Unreasonable demands?

[Streakn1]

Recently we showed up at a security gate for a customer we regularly service. The security personel (officers) are not employees of the customer. We have been cleared through this gate many times without issue.

On this particular delivery we were met with a different scenario unlike in the past when we've explained that due to the freight securement devices on our trailer (which are standard design), some of the equipment boxes on the trailer can not be opened when the securement devices are in use. This officer first replied "not a problem", as has been done in the past. After inspecting the truck and trailer and clearing us the officer had a change in heart appearently. The officer returned and demanded that all freight securement be removed and the boxes opened. we were fully loaded with multiple pieces. Plus when one of the locks on a box door was found to be broken (unknown to us) and the door latch would not release, the officer wanted the door broken to gain entry on a $600.00 box. No other security personel at this location (or ANY other location) has ever made these demands. What about the time spent blocking a gate to first unsecure and then resecure the load while others wait in line? This is not a changable design and is common on MANY trailers out here.

Funny, this officer never stepped up into the cab to see that nobody else was inside hiding, like all of the other officers at this post (and others) have done in the past. Does homeland security really know what they're looking for?

 

[bubblehead]

Plus when one of the locks on a box door was found to be broken (unknown to us) and the door latch would not release,

BIG RED FLAG!! Having experienced extensive searches many times with South Com. and other locations and realizing they are privy to information we are not, I just go with the flow. I am more disturbed with how lax they were with you in the past. Broken lock! Unknown to You! Shame on them for not checking your sleeper and for letting you in. Thats a reportable breach of proceedures!

 

[Streakn1]

Plus when one of the locks on a box door was found to be broken (unknown to us) and the door latch would not release,

BIG RED FLAG!! Having experienced extensive searches many times with South Com. and other locations and realizing they are privy to information we are not, I just go with the flow. I am more disturbed with how lax they were with you in the past. Broken lock! Unknown to You! Shame on them for not checking your sleeper and for letting you in. Thats a reportable breach of proceedures!

In the spirit of good debate:

First, don't forget that I am married to a prior law enforcement officer of eleven years tenure and we have been on both sides of many "entensive" searches in the past.

So by "going with the flow" are you saying that in the case of a mechanical device on your truck unexpectedly breaking, you are willing to break it even more (at more cost to you) to satisfy security? Or would you tell them I will have a locksmith,etc come to correct the problem before we proceed any further. To "break it" would have required distroying the door and thus having to replace the entire box.

I totally agree that failure to search the cab properly is a breach of security. In defense of this officer I have to wonder if the issues with the blocked boxes and broken lock was a distraction and the cab search was overlooked.

In reference to the "being lax with you in the past" if you are applying it to the blocked boxes due to freight securement: could the rationale be they are not being lax with us, but rather expediting the search process and seeing us as a low level threat going into a less populated area with a lower potential for collateral damage?

 

[bubblehead]

In the spirit of good debate:

First, don't forget that I am married to a prior law enforcement officer of eleven years tenure and we have been on both sides of many "entensive" searches in the past.

So by "going with the flow" are you saying that in the case of a mechanical device on your truck unexpectedly breaking, you are willing to break it even more (at more cost to you) to satisfy security? Or would you tell them I will have a locksmith,etc come to correct the problem before we proceed any further. To "break it" would have required distroying the door and thus having to replace the entire box.

I totally agree that failure to search the cab properly is a breach of security. In defense of this officer I have to wonder if the issues with the blocked boxes and broken lock was a distraction and the cab search was overlooked.

In reference to the "being lax with you in the past" if you are applying it to the blocked boxes due to freight securement: could the rationale be they are not being lax with us, but rather expediting the search process and seeing us as a low level threat going into a less populated area with a lower potential for collateral damage?

Thats exactly what I am saying. Your post is "Unreasonable Demands" and with you and your wife's background, I wonder even more why you would think it was "unreasonable"...and you never mentioned about getting a lock smith to correct your problem in your first post. Big Red Flag! I would have turned you away (politely) at minmum.

 

[Streakn1]

Thats exactly what I am saying. Your post is "Unreasonable Demands" and with you and your wife's background, I wonder even more why you would think it was "unreasonable"...and you never mentioned about getting a lock smith to correct your problem in your first post. Big Red Flag! I would have turned you away (politely) at minmum.

Your counterpoint is respectfully considered. But I ask you again since I feel you have yet to answered the question, would you break your door at the officer's demand? Would you allow the officer to attempt to break it? In our case this is what the officer attempted until my wife yelled at him to stop or that he would be charged for any damage to our property?

When I read your responses to this thread I assume that you would agree to damage your (or your owner's) equipment to satisfy what you consider a reasonable request by the officer. If in your opinion you would have politely turned us away at minimum, what then do you think should have been the alternative action for our refusing to break our equipment due to a situation we had no prior knowledge or control over (broken lock)? Why do you feel that someone that was totally willing to open up their truck and all boxes,etc to WILLINGLY allow a FULL search, only to have the unfortunate circumstance of a broken lock should be a Big Red Flag? For the record, the locksmith was not an option.

