mexico. i like the car. like the feel of the ride and got it for 14k with 42K miles sweet. where are the siimilar american cars? there are none. v dub has a niche market that will get bigger come 2008 when they, mb, bmw and honda will be offering new diesel cars. the 5 spd version gets 50mpg on the hwy in the 04 and older cars. the 05 and 06 cars get 60. my 4 spd auto gets a low of 35 in the city and has returned 46 on the hwy keeping my ego in check and the car on cruise.
i wish there were american cars like that but american car companies refuse to move with what americans want. they want to build "their" cars and to blazes with the tides and the wind.
gm cross sells trucks and they seem to be doing okay with the chevy/gmc,caddy vehivles. i don't hear them losing money like ford is or chrysler with the new nitro/aspen/commander series of 4wd suvs. how does one company sell the same kind of product and do well and others don't? remember the shockwave the taurus made back in 86? there has not been a car since that had as much impact in the marketplace. it is that new kind of thinking that brings in sales. not retro t-birds, gt 40's, 45K mustangs or redone camaro or challenger versions.
as far as chrysler going away and daimler taking over it already has. the 300, the charger, the challenger, new sebring and crossfire are bn chassis and also have an mb engine option as well as a chrysler option. the v6 is german the v8 american. the supercharged engine is german the other is american. in 2010 dcx will have a 2.2 diesel to sell in the minivan. engine made in germany. lets face it. our manufacturing facilities are not getting newer and all the import companies are putting up new facilities.
Jack Berry
Dog_House2691
Seasoned Expediter
I spent 25 years at Ford and then Visteon at Rawsonville,I know exactly what happened,first executives sat back and watched Toyota comming for 25 years and did nothing! and the UAW would not change! they have no one but themselves to blame.The UAW thought for years that voting for Democrats would solve there Problems.The UAW is Falling and Falling Fast...
Good point Dog House. The Big 3(yes Greg, I know, but for all practical purposes...)were fat and happy. When the tide began shifting they laid a guilt trip on us(Buy American! Your neighbor depends on you!)instead of getting busy. Now, the Japanese Big 3 are building plants here and turning out cars with greater U.S. content than the other guys. The profit goes overseas, but the money spent to get that profit stays in this country more so than the other guys. Maybe that's not such a bad trade off?
unorthodoxneon
Expert Expediter
Well being the American car lover that i am. I love arguing with people that are "buy honda/toyota/nissan for reliability"
Well it seems that the trends are starting to equal out. Alof the hons/toys/niss are having issues with their "reliablilty" since alot of their products are build here in the states. Built in america isnt as good as it use to be, workers now dont care, so what if they put something together wrong, they still get thier paycheck. Even in the non-union sites. Thats why alot of us is sending stuff to canada and mexico, they get better work out of them. They are having the challenger, camaro, and stuff built in canada cause they know the work quality is better. Most people who say hon/toy/nis is better is cause they said "well my 1970 civic is reliable as hell" well has anyone said their 2000+ honda is reliable? nope.
Sorry for the ranting. But the ignorance of americans is leading to the decline of the US
Well it seems that the trends are starting to equal out. Alof the hons/toys/niss are having issues with their "reliablilty" since alot of their products are build here in the states. Built in america isnt as good as it use to be, workers now dont care, so what if they put something together wrong, they still get thier paycheck. Even in the non-union sites. Thats why alot of us is sending stuff to canada and mexico, they get better work out of them. They are having the challenger, camaro, and stuff built in canada cause they know the work quality is better. Most people who say hon/toy/nis is better is cause they said "well my 1970 civic is reliable as hell" well has anyone said their 2000+ honda is reliable? nope.
Sorry for the ranting. But the ignorance of americans is leading to the decline of the US
greg334
Veteran Expediter
Unorthodoxneon
I would not in any way call it ignorance but consumer buying habits.
When I was in college, my econ prof was the automotive economy advisor for Blanchard (Michigan governor) and he told us a few things I later confirmed.
The Japanese car companies;
• under priced their cars to the point of a loss on each car to gain market share.
• built cars to their standards, not ours to make it a selling point. Their quality control system is more of cultural than it is business.
• did not have to deal with a union that was (is) against the company but rather with a union (yes they have unions) who worked with the company to the betterment of all involved. I think that they learned a lot just watching the attitude of the US worker and when I applied for an IT job at an Japanese supplier, I was asked directly if I worked for any US auto company because they felt that they a US autoworker could not be trained to their philosophy.
• decided that once they get a foot hold into the US market, they will eventually lower the quality to increase the profit because we are used to sub standard quality (this has been a well documented and subject to a bunch of SAE meetings). They're building plants here further eliminates cost for them and using US labor is somewhat cheaper than Japanese labor because of the flexibility of the workforce and their ability to dump the workforce in case of failure (sounds stupid but much of Japanese manufacturing has moved off shore).
