Actually, the sooner you, your bud and everyone else here that think they SHOULD, i'm here to enlighten y'all......that EVERY day of your business life, WILL NOT be profitable.
Truth In Advertising & Posting?
- Thread starter LisaLouHoo
- Start date
Actually, the sooner you, your bud and everyone else here that think they SHOULD, i'm here to enlighten y'all......that EVERY day of your business life, WILL NOT be profitable.
BACK HAUL -- NO, that is a dirty word. There is no such thing as a back haul. The receiver needs the freight and without a truck they ain't getting it. I can not think of anywhere is the U.S. that a tractor would have to take a back haul rate. If you go into a area that you think requires a back haul out then I am sorry that is not a wise business decision. If going to one of these area's you simply demand more money to get out there so you can get back and remain profitable. If they will not pay you what is required to operate you tractor then turn it down. Now, I am not speaking of ltl style freight, I am speaking of TL freight that the customer needs within a solo transit time window.
As for the company taking 15% I will not comment on that because I have seen allot worse. A company truck lease comes to mind.
I am not telling you how to run your tractor, I know you have been at this for a long time and that you remain profitable. It is not a attack on you either. I just hate the word BACK HAUL. It is just a excuse to have someone take a TL for less then the going rate. Customers/brokers taking advantage of O/O and L/O's, just my .02. Be safe out here and always remember it is your truck and your expenses, never let a carrier/broker hang it over ya!!
LisaLouHoo
Expert Expediter
We're not delusional about profit, if you will note I stated earlier that my boyfriend has been at this for 7 years. This thread isn't about how to make a profit but rather not being boldfaced lied to by the majority of carriers about a myriad of subjects, ranging from ppm to fd to oos time...
Is wanting honesty delusional?
Knowing how big a deal this is to us, I started this thread knowing full well I would get some smartmouthed comment from one of the four who pounce on my posts. They are either bored out of their skulls, stalkers, misogynists, or so deep in the closet they won't be found til next Christmas.
(Posted with my Droid EO Forum App while Jeffman164 naps like a little angel in the back of the cargo van with a big plan)
True dat. It amazes me still how people want guarantees, and think they should get them, in a business built on emergency freight that never has and will never guarantee anything.
"Is wanting honesty delusional?"
If one is equating honesty with a guarantee, yes, it's absolutely delusional. Because of the way freight is now doled out, with the shippers and paying parties largely calling the shots, this is an industry which rapidly evolves in time frames of minutes, not months, and what may be absolutely true right now may be completely false an hour or two from now. Anyone who has been in this business for 7 years and has failed to see how the industry has evolved and is currently evolving hasn't been paying attention.
Now, if you want to get into specifics, rather than abstracts, fine, otherwise pretty much every comment in this thread had been theoretical and largely meaningless. It's a gripe for the sake of griping. Unless specifics and solutions are offered, what's the point?
DannyD
Veteran Expediter
Turtle,
In my case I thought I had given specifics. The solutions would be to pay after 30 days, pay the hotel, & quit calling me at 6AM for the simple purpose of waking me up when there's no run being offered on. I didn't think those needed to be said though. I had thought they would be obvious.
In her b/f's case I'd think the solution would be to either pay the $1+/mile talked about or to not say how much ya paid, needed drivers & then offer .85.
Or, they could tell it to drivers like you stated it. That things change. That what may hold true today isn't a promise on how it's going to be tomorrow. If that's the case, just inform the driver. Most people just want to make their decisions based on accurate information.
In my case I thought I had given specifics. The solutions would be to pay after 30 days, pay the hotel, & quit calling me at 6AM for the simple purpose of waking me up when there's no run being offered on. I didn't think those needed to be said though. I had thought they would be obvious.
In her b/f's case I'd think the solution would be to either pay the $1+/mile talked about or to not say how much ya paid, needed drivers & then offer .85.
Or, they could tell it to drivers like you stated it. That things change. That what may hold true today isn't a promise on how it's going to be tomorrow. If that's the case, just inform the driver. Most people just want to make their decisions based on accurate information.
In your case you did give specific examples. In the case of the 30 days, I'd want that in writing up front, same with the motels thing, since both seem a little out of the ordinary and would be suspicious on the face of it. In the third case, I dunno if it was an actual lie or not, I'd have to hear the explanation of the person who told your they'd stop calling, to know one way or the other.
