Visteon to close Connersville, IN plant Sept 1

Lawrence

Founder
Staff member
People will learn - if you buy a Honda or a Toyota, this is going to happen. If people are okay with this - buy more of them.

If you don't like this - buy American.

Lawrence,
Expediters Online.com

Music soothes the savage beast - unless it's polka.


Going to church makes you a Christian about as much as standing in the garage makes you a car

You can build a man a fire and keep him warm for a day or you can set a man on fire and keep him warm for the rest of his life.


ACHTUNG!!! Das machine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfuseen und corkenpoppen mit spitzensparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken by das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets. Relaxen und vatch das blinkenlights




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Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Buy American? Are there any cars that are American made anymore? I've taken a lot of parts from the Mexican border to Ford, Toyota, Honda.

Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day.
Teach him to use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.
 

Crazynuff

Veteran Expediter
>People will learn - if you buy a Honda or a Toyota, this is
>going to happen. If people are okay with this - buy more of
>them.
>
>If you don't like this - buy American.
>
>Lawrence,
>Expediters Online.com
>
>Music soothes the savage beast - unless it's polka.
>

>
>Going to church makes you a Christian about as much as
>standing in the garage makes you a car

>
> You can build a man a fire and keep him warm for a day
>or you can set a man on fire and keep him warm for the rest
>of his life.
>

>
> ACHTUNG!!! Das machine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und
>mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk,
>blowenfuseen und corkenpoppen mit spitzensparken. Ist nicht
>fur gewerken by das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren
>keepen hands in das pockets. Relaxen und vatch das
>blinkenlights
>

>
>
>
>-----------------------------------------
>Thanks For Visiting EO!
>
>
>
>http://www.expeditersonline.com/hotnews/sterling_eo_forum.jpg
>
>
>Please Help Us Get The Word
>Out About Expediters Online.com!

>-----------------------------------------

So what will be the truck of choice when Freightliner builds their new plant in Mexico giving 1600 Mexicans jobs ? BTW the new Toyota Tundra is supposedly made of all american parts .
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Lawrence,
As much as I would love to support the auto industry with the two remaining US car companies, I simply can't.

Starting with GM and their recent "crisis" that never really was, they have shifted a lot of things off shore under the guise of the crisis. They have been in Mexico for a while to import here but now look at China and other places to build products instead of building them here and shipping them there. No excuse for this.

Ford needs to get leaders who are truly agressive to help the company get out of its mess. I do believe that an Iacoca who worked for stock options is the best type to get and there are a few around. Ford claims to look to the past for a path to the future but failed to understand that there are simple solutions to the problems like purging the inventories at cost, and go back to basics - having three truck lines competing within the company is a bad thing or even having three different product lines with several cross overs can be a problem (the company was built on one car not thirty different cars). One solution I really like to see is the elimination of the dealer franschise and more or less a direct from the factory sales to the consumer with the dealer profit cut completly out of the picture and a reduction in price to compete with the foreign products. This will also put the customer first with a lot of issues, like dealers screwing customers on service and warentee related issues.
 

Lawrence

Founder
Staff member
Buying Toyota or Hondas = Less Freight. Period.

Lawrence,
Expediters Online.com

Music soothes the savage beast - unless it's polka.


Going to church makes you a Christian about as much as standing in the garage makes you a car

You can build a man a fire and keep him warm for a day or you can set a man on fire and keep him warm for the rest of his life.


ACHTUNG!!! Das machine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfuseen und corkenpoppen mit spitzensparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken by das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets. Relaxen und vatch das blinkenlights




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Lawrence

Founder
Staff member
I should clarify - my statement isn’t' about brand loyalty or even patriotism it’s about the freight you haul.

It doesn’t take a rocket science to understand that when Ford or GM do well – Freight is plentiful. When Toyota and Honda do well – freight is slower.

The fact is US based auto manufactures – build more in the US and Canada. That is an undeniable and undisputed fact.

What that means to you – today, is that you could be a benefactor of that need to move auto parts from point “A†to “B†or free other freight for you to haul. From vendor to manufacture – they all need trucks to move those parts.

So let’s do the math.

Buy American = More freight.

Buy Japanese = Less freight.

For Japanese manufacturers their major components such as engines, transmissions are imported by ship from Asia – then assembled here in places like Georgetown, Kentucky – then they call them “American Madeâ€. It’s simply not true.

