Vet May Lose 'Honorable' Status Over Protest

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Talk about an over sensitive bunch of cronies.

By HEATHER HOLLINGSWORTH
AP
KANSAS CITY, Mo. (May 31) - An Iraq war veteran could lose his honorable discharge status after being photographed wearing fatigues at an anti-war protest.

Marine Cpl. Adam Kokesh and other veterans marked the fourth anniversary of the war in Iraq in April by wearing their uniforms - with military insignia removed - and roaming around the nation's capital on a mock patrol.

After Kokesh was identified in a photo cutline in The Washington Post, a superior officer sent him a letter saying he might have violated a rule prohibiting troops from wearing uniforms without authorization.

Kokesh, a member of Iraq Veterans Against the War, responded with an obscenity.

Now, a military panel has been scheduled to meet with Kokesh on Monday to decide whether his discharge status should be changed from "honorable" to "other than honorable."

"This is clearly a case of selective prosecution and intimidation of veterans who speak out against the war," Kokesh said. "To suggest that while as a veteran you don't have freedom of speech is absurd."

Kokesh is part of the Individual Ready Reserve, a segment of the reserves that consists mainly of those who have left active duty but still have time remaining on their eight-year military obligations.

His attorney, Mike Lebowitz, said Kokesh's IRR status ends June 18. He said at least three other veterans have been investigated because of their involvement at demonstrations.

Kokesh, 25, enlisted in the Marines while still attending high school in New Mexico. He was a reservist in an artillery unit, assigned to the November Battery, 5th Battalion, 14th Regiment of the 4th Division based out of Pico Rivera, Calif., near Los Angeles.

Kokesh said he had reservations about Iraq even before the United States invaded, but wanted to go there to help rebuild schools and mosques after Saddam Hussein's regime was toppled. He even learned Arabic.

He said he grew disillusioned with the war during his first tour, and now believes there is no way for the country to achieve the rule of law with a foreign military imposing martial law.

He was supposed to go to Iraq a second time, but was demoted from sergeant to corporal and not allowed to return after it was learned that he brought a pistol back after his first tour in 2004.

Kokesh argues that he was not representing the military at the protest in Washington, and he made that clear by removing his name tag and other military insignia from his uniform.

Lebowitz said Kokesh technically is a civilian unless recalled to active duty and had the right to be disrespectful in his response to the officer. He called the proceedings against Kokesh highly unusual and said the military usually seeks to change a veteran's discharge status only if a crime has been committed.

If his discharge status is changed, Kokesh said he could lose some health benefits and be forced to repay about $10,800 he received to obtain his undergraduate degree on the GI Bill.

Kokesh said he holds no ill will toward the Marines.

"I love the Marine Corps," he said. "I always have loved the Marine Corps, and that is why I'm particularly offended to see it being used for political ends."
 

terryandrene

Veteran Expediter
Safety & Compliance
US Coast Guard
The facts seem to be that Cpl Kokesh is still a Marine until the expiration of his IRR status and he was wearing his Marine Corps issued uniform during a protest in Washington. It also is reported that he and a group of similarly clad veterans were portraying a military manuever during a political gathering and they (he) was disrespectful to a person they knew to be a senior officer.

When Cpl Kokesh enlisted in the Marine Corps, he stated an agreement to comply with all of the conditions of suitable conduct and the terms of the Uniform Code of Military Justice. In exchange for fulfilling his enlistment contract, which was in effect for eight years, he would be afforded all the rights, benefits and privileges of a Marine Corps veteran. Active participation in political rallies, either pro or con the Government's current policies, is generally prohibited, particularly in uniform, with our without insignia. The display of disrespect to a senior officer is also a violtion of the UCMJ. Veterans who wish to reap the benefits of the military, such as tuition assistance, must also comply with the rules and regulations or risk loss of all or some of those benefits.

The facts that are missing from this story are any indications if these military members were carrying signs or orally participating in the protest. It would appear so, or they would not have drawn the attention of their service. I trust that the board of investigation will consider all of the details surrounding Cpl Kokesh's involvement in the protest before recommending a course of action.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Since he was already discharged from active duty he was to say a civilian excerising his rights. And the fatigues anyone can buy from an Army surplus store.
Me thinks his response to a senior officer probably set this whole matter up. I am of the impression that a well trained Marine whether on duty, off duty, retired whatever would always be respectful to a senior officer. It speaks of ones character.
 

terryandrene

Veteran Expediter
Safety & Compliance
US Coast Guard
Perhaps I wasn't clear. As a civilian, Koresh has the right to peaceful assembly at an anti-political rally. As a member of the military, albeit IRR, Cpl Koresh does not have that right. At least that's the way it was during my military career.
 