• never had recalls on their products, ever until recently. To build a product and then to have a recall to fix something causes a loss of face with the company and they would not and can not tolerate that. When their cars were built in Japan, they would treat a problem as a serious thing. For example Toyota had a problem with corollas that was discovered during a quality check. The cars were built in Japan and shipped to the US by a ship. The problem was that these cars would land in the US in a couple days and needed to be fixed as soon as they hit the shores here in the US so not to delay their shipment to the customers. They chartered a plane and sent over 75 people, with tools and parts to the docks in California to fix the problem. Never mind that the cost to have 75 people with tools and parts just to fix the problem was a lot of money, but the cost was outrageous just to charter the plane illustrated their seriousness of their need to fix it instead of the dealer. The problem was the heater control was binding and they were not sure how many cars had the problem so they fix the entire production run instead. They no longer do anything like this because our expectation level is low in comparison to a Japanese consumer.
Knowing people at Ford, Nippondenso and a few other auto companies, I have been told repeatedly that the Japanese companies have lowered their standards since coming to our shore to reflect the American’s expected quality level.
So after 30 years of this stuff, the American car companies (the two remaining that is) has yet to learn from the Japanese companies. Ford for one has just gotten around to putting into their manufacturing system flexible manufacturing. It amazing me that both GM and Ford has not done this a while ago. Beside, I made a comment that they claim to reach into the past to move forward into the future. Well history for Ford was to lower the price of the car and control the dealer system closely to provide sales. They have had a large inventory, so I would say sell it near cost and get the dealer system together to get vehicles moving- it has been proven with other companies in the past (like 90 years ago) moving the product helps the stock price and attracts investors.
Oh well, I hear D-C people crying now about the layoffs so I am off to start my Mexican Dodge, later…
I would not in any way call it ignorance but consumer buying habits.
When I was in college, my econ prof was the automotive economy advisor for Blanchard (Michigan governor) and he told us a few things I later confirmed.
The Japanese car companies;
• under priced their cars to the point of a loss on each car to gain market share.
• built cars to their standards, not ours to make it a selling point. Their quality control system is more of cultural than it is business.
• did not have to deal with a union that was (is) against the company but rather with a union (yes they have unions) who worked with the company to the betterment of all involved. I think that they learned a lot just watching the attitude of the US worker and when I applied for an IT job at an Japanese supplier, I was asked directly if I worked for any US auto company because they felt that they a US autoworker could not be trained to their philosophy.
• decided that once they get a foot hold into the US market, they will eventually lower the quality to increase the profit because we are used to sub standard quality (this has been a well documented and subject to a bunch of SAE meetings). They're building plants here further eliminates cost for them and using US labor is somewhat cheaper than Japanese labor because of the flexibility of the workforce and their ability to dump the workforce in case of failure (sounds stupid but much of Japanese manufacturing has moved off shore).
• never had recalls on their products, ever until recently. To build a product and then to have a recall to fix something causes a loss of face with the company and they would not and can not tolerate that. When their cars were built in Japan, they would treat a problem as a serious thing. For example Toyota had a problem with corollas that was discovered during a quality check. The cars were built in Japan and shipped to the US by a ship. The problem was that these cars would land in the US in a couple days and needed to be fixed as soon as they hit the shores here in the US so not to delay their shipment to the customers. They chartered a plane and sent over 75 people, with tools and parts to the docks in California to fix the problem. Never mind that the cost to have 75 people with tools and parts just to fix the problem was a lot of money, but the cost was outrageous just to charter the plane illustrated their seriousness of their need to fix it instead of the dealer. The problem was the heater control was binding and they were not sure how many cars had the problem so they fix the entire production run instead. They no longer do anything like this because our expectation level is low in comparison to a Japanese consumer.
Knowing people at Ford, Nippondenso and a few other auto companies, I have been told repeatedly that the Japanese companies have lowered their standards since coming to our shore to reflect the American’s expected quality level.
So after 30 years of this stuff, the American car companies (the two remaining that is) has yet to learn from the Japanese companies. Ford for one has just gotten around to putting into their manufacturing system flexible manufacturing. It amazing me that both GM and Ford has not done this a while ago. Beside, I made a comment that they claim to reach into the past to move forward into the future. Well history for Ford was to lower the price of the car and control the dealer system closely to provide sales. They have had a large inventory, so I would say sell it near cost and get the dealer system together to get vehicles moving- it has been proven with other companies in the past (like 90 years ago) moving the product helps the stock price and attracts investors.
Oh well, I hear D-C people crying now about the layoffs so I am off to start my Mexican Dodge, later…