Unless you’re in the overseas shipping business – buying foreign is bad for America, it’s bad for trucking and it’s bad for expediting.

http://www.tfhrc.gov/pubrds/06jan/images/sed5.jpg

Finally, I believe in open market principles – and I support your right to purchase any vehicle you choose just like I support someone’s right to walk off a cliff – if they choose. But it doesn’t mean its right or makes sense.


Lawrence,
Expediters Online.com

Music soothes the savage beast - unless it's polka.


Going to church makes you a Christian about as much as standing in the garage makes you a car

You can build a man a fire and keep him warm for a day or you can set a man on fire and keep him warm for the rest of his life.


ACHTUNG!!! Das machine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfuseen und corkenpoppen mit spitzensparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken by das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets. Relaxen und vatch das blinkenlights




-----------------------------------------
Thanks For Visiting EO!



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Please Help Us Get The Word
Out About Expediters Online.com!

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MSinger

Expert Expediter
I can only speak for myself, but in 2006 I hauled more freight to Honda (Marysville,OH & Lincoln, AL),Toyota (Georgetown, KY and Princeton, IN),Nissan (Smyrna,TN) and Subaru (Lafayette, IN) than I did for the Big 3. I would almost rather go to a "foreign" plant due to the difference in attitude.
I hate to see the American companies losing ground but they usually have themselves to blame. I keep hearing how it is bad to buy Japanese products even if they are built here because all the profits go back to Japan. If I buy American all the profits go to the fat cats and to give million dollar buyouts (rewards) to CEO's who have nearly bankrupted the company not to mention the plants they are building in Mexico. It just doesn't make sense to me.
In 2000 my wife and I bought a minivan. We actually wanted a Honda Odyssey (Lincoln,AL) but there was a waiting list as they were still fairly new. We ended up with a Chevy Venture (Doraville,GA). Both models stickered for approx $28,000 new. Today my Venture with 128,000 miles has a KBB value of $3650 but the Odyssey with the same mileage has a KBB value of $5680 or a 33% higher value than the Chevy.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
"For Japanese manufacturers their major components such as engines, transmissions are imported by ship from Asia – then assembled here in places like Georgetown, Kentucky – then they call them “American Madeâ€. It’s simply not true."

10-15 years ago that was true. Today, not so much.

Bodine Aluminum in Jackson, TN (founded in 1912 and became a Toyota subsidiary in 1990) pumps out nearly 1.5 million engine blocks for Toyota each year. The Bodine plants in Jackson and in Troy and St Louis, MO also produce aluminum cylinder heads, blocks and a host of other castings for Toyota, including more than a quarter million transmission housings.

Toyota Motor Manufacturing, West Virginia (TMMWV) produces more than 600,000 transmissions, including the gears, for Toyota.

Most of the engines and transmissions above are shipped directly to the Georgetown, KY and Princeton, IN plants.

Toyota Motor Manufacturing Alabama (TMMAL) is online to produce 130,000 4.0 liter V6 engines, 120,000 4.7 liter V8 engines, 150,000 new 5.7 liter V8 engines annually. The total investment is $490 million. February 2, 2007 marked the production of the first 5.7 liter V8 at the plant. TMMAL supplies V8 engines for the Tundra full-size pickup and Sequoia full-size sport utility vehicle produced in Indiana. The plant also supplies V6 engines for Tacoma pickups produced in California and Mexico as well as the Tundra. The new 5.7 liter V8 engines will be used for the all new Tundra built in San Antonio, Texas and Princeton, Indiana.

In 2006 Toyota produced 1,553,790 vehicles using 1,428,662 engines that were manufactured in the US using 100% US manufactured parts. The remaining 125,128 engines that were not made with 100% US parts were made with 75% US parts, 25% of the parts being imported from Mexico and Canada (in order to meet production schedules).

Beginning in 2007, the Subaru Indiana Automotive, Inc. (SIA) subsidiary of Toyota will begin producing the hybrid version of the Camry for the first time using primarily US-made parts.


The above information came directly out of a shareholder's report.

Toyota, Ford, GM, Honda and all the other large automakers are all global companies with shareholders all over the globe. But any car and the money is spread all over the place.

As for freight, Toyota has learned that the closer the parts manufacturing is to the selling point, the better they can control potential problems and make changes. Toyota (and other manufacturers) have had several instances where small, easily fixable, but critical defects in parts were delayed in their discovery due to weeks in transit from overseas. As a result, they are ramping up heavily to produce here, build here, sell here. Other Asian companies are beginning to do the same.