This was a simple security search, NOT a criminal search. They do NOT have the authority to break or damage the property they are searching,nor do they have the authority to order you to break anything in order to seach said property. Our backgrounds strengthened our stand on our decision in how this was handled.

I guess to put it simply, since others are willing to stand back and allow a gate officer break and damage their equipment for access in a simple security check, those of us that refuse to allow this are wrong in your opinion.

 

[bubblehead]

Your counterpoint is respectfully considered. But I ask you again since I feel you have yet to answered the question, would you break your door at the officer's demand? Would you allow the officer to attempt to break it? In our case this is what the officer attempted until my wife yelled at him to stop or that he would be charged for any damage to our property?

When I read your responses to this thread I assume that you would agree to damage your (or your owner's) equipment to satisfy what you consider a reasonable request by the officer. If in your opinion you would have politely turned us away at minimum, what then do you think should have been the alternative action for our refusing to break our equipment due to a situation we had no prior knowledge or control over (broken lock)? Why do you feel that someone that was totally willing to open up their truck and all boxes,etc to WILLINGLY allow a FULL search, only to have the unfortunate circumstance of a broken lock should be a Big Red Flag? For the record, the locksmith was not an option.

This was a simple security search, NOT a criminal search. They do NOT have the authority to break or damage the property they are searching,nor do they have the authority to order you to break anything in order to seach said property. Our backgrounds strengthened our stand on our decision in how this was handled.

I guess to put it simply, since others are willing to stand back and allow a gate officer break and damage their equipment for access in a simple security check, those of us that refuse to allow this are wrong in your opinion.

It is my equipment, I own my own truck, If I missed the broken lock in a pre-trip inspection prior to going to a customer which I am aware might perform an extensive search (perhaps I arrive at an elevated threat level) at their facility, I would rather leave the facility, correct the situation and then return. I would not expect them to compromise security because I failed to asssure that all my equipment is in good operational condition. When we go to such a facility, we make our truck search ready prior to arrival. eg. All cameras, computers, cell phones are placed in an organizer designed for such and is promptly handed over to security. Locks are an Item checked for the run and if one became unusable (unknown to me) I would be concerned myself...lets see, break into a trucks storage box, place IED in said box, jam it closed, make it look like it wasn't otherwise tampered with...I hope you get the picture. We can "what if" this to death but the bottom line... my equipment, my responsibility, my fault.

 

[Streakn1]

It is my equipment, I own my own truck, If I missed the broken lock in a pre-trip inspection prior to going to a customer which I am aware might perform an extensive search (perhaps I arrive at an elevated threat level) at their facility, I would rather leave the facility, correct the situation and then return. I would not expect them to compromise security because I failed to asssure that all my equipment is in good operational condition. When we go to such a facility, we make our truck search ready prior to arrival. eg. All cameras, computers, cell phones are placed in an organizer designed for such and is promptly handed over to security. Locks are an Item checked for the run and if one became unusable (unknown to me) I would be concerned myself...lets see, break into a trucks storage box, place IED in said box, jam it closed, make it look like it wasn't otherwise tampered with...I hope you get the picture. We can "what if" this to death but the bottom line... my equipment, my responsibility, my fault.

Finally, you've answered my question! Since you stated you would rather leave the facility, correct the situation and then return. That tells me that you indeed feel for you to be demanded to break your equipment to allow for a security search would be an unreasonable request, correct? I totally agree with you,but first they have to release you. Remember, you are at their gate on their property. Do they have to release you?

Heres a question for you: If the blocked and broken box lock is such a red flag, why not the freight on the open deck? Why would it not be inspected? Is it not also a potential threat?

 

[aileron]

So, how did you end up solving this?

 

[Streakn1]

So, how did you end up solving this?

For the sake of security I will share that privately with you.

 

[bubblehead]

Thats exactly what I am saying. Your post is "Unreasonable Demands" and with you and your wife's background, I wonder even more why you would think it was "unreasonable"...and you never mentioned about getting a lock smith to correct your problem in your first post. Big Red Flag! I would have turned you away (politely) at minmum.

I believe I answered the question when it was asked..."Thats exactly what I am saying..." was the answer to your question. If circumstances become such that I am not allowed to leave and they deem it prudent to open the box with or without damage, then yes, I would be upset...at myself for doing a poor job of maintaining my equipment (if that was the case and not because it was tampered with) and of the damage that will result from it, but the safety and security of the facility is more important than my little $600. box. You can "what about or what if" this to death. It becomes pointless. I and my equipment are not so important that security should be compromised because I failed to properly maintain my equipment. The cargo is the issue between shipper and cosignee, usually that is worked out in advance. Up to them not me to determine what on this shipment needs to be checked.

