Truck Build Disasters

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
How many have experienced a truck build disaster? This has come up on more than one occassion when someone has decided to build a truck from scratch rather than buying a spec truck. Sometimes it is just ordering a truck from a dealer that has no experience with expediting. Lawrence had a post recently where a guy had a chassis with a 72" sleeper, and a 26 foot box. Can you say "alittle overlength" These things do happen unless you and whom ever are building your truck, knows what they are doing. When they don't, bad things are sure to happen. As I have mentioned before and should again, one needs to know as much as the people building it to ensure a quality finished product, enless your buying a spec truck.
When this happens, what have folks done to correct the failed issues?

Davekc
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
>How many have experienced a truck build disaster? This has
>come up on more than one occassion when someone has decided
>to build a truck from scratch rather than buying a spec
>truck. Sometimes it is just ordering a truck from a dealer
>that has no experience with expediting. Lawrence had a post
>recently where a guy had a chassis with a 72" sleeper, and a
>26 foot box. Can you say "alittle overlength" These things
>do happen unless you and whom ever are building your truck,
>knows what they are doing. When they don't, bad things are
>sure to happen. As I have mentioned before and should again,
>one needs to know as much as the people building it to
>ensure a quality finished product, enless your buying a spec
>truck.
>When this happens, what have folks done to correct the
>failed issues?
>
>Davekc

We are in the midst of truck building challenges now, though "disaster" is not a word that characterizes our circumstances. "Delays" are the more accurate term as well as vendor issues. I'm not at liberty to comment on it further as things are very much in flux now...all to produce a better result upon completion.

The statement, "...>one needs to know as much as the people building it to
>ensure a quality finished product, enless your buying a spec
>truck." is the most ridiculous statement I've read in three years of surfing Internet trucking sites. By that reasoning, no one could ever build a truck from scratch since the senior vendors requried to do it would almost always have more experience than you.

The whole point of vendor experience, I once thought, was for first-time buyers to benefit from it. And even for a 20 year expediter, there is absolutely no way that the opinions developed on the road can rival the engineering resources and truck building experience senior vendors have.

Certain people are taking great joy in the fact that our very unique and very expensive truck has not yet been finished. That's their deal. Our deal is holding out for the exact truck we want, perfectly built from bumper to bumper, and enjoying it in the years ahead. We could have been in a truck of our own years ago, but not the truck we want. We've adapted to the delays, continue to make money, and continue to look forward to the truck we want.

One might ask why was it necessary to make such replacements? Indeed, we've asked the very same question. The answer is simple. Beyond specifying components and their characteristics, (body legnth, sleeper size and features, transmission type, etc.) We did not engineer or spec the truck. We relied on our vendors to do that. When we found their work to be less than what they promised, we refused the truck, refused to pay, and sent them back to the drawing board. Some - despite impressive resumes - proved to be lacking in the skills required to either produce results or serve successfully on a vendor team, or both.

One benefit derived by our apporach is we are getting a 1996 model at the 1995 price. There are numerous other benefits as well, such as additional options available in 1996 that were not...all of which will make it an even better truck than we first spec'ed.

The delays have extended and expanded the vendor learning curve (some vendors over 30 years experience by the way). Trucks do not stay the same. It's not just how long you've been in the business, it's how smart you are. One of our vendors, brought in by another, turned out to be incompetent, much to everyone's surprise. He also happens to be the one that boasts most about his 25 years experience. He's been fired and replaced by more competent people.

Our truck build is not a disaster for us because as expediters we heeded the advice our research brought us to. Expect the unexpected. Setbacks? yes. Disaster? Not even close.

Again, because things are in flux with our project, I will not comment further about it. When the truck is complete, I'll speak at great length and in great detail about it and the vendors that successfully built it. Three vendors in the group have been replaced to date for a number of reasons. Their respective truck components have also been replaced or changed. Had I mentioned vendors by name before, such an implied endorsement would have been premature. My vendors must prove themselves first by successfully building the truck we want.