Toyota is clearly not US-based, yet the vehicles it sells here are, by and large, produced here. And the percentage of that is growing even higher each year. Can the same be said for the so-called US-based manufacturers? While it is true that US-based manufacturers (both of them) build more in the US than foreign-based manufacturers do, what constitutes US-based is becoming very blurred.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Ford is lost with their domestic vehicle line and their efforts seems to be really lost - now changing the name of the 500 to tarrus is the latest news. I point to the fact that Ford was built on a single car with an agressive leader, something that they now need.

GM on the other hand has stated that they have sold more cars in China than in the US market. I think that GM's arrogence is part of the problem and can't see why things could be so bad for GM with a world market that they are making money with.

With D-C's announcment of only 10K being let go, the bigger news is the need to work 'closer' with Mercedes. It was only time that this would happen and I think that we will soon see the Chyrsler of Daimler Chrysler dissapear and the name of Daimler Benz returns. Their problem is also a aging product line,nothign innovating and copying (in the case of jeep) other companies products.

My father was going to buy a new van. He saw an add for a Town and Country for (I think) $28,000 and went to the dealer. First the sales staff ignored him for 10 minutes, seeing that there was no one in the dealership except him I find this common here. Then after he presented the ad to the only sales person who talked to him, he is told that is an employee discount price and walked away. I saw the ad, no where does it say employee discount so I told him go to the KIA dealer and look at their product, which he did. He stepped in the dealer and had four sales people walk up to him and asked him if they can help him. The biggest thing I hate is the employee discount and how it is jammed down our throuts. It is bad enough to hear about the poor autoworkers in this area but to see the outragious discounts they get ($95 a month for a lease when normal people pay $185 a month), I can't feel sorry for one of them. - sorry for the rant.
 

ACE

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
Lawrence is right if you buy foreign name plates you are helping to reduce the kind of freight we haul. We need to support Ford and GM.
Maybe this web site will help some understand how little foreign auto companies actually contribute to the U.S. economy.
www.levelfieldinstitute.org

So if you would like the auto industry to go the way the textile,footwear and electronics industries have continue to buy foreign autos and trucks.

Japan,Germany,France,China,S.Korea do not want us to be the economic or military superpower we are they would much rather see us as an equal. We need AMERICAN pride to stop them from making their wishes come true.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
American pride can only take you so far when you're forced to take pride in an inferior product. Focus the pride where it belongs and take pride in building a better mousetrap, and in building it cheaper than the competition.

I have all kinds of pride in America, but my pride is gonna be swallowed easy when it comes to paying inflated prices for inferior workmanship and products. That's nothing more than subsidizing an industry and rewarding the mediocre.

Foreign automakers have beaten the Big Three at their own game, and unless they like losing, the Big Two that are left had better get it in gear. This "take Pride in America" disguise for "oh, woe is me" stuff is wearing thin. The things that Ford and GM do used to work, but no longer does. They sat back and watched the American public pay lower prices for better cars, made by non-Americans, and were absolutely shocked by it. They're still in shock. Instead of pulling themselves up by their bootstraps and fighting back with better products, they try to lay the blame on someone else, on the American public, by crying "Buy American" and suggesting that you're not patriotic unless you spend your money foolishly on higher priced, inferior goods.

In order to compete here, using American workers, Ford and GM, and their suppliers, and most importantly the unions, will have to institute some practices that are very different from the things they have done in the past. The companies and the unions have worked in concert to produce a situation that is inflexible, rewards the status quo of mediocrity, and that is pricing them out of the world and domestic markets. Unless they are willing to make the tough decisions, it'll only get worse. Oh, woe is me.
 

ACE

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
Buy foreign but do not complain when you have less loads to haul.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Ace Said; "Japan,Germany,France,China,S.Korea do not want us to be the economic or military superpower we are they would much rather see us as an equal. We need AMERICAN pride to stop them from making their wishes come true."

I don't really think that this is really true, I think that Japan,China, S.Korea and many other countries want us to remain as strong as possible because they can sell stuff to us. China will have a real problem if we became a third world country.

The problem lies with the EU, especially France who has protected their markets to the point that they have told many companies they don't want them in France. Germany has been able to stem the tide of foreign by price fixing and taxes. See the EU laws and agreements seem to override the WTO agreements.

I went to the site levelfieldinstitute.org and it has a few things that just are not true, one is that D-C is treated like a domestic car company, which it is not. It is a German car company, period. The other thing is the employment numbers for all other car companies combined are really low, I think that Toyota maybe one company that surpasses the numbers stated.
 

ACE

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
Greg,
Daimeler Chrysler is a German company like you stated that is why I do not mention them as American. I believe the organization looks at them differently because they have retirees from the old Chrysler days.