Recruiters sometimes lie, or put a nice spin on things, and sometimes they are out of the loop on how things actually work and what they say becomes either a de facto lie or an inadvertent misrepresentation. As you begin to understand how the business works you can see through most of those pretty easily. When you are told something that turns out to not be true, either hold their feet to the fire to get what you were promised, or sever ties immediately. As soon as you understand that a carrier could care less about you, the better. If their word is no good, then neither will be the relationship.
Recruiters sometimes lie, or put a nice spin on things, and sometimes they are out of the loop on how things actually work and what they say becomes either a de facto lie or an inadvertent misrepresentation. As you begin to understand how the business works you can see through most of those pretty easily. When you are told something that turns out to not be true, either hold their feet to the fire to get what you were promised, or sever ties immediately. As soon as you understand that a carrier could care less about you, the better. If their word is no good, then neither will be the relationship.
LisaLouHoo
Expert Expediter
Oh brother, no wonder carriers can walk all over some drivers. With some of the misconstrued replies in this thread...I guess I assumed people understood the business as well as Danny D, Dave KC, goslow and a few others to grasp the concept of the thread.
With people so quick to jump to a conclusion, not take time to reread and sort it out, some of these carriers have hit the motherload...
We're not asking for load guarantees, they can't be given. Anyone who doesn't realize that is a moron.
We would like when you say you pay $1 pm minimum to a van that you don't start every offer at .85...then act offended when you are reminded of what you said; don't get offended when you are told by the driver 85 miles deadhead on a 350 run is unreasonable; you have personal problems? We all do. Don't take it out on your drivers."No forced dispatch", but when a driver turns down a run, moving them to the bottom of their contact list is basically the same thing, a form of punishment for refusing a load.
They need to tell what they REALLY are going to pay, not just what they paid Dash Riprock ONE TIME to expedite a bowl of grits to Jethro Bodine. They need to let a driver know exactly how they perceive refused runs. They need to let drivers know what they consider reasonable deadheading.
THAT is not too much to ask.
(Posted with my Droid EO Forum App while Jeffman164 still sleeps and I am inside the Limestone, NC WalMart)
With people so quick to jump to a conclusion, not take time to reread and sort it out, some of these carriers have hit the motherload...
We're not asking for load guarantees, they can't be given. Anyone who doesn't realize that is a moron.
We would like when you say you pay $1 pm minimum to a van that you don't start every offer at .85...then act offended when you are reminded of what you said; don't get offended when you are told by the driver 85 miles deadhead on a 350 run is unreasonable; you have personal problems? We all do. Don't take it out on your drivers."No forced dispatch", but when a driver turns down a run, moving them to the bottom of their contact list is basically the same thing, a form of punishment for refusing a load.
They need to tell what they REALLY are going to pay, not just what they paid Dash Riprock ONE TIME to expedite a bowl of grits to Jethro Bodine. They need to let a driver know exactly how they perceive refused runs. They need to let drivers know what they consider reasonable deadheading.
THAT is not too much to ask.
(Posted with my Droid EO Forum App while Jeffman164 still sleeps and I am inside the Limestone, NC WalMart)
If someone at a carrier told you they pay $1.00 minimum for a cargo van, for all loads, they clearly lied. And it's a lie that should have been called out the minute they stated it, since that's above the current rates in this industry. One glance at the bid boards will tell you that. There are a few that go for that much, but certainly not enough to be able to make the claim that it's the minimum a carrier will offer to their vans.
85 miles deadhead for a 350 mile run is not unreasonable at all. It's 24% deadhead of line haul, and 19.5% deadhead overall. In an industry where you should expect anywhere between 20% and 30% of your year-end odometer to be unpaid deadhead miles, it's right in line. More than 40% is unreasonable. But then again, the carrier has very little control over where their customers and emergency freight comes from, and they're just looking to get loads covered. The customer certainly doesn't care how many deadhead miles you have to incur to pick up the load, that's for sure. So if you're going to act offended over 24% deadhead, don't act surprised when the dispatcher acts offended right back.
My carrier used to drop you to the bottom of the board upon a refusal, but someone pointed out to them that doing so was a punishment and a de facto forced dispatch. They no longer do that. But even when they did, I knew they did it, and could work within that rule usually to my advantage.
85 miles deadhead for a 350 mile run is not unreasonable at all. It's 24% deadhead of line haul, and 19.5% deadhead overall. In an industry where you should expect anywhere between 20% and 30% of your year-end odometer to be unpaid deadhead miles, it's right in line. More than 40% is unreasonable. But then again, the carrier has very little control over where their customers and emergency freight comes from, and they're just looking to get loads covered. The customer certainly doesn't care how many deadhead miles you have to incur to pick up the load, that's for sure. So if you're going to act offended over 24% deadhead, don't act surprised when the dispatcher acts offended right back.