 

[Streakn1]

I believe I answered the question when it was asked..."Thats exactly what I am saying..." was the answer to your question. If circumstances become such that I am not allowed to leave and they deem it prudent to open the box with or without damage, then yes, I would be upset...at myself for doing a poor job of maintaining my equipment (if that was the case and not because it was tampered with) and of the damage that will result from it, but the safety and security of the facility is more important than my little $600. box. You can "what about or what if" this to death. It becomes pointless. I and my equipment are not so important that security should be compromised because I failed to properly maintain my equipment. The cargo is the issue between shipper and cosignee, usually that is worked out in advance. Up to them not me to determine what on this shipment needs to be checked.

I'm sorry that you would feel that you have failed or done a poor job if you experienced a situation such as ours. No matter how well you inspect your truck you cannot be assured that the next time you lock a box while in transit from one stop to the next that the lock will work, can you? What you feel is failure, I do not. I consider it unfortunate and no reflection on the quality of the job I do.

I'm glad that your little $600 box is of less importance to you than mine is to me. We work hard for our money as I'm sure you do. We are NOT going to allow someone else to foolishly waste our money. They can wait for their freight to allow me a less expensive solution to the problem. By requesting that is in no way compromising security, now is it?

For the record: The lock worked properly six hours prior, the box was unlocked, opened and closed, relocked, the truck traveled non-stop to said location, was not left unattended at any time prior to security check, lock then failed to open. Who's fault is that?

 

[Poorboy]

Your counterpoint is respectfully considered. But I ask you again since I feel you have yet to answered the question, would you break your door at the officer's demand? Would you allow the officer to attempt to break it? In our case this is what the officer attempted until my wife yelled at him to stop or that he would be charged for any damage to our property?

When I read your responses to this thread I assume that you would agree to damage your (or your owner's) equipment to satisfy what you consider a reasonable request by the officer. If in your opinion you would have politely turned us away at minimum, what then do you think should have been the alternative action for our refusing to break our equipment due to a situation we had no prior knowledge or control over (broken lock)? Why do you feel that someone that was totally willing to open up their truck and all boxes,etc to WILLINGLY allow a FULL search, only to have the unfortunate circumstance of a broken lock should be a Big Red Flag? For the record, the locksmith was not an option.

This was a simple security search, NOT a criminal search. They do NOT have the authority to break or damage the property they are searching,nor do they have the authority to order you to break anything in order to seach said property. Our backgrounds strengthened our stand on our decision in how this was handled.

I guess to put it simply, since others are willing to stand back and allow a gate officer break and damage their equipment for access in a simple security check, those of us that refuse to allow this are wrong in your opinion.

I'm Thinkin that I would Have asked the Security Guard to Call his Supervisor over and explain the Broken Lock to Him and Maybe he could Work something out! And No, I wouldn't destroy something to appease the Security Guard.. If the Supervisor couldn't or wouldn't Help then I would Have Left If They Would Release Me and worked on the Lock Until I Somehow Got it Open and then go back (After I Called My Company and told them as to what was Going On) and Maybe the Company knew of a Contact Person to Call! If They Wouldn't Release me then I Probably would Have to Call a Lock Smith or Drill the Lock Out myself, If my Tools weren't Locked in the Same Box!

 

[moose]

For the sake of security I will share that privately with you.

OMG !!!
you killed the poor gourd ???

 

[Poorboy]

OMG !!!
you killed the poor gourd ???

Yeah, and He Stuffed him Into the Locked Box once he got it Opened! We Figured That One Out Huh?

 

[aileron]

moose, you are killing me.

 

[Yesteryear]

OMG !!!
you killed the poor gourd ???

Yep, I agree! That's what they did! Poor guard!

Personally, there is no way I would have let them break the box. I would have had my hubby (also a former law enforcement officer of over 20 + years civilian, as well as 3 prior years as an Army MP) out there doing his best to giggle the darn thing open. If all else failed to open the box I would have then called my company and explained the occurring issue and ask their advise to a resolution. If they said to break the box open I would request they send their willingness to pay the 600.00 to replace the box over the QC.

We actually did have a similar occurence but not with the expense. We keep a heavy duty padlock on our truck. While delivering to Walmart my husband went to unlock the padlock to open the doors prior to docking and found the key would no longer work in the lock even though the lock had worked properly when we loaded it would not work hours later when unloading. Ended up having to get bolt cutters and cut the lock off.

 

[x06col]

Streakin and company yo sure do seem to have a lotta delima's in this biz. Why with all the problems with tousand dollah seats an sex hunnert dolla cargo boxes. I'm waiting to read when sumpim really, really impotent comes up.

 

[Moot]

Colonel, you may have a long wait! There are drugs available that may speed up the process. Good luck to all parties involved.

 

[dabluzman1]

When ya get the big bucks ya gotta expect a few ticks in bed.

 

[Streakn1]

Streakin and company yo sure do seem to have a lotta delima's in this biz. Why with all the problems with tousand dollah seats an sex hunnert dolla cargo boxes. I'm waiting to read when sumpim really, really impotent comes up.

Colonel, that is what you are isn't it? You really need to learn how to use the "check spelling" option on this website. Your misspelled words really make you look illiterate dude!

I count at least seven misspelled words in one little reply of yours.