Do you dispute that Ford and GM are responsible for more supplier and manufacturing jobs than the foreign car companies in the US.

Also Dealerships are not owned by the manufactures they are independent business so the manufacture can not be held responsible for how a sales person at a dealership treats anyone. That is like saying a FEDEX C.C. is responsible for every action that one of their I/C's makes.

Ford has a strong tradition and has weathered other storms. They will survive this down turn.

Like I said buy the foreign vehicles continue to send money back to countries who do not wish us well. This is your right as an American.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Ace I see your point but.....

Ace Said; “Daimeler Chrysler is a German company like you stated that is why I do not mention them as American. I believe the organization looks at them differently because they have retirees from the old Chrysler days.â€

I understand that but living in this dump of an area, everyone thinks that D-C is still an American company, you just have to hear them on the radio. The thing is since I came back home, I heard more crying about this issue on TV and the radio than ever before. One problem is that everyone is either living in the past or in denial, needs to get with the program and get rid of the government we have here to get people back to work. Our governor (if you want to call her that) has now a no worker left behind program where some of these people who are being laid off now will get two years free schooling – but that is another rant.

Ace Said; “Do you dispute that Ford and GM are responsible for more supplier and manufacturing jobs than the foreign car companies in the US.â€

Well I am inclined to think that with the plants that are being closed by the suppliers to the US car company(s) and their own plants, that the foreign car companies are gaining if not surpassing the amount of jobs being created or filled to keep the companies supplied. I think, I may be wrong that Toyota directly employees about 70,000 which according to that website is 30,000 less than they claim that all the foreign car companies employ but I may have read it wrong. The issue at hand is with the spin offs from GM and Ford (visteon and delphi), Toyota and Honda, among others has not followed that disastrous move.

Ace Said; “Also Dealerships are not owned by the manufactures they are independent business so the manufacture can not be held responsible for how a sales person at a dealership treats anyone. That is like saying a FEDEX C.C. is responsible for every action that one of their I/C's makes.â€

Well they are actually franchises, not independent businesses, they have a contractual obligation to fulfill the requirements of the manufacture in order to sell the product and that the companies assume some responsibility for their actions, oh and unfortunately they are representing the manufacture completely to the consumer. I think this is where the departure begins between the domestic auto company(s) and the foreign auto companies, dealer quality. Now this does not mean that every dealer are on both sides of the fence falls under the same category, good or bad but overall there is a difference. But anyway, the idea I presented is to go back to a factory direct sales, where the dealer profit is eliminated and the savings is passed onto the consumer. Also as I am thinking of it, both GM and Ford need to do the same exact thing that the Japanese did in the 70’s, under price their cars to gain market share but they won't. The elimination of the dealer franchise will give them the ability to do this.

Ace Said; “Ford has a strong tradition and has weathered other storms. They will survive this down turn.â€

Yes I agree but when they had a crisis in 1915, 1927, 1933, 1937, 1941, 1949, 1953, 1957, and so on, they had a strong leadership and a strong brand. For example in 1927 they shut down completly, laid off most of the workers (which many were not hired back) and when they introduce the Model A, people took off work, stood in the rain and cold weather to catch a glimps of the car. They are a shadow of what they used to be and this is not just a down turn. I see a problem internally and with the product line but I also see a problem with the direction that they are going in, which is in circles. The internal problem has to do with management not listening about streamlining manufacturing, something I hear a lot lately. The product line is what I said before and the direction is unsure for the stock holders and their customers.

Ace Said; “Like I said buy the foreign vehicles continue to send money back to countries who do not wish us well.â€

Well yes but look at it this way; the money going away does not matter, what matters is employment (something that my state won’t see for a long time). I ask if GM still held a 33% market share, do you think that they would still have the work force here building cars and shipping them off to China? I don’t think so. I honestly think that they would still be pursuing the same path they are today, closing plants and building in Mexico, china and Brazil. The difference between Toyota and GM is that even if Toyota sales were flat, they still would build plants here to eliminate the transportation cost of the product and increase their profits in the long run. The difference has always been in the forward, over the horizon thinking that many of these companies do which GM and Ford don’t do. You should read Toyota’s annual stock holders report and compare that with GM or Ford’s. When Chrysler rebuilt Dodge City, they allegedly built the Ram there. But in 1995 my first dodge Cummins diesel was not built there but in Mexico, so was the 97 and the 98.
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
Hey..........the wife happens to like her Town and Country. I actually like it on a short road trip.:)








Davekc
owner
22 years
PantherII
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