No, it's not asking too much. You can't play the game if you don't know the rules, or worse if they are constantly changing the rules as the game is played. But once you know the rules, then you can work within them to your advantage, or walk away and find a carrier who has rules you can play by.
My carrier used to drop you to the bottom of the board upon a refusal, but someone pointed out to them that doing so was a punishment and a de facto forced dispatch. They no longer do that. But even when they did, I knew they did it, and could work within that rule usually to my advantage.
A more effective approach toward success in expediting and satisfaction with a carrier would be to shift the focus from THEY to I. Before signing on with a carrier, I need to learn what they really are gong to pay. I need to know how exactly the carrier perceives refused runs. I need to know what the carrier considers reasonable deadheading.
To get that information, I would ask the carrier, of course. Believing accurate information gathering to be my responsibility, and understanding that success in expediting is my job, not a recruiter's, I would note what THEY said and only later decide what I choose to believe.
I would make that decision by talking to other people who run with that carrier and other expediters in the industry. After carrier statements are cross-checked, the decision of what to believe could be confidently made.
LisaLouHoo
Expert Expediter
That's been done on this end...and in the year that I have been with Jeffman164 I have seen 3 carriers kicked to the curb. They violate their end of the contract by out and out lying. They change horses mid-stream. They left him hanging at JFK 5 hours when they could have remedied the situation in under 30 minutes...and then blame and pressure Jeff? He shouldn't have had to post the surety bond out of his pocket, but the carrier spent over 4 hours trying to figure out how they could be absolved of involvement...I kid you not.
Too many people it seems, either have not been with someone olong enough or are afraid to tell of a bad experience. One on one? I will name names...but I have provided enough that any of the carriers representatives who browse the forums will know it's them.
(Posted with my Droid EO Forum App...while Jeffman164 plays with a compass)
Too many people it seems, either have not been with someone olong enough or are afraid to tell of a bad experience. One on one? I will name names...but I have provided enough that any of the carriers representatives who browse the forums will know it's them.
(Posted with my Droid EO Forum App...while Jeffman164 plays with a compass)
greg334
Veteran Expediter
I have to ask LisaLouHoo, are you talking about working with companies with a partner agreement or as a directly leased contractor?
With that said, I do agree with Phil but it brings up a serious question - if someone wants to be successful, outside of getting it together, do they actually go beyond the recruiter and talk to actual people who are actually working?
I found out three things happen if you ask people what they make;
1 - they tell you the truth and not embarrassed to tell if they are not making money
2 - they lie, because they are embarrassed of what they make
3 - the just say **** *** it's none of your business.
Many people don't bother to ask more than one or two people what they make, and I think that is because they are afraid to ask and get that third response.
With that said, I do agree with Phil but it brings up a serious question - if someone wants to be successful, outside of getting it together, do they actually go beyond the recruiter and talk to actual people who are actually working?
I found out three things happen if you ask people what they make;
1 - they tell you the truth and not embarrassed to tell if they are not making money
2 - they lie, because they are embarrassed of what they make
3 - the just say **** *** it's none of your business.
Many people don't bother to ask more than one or two people what they make, and I think that is because they are afraid to ask and get that third response.
Jeffman164 seems to be on his fourth carrier in a year. That seems to be a long learning curve to me. 
How many times do you need to be led down the garden path before you learn to ask "where are we going"
How many times do you need to be led down the garden path before you learn to ask "where are we going" 
chefdennis
Veteran Expediter
I think gregs question as to if he is working with companies with a partner agreement or as a directly leased contractor is key...
And where is the contract stating that all loads will be paid at a minimum of a $1.00 a mile? and does that include the FSC??
And yea 4 companies in a yr...seems a bit high, but how many in the say 5 yrs???
I know i have been in the business 3 yrs..2.5 with one company and 6 months with my current carrier....netier lied to me...did or do I like everything that either of them do? nope...but i was never out and out lied to...and if anyone thinks thats bs or i am ascared to speak the truth, oh well...as i have sated here many times, Anne at Bolt is a straight up lady and will not lie and and no one else there lied to me either...and NO one at LOAD 1 has lied about anything that I know of to any of us that have gone there from what I ahve read here on EO....
And where is the contract stating that all loads will be paid at a minimum of a $1.00 a mile? and does that include the FSC??