mrgoodtude

Not a Member
He should have started his retort "with all due respect sir".
I don't think his response was a testament to his character.
I served in the Army and have always been of the old school when it comes to higher ranking officials whether officer or non commissioned. I was taken aback by my sons disdain with his command and had no problem letting him know when he told me his response to an inquiry about his attitude.
His response to me was Dad just because they have more rank does not make them right or better than me and of course I had to point out they are still your superior officer.
In short junior bought into the Army way of life embracing discipline, dedication to unit and country graduating with honors but he didn't buy into the gray area of the program where superiors abuse authority.
He didn't accept superiors sleeping with enlisted as acceptable or to simplify even further being held to a standard that his superiors could not hold them selves to.
I say if the young man mentioned served and desires to make a statement he has the American right to do so as my son has the right question abuses within his unit.
Sheep have no honor they are merely sheep.
I am proud of my son and have learned something from his character.
My grandfather Retired MSG, Purple Heart, Bronze Star recipient serving in WW2 and Vietnam agrees.
 

Bugsy Siegel

Seasoned Expediter
>Perhaps I wasn't clear. As a civilian, Koresh has the right
>to peaceful assembly at an anti-political rally. As a
>member of the military, albeit IRR, Cpl Koresh does not have
>that right. At least that's the way it was during my
>military career.

Terry is 100% correct. This guy wasn't a civilian, he was inactive reserve, which, while inactive, is *still* a duty status!

I did 10 in the Navy and I have to say that while most officers had their act together, SOME of them had a holier-than-thou attitude and wore the chip on their shoulder quite prominently, OFTEN abusing their status as officers. Interestingly, I noticed that the "you will respect me because I'm an officer and you have no choice" crowd came from the Naval Academy, while the rest of the officers who went through a civilian education or were mavericks (former enlisted turned officer) seemed to be of a more down to earth stock, and I have to admit: most were significantly sharper than I, hands down.

And what the heck is the deal with these clowns anyway? No one has been forced to join the military, if you can't hack it, then get out; better yet, don't join my military in the first place, that life is hard enough without fools crying about how they don't have to do what they are told to do, and crying about how they think the war is this, and officers are that. Stay home!!!

Anyway, this guy obviously had no respect for his uniform or the officer who was present, so why would he give a crap if his discharge status were to be changed. He created a dishonorable situation, he should get the "reward" associated with his actions!
 

Aviator

Expert Expediter
Concur about the IRR status.

In addition, if he thought he was going over there to "Help rebuild schools, and mosques" as a Marine Artillery crewman he is fooling himself. Marines mostly have a couple of jobs, to kill people and break things.

Sounds like to me he got what he deserved and/or asked for.

Aviator
 

Aviator

Expert Expediter
>Perhaps I wasn't clear. As a civilian, Koresh has the right
>to peaceful assembly at an anti-political rally. As a
>member of the military, albeit IRR, Cpl Koresh does not have
>that right. At least that's the way it was during my
>military career.

Agree. if that is what he wanted to do, we here where I work would call that the "Wrong execution of the right idea".

Aviator
 

mrgoodtude

Not a Member
Like I said I believe in the old school as well..
You don't question authority but as I read it he is no longer subject to articles of the UCMJ.
He is against the war for his own reasons and if you are of open mind can read the questionable e-mail at this link.
http://www.ivaw.org/node/639
You may not agree with his agenda or his method but he is an American
that served.
I might add that contrary to popular opinion he is not the only veteran against the Iraq War.
 

Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
But he is still on IRR. That's Inactive Ready Reserve. They tell you keep your nose clean cause you're still subject to the UCMJ. When I finished my IRR status, I recieved a letter basically stating that I had no further obligation to the military. This guy sounds like a trouble maker, so I don't doubt he's got what's coming to him. Tho I don't agree with the decision to go after him for rallying, he shouldn't have had a uniform on. He definitely shouldn't have mouthed off to a superior. And he should've done his homework before playing the protestor.

-Vampire Super Slooth Trucker!!!
 

Aviator

Expert Expediter
And as a veteran, he still falls under certain regulations. One of which if he chooses to wear the uniform is the Marine equivalent of AR-670-1 Wear and Appearance of Army Uniforms and Insignia.

30–4. Wear of the uniform by former members of the Army

a. Unless qualified under another provision of this regulation, or under the provisions of section 772, title 10, United States Code (10 USC 772), former members of the Army may wear the uniform if they served honorably during a declared or undeclared war, and if their most recent service was terminated under honorable conditions. Personnel who qualify under these conditions will wear the Army uniform in the highest grade they held during such war service, in
accordance with 10 USC 772.

b. The uniform is authorized for wear only for the following ceremonial occasions, and when traveling to and from the ceremony or function. Uniforms for these occasions are restricted to service and dress uniforms; the BDU and physical fitness uniforms will not be worn.

(1) When attending military funerals, memorial services, weddings, inaugurals, and other occasions of ceremony.

(2) When attending parades on national or state holidays, or other patriotic parades or ceremonies in which any active or reserve United States military unit is taking part. Wear of the Army uniform at any other time, or for any other purpose than stated above, is prohibited.

I cannot find the regulation for the Marines, but I am almost certain it would read about the same as the Army regulation. He broke this regulation, and he will pay the consequences.

Aviator
 

Aviator

Expert Expediter
Found this regarding Marines...

Question

Can my Marine Nephew wear his Marine Uniform at the Anti War protest coming up this June?

I told him "Yes he Can". The USA stands for freedom so he should be OK with marching and holding a sign saying "Stop the Illegal war in Iraq". We are trying to get as many as possible ( Military people ) to protest with our group.

Answer
It is ILLEGAL for an active duty military member to wear his uniform to such a gathering. Here is the regulation (Taken from Chapter One of the manual of GENERAL UNIFORM REGULATIONS, Section 4).

(1) Members of the Armed Forces (including retired members and members of reserve components). Wearing of uniforms is prohibited under any of the following circumstances:

(a) Any meeting or demonstration which is a function of, or sponsored by an organization, association, movement, group, or combination of persons which the Attorney General of the United States has designated, pursuant to Executive Order 10450 as amended, as totalitarian, fascist, communist, or subversive, or as having adopted a policy of advocating or approving the commission of acts of force or violence to deny others their rights under the Constitution of the United States by unconstitutional means.

(b) During or in connection with political activities, private employment or commercial interest, that imply official sponsorship of the activity or interest.

(c) When participating in activities such as public speeches, interviews, picket lines, marches, rallies or any public demonstration which implies the service supports the principles of the demonstration or activity. This rule may be waived by the service.


(d) When wearing of the uniform would discredit Armed Forces.

(e) When specifically prohibited by regulations of the department concerned.

If your nephew listens to you, he'll get himself in deep kimchee with the U.S. Marine Corps. You're not in a position to be giving that kind of advice without the backing of military uniform regulations. Tell your nephew to NOT wear his uniform. If you don't believe me, call ANY U.S. Marine Corps base or any USMC recruiter. Congratulations for trying to screw up your nephew's time in the Corps.


Aviator
 

Aviator

Expert Expediter
And finally, from the Marine manual that is the equivalent of AR 670-1...

b. Former Members of the Armed Forces. Unless qualified under another provision of this Order or under the provisions of 10 U.S.C. 772, former members who served honorably during a declared or undeclared war and whose most recent service was terminated under honorable conditions may wear the uniform in the highest grade held during such war service only upon the following occasions and in the course of travel incident thereto:

(1) Military funerals, memorial services, weddings, and inaugurals.

(2) Parades on national or state holidays; or other parades or ceremonies of a patriotic character in which any active or reserve United States military unit is taking part.
'Wearing of the uniform or any part thereof at any other time or for any purpose is prohibited.'


Aviator
 

terryandrene

Veteran Expediter
Safety & Compliance
US Coast Guard
Bravo Zulu Aviator. Reason and regulations beat emotions every time.

I still think there is more to the Cpl Kokesh story than has been reported in the press. Those folks had to have been acting or speaking in a manner to come to the attention of the military.
 

Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
But I doubt anyone would really raise a fuss if you used cammies to go hunting in. It's all about the message; and his message left a bad taste in the mouths of some very high up ppl.

-Vampire Super Slooth Trucker!!!
 

arkjarhead

Veteran Expediter
when i was in the corps they told us cammies or bdus whatever term you prefer are not to be worn on leave or liberty so he broke that rule. plus he was disrespectful to an officer there's another. then you know they are gonna throw in article 132 i belive it is which is the general article. we always called it the catch all. they throw it in on anything. if he had received at least two njps before this which the pistol would count as one they could get him with pattern of misconduct. hope that make sense.
3 njps= a charge for pattern of misconduct
at least in the marines.
njp= non judical punishment
 

Aviator

Expert Expediter
>I might add that contrary to popular opinion he is not the
>only veteran against the Iraq War.


Perhaps older Vets, but the vast majority of the troops over here (Afghanistan) and in Iraq Understand and agree with what is going on. And they are seeing the entire story, not just what the news feeds people back in the US.


Aviator
 

x06col

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
Retired Expediter
US Army
Well. I know. You know. We all know. Was not too bright. Today. Or, tomorrow. Or, when he did it. Period!!!!
 
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