And yea 4 companies in a yr...seems a bit high, but how many in the say 5 yrs???
I know i have been in the business 3 yrs..2.5 with one company and 6 months with my current carrier....netier lied to me...did or do I like everything that either of them do? nope...but i was never out and out lied to...and if anyone thinks thats bs or i am ascared to speak the truth, oh well...as i have sated here many times, Anne at Bolt is a straight up lady and will not lie and and no one else there lied to me either...and NO one at LOAD 1 has lied about anything that I know of to any of us that have gone there from what I ahve read here on EO....
LisaLouHoo
Expert Expediter
I had a nice long reply but scrapped it because it is obvious many of you don't grasp the concept of this thread...but to insinuate Jeffman is stupid for dropping carriers, no matter how many over what period, because he refuses to be their stooge? If he did not drop them & allow them to violate the contract against him, then he would be of questionable intelligence.
greg334
Veteran Expediter
Chef, thanks for acknowledging it. The problem I am seeing is that she is talking about a partner agreement - the hint was his own authority - and if so, 4 companies is nothing.
AND if that's the case, the real issue is what do these companies actually do to stand by their agreed rates minimals?
If they are saying that there is a floor to their rates and offer you nothing but crap rates below the floor, then yes there is a serious issue with truth in advertising.
LisaLouHoo
Expert Expediter
Example: carrier says they pay $1 cpm minimum...then once on board only wants to pony up .85 cpm at best. Jeffman gets what was agreed to, but not without contention. There shouldn't be any debate.
Posted with my Droid EO Forum App
Posted with my Droid EO Forum App
chefdennis
Veteran Expediter
greg wrote:
I totally agree with the above and the rest of your post, but she has yet to point that out and only spoke in generalities and implied that every carrier out here is lying and not following through on what they have contracted to do..leaving people to respond based on their own experiences.
With the number of people "leased' to carriers far out numbering those working as "partener carriers" it would seem that if you are having issues you would make sure that you are providing all the info so that those commenting again don't have to "assume" based on their own experience in how they do business....it really isn't that hard to provide the needed info, as people that are "leased" to "A" carrier do business a bit differently then those providing their services as a "partener carrier" to multiple carriers....
I totally agree with the above and the rest of your post, but she has yet to point that out and only spoke in generalities and implied that every carrier out here is lying and not following through on what they have contracted to do..leaving people to respond based on their own experiences.
With the number of people "leased' to carriers far out numbering those working as "partener carriers" it would seem that if you are having issues you would make sure that you are providing all the info so that those commenting again don't have to "assume" based on their own experience in how they do business....it really isn't that hard to provide the needed info, as people that are "leased" to "A" carrier do business a bit differently then those providing their services as a "partener carrier" to multiple carriers....
LisaLouHoo
Expert Expediter
FINE. If it will get you off my a$$: THE CARRIERS MY BOYFRIEND HAS DEALT WITH VIA EO ADS AND FORUMS ARE NOT WHAT THEY CLAIM TO BE. HE HAS NOT DEALT WITH EVERYONE...YET. HE DRIVES A CARGO VAN. HE HAS HAD TWO OF THE SAME CARRIERS FOR MANY YEARS. HE IS LOOKING TO HAVE FOUR RELIABLE CARRIERS. HE PARTNER CARRIES, HAS HIS OWN AUTHORITY, HAS DRIVERS WORKING FOR HIM. HE ALSO LIKES CRUNCHY PEANUT BUTTER. OK???
Posted with my Droid EO Forum App
Posted with my Droid EO Forum App
chefdennis
Veteran Expediter
There you go!! Now with the fact KNOWN that he is a "partener carrier" ...yes he shouldn't be being jerked around on rates that are in the contract. It looks like he is beng offered the same rates that the carrier is paying their lease owner and drivers which from my understanding is not the norm...so yea you have a legit *itch on that..but if you have a contract, then deal with it that way....oh and yea as a patener carrier, being with 4 different carriers in no big deal and i understand that now that it is out there...
As for the "crunchy peanut butter"...does he prefer Jiff or Skippy???
Now with the fact KNOWN that he is a "partener carrier" ...yes he shouldn't be being jerked around on rates that are in the contract. It looks like he is beng offered the same rates that the carrier is paying their lease owner and drivers which from my understanding is not the norm...so yea you have a legit *itch on that..but if you have a contract, then deal with it that way....oh and yea as a patener carrier, being with 4 different carriers in no big deal and i understand that now that it is out there...As for the "crunchy peanut butter"...does he prefer Jiff or Skippy???