One thing for sure. When the truck is finally done, others that want a similar truck will be able to proceed with the confidence that our specs are right. Diane and I are VERY demanding customers. Our vendors learned the hard way that they cannot build an imperfect product and push it off onto us because we're drivers desperate to get into a truck. We've always maintained plans B, C, and D.

The result of our high standards and refusal to accept something less than what was bid is that people from truck and product manufacturers have been brought in at company headquarters. For them, the delays are a humiliating disaster. They don't want to make the same mistakes twice. You would not believe the attention to detail, collective brainpower, and technical expertise that is now being brought to bear on our project. Of course, that means there is more communicating and cross checking to do, which slows things down.

Keep in mind that we're not talking about an ordinary expediting truck here. Dozens of very fine, cookie-cutter choices spec'ed by experienced dealers stand on lots right now. Any one of those can serve an expediting business very well.

Ours is not a truck for everyone. In fact, few people should even consider it beyond top-producing White Glove drivers that want to be more comfortable than the freight. Our truck is not designed soley to serve expediting objectives. We have designed it to meet a bunch of personal and lifestyle objectives too. Because of that, our truck is far more complex and far more outfitted than most expediter trucks out there.

Expediting is not just about the money for us (though we've found the money to be very good). It's about lifestyle too. Our truck is as much a lifestyle vehicle as it is a freight-hauler. That's not the way most people live and work on the road. Thus it's not the kind of truck most people should have. But for those that do want a truck like ours, a successfully-spec'd great model will be there to evaluate and an experienced, educated, and smart vendor group will be there to provide it.

Until then, we're happily rolling along in a fleet owner's truck, as we've done for the two years we've been in the business.
 

rode2rouen

Expert Expediter
>>snip<<
>
>One benefit derived by our apporach is we are getting a 1996
>model at the 1995 price. There are numerous other benefits
>as well, such as additional options available in 1996 that
>were not...all of which will make it an even better truck
>than we first spec'ed.
>
>>snip<<


I'm quite frankly amazed that this project has gone on for 10 years!!!
I thought FECC-WG had much tighter restrictions on the model years of the units in their fleet.



Rex
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
Ateam wrote;

We are in the midst of truck building challenges now, though "disaster" is not a word that characterizes our circumstances. "Delays" are the more accurate term as well as vendor issues. I'm not at liberty to comment on it further as things are very much in flux now...all to produce a better result upon completion
================================================
With regards to your specific truck build, one of your vendors described it as a "disasterous nightmare". I should have been more specific.
===============================================
Ateam wrote;
The statement, "...>one needs to know as much as the people building it to
>ensure a quality finished product, enless your buying a spec
>truck." is the most ridiculous statement I've read in three years of surfing Internet trucking sites. By that reasoning, no one could ever build a truck from scratch since the senior vendors requried to do it would almost always have more experience than you.
================================================
While you may consider this statement ridiculous, it was clearly a downfall or contributed to your "delays" Of course you may not know the processes to which they arrive at decisions, but you clearly need to understand their results prior to implementation. This is even more important when working on a unusual chassis configuration.
===================================================
Ateam wrote;
One benefit derived by our apporach is we are getting a 1996 model at the 1995 price. There are numerous other benefits as well, such as additional options available in 1996 that were not...all of which will make it an even better truck than we first spec'ed.
==================================================
Not sure on this? A 95 truck or a 96 ?
Truck build has been going on much longer than I thought?
===================================================
Ateam
We did not engineer or spec the truck.
=========================================
No doubt that was a big mistake! That comment speaks volumes by itself.
===========================================
Ateam wrote;

Our truck build is not a disaster for us because as expediters we heeded the advice our research brought us to. Expect the unexpected. Setbacks? yes. Disaster? Not even close.
=============================================
Waiting for almost two years and still no truck?
Again, I will go with one of your vendors comments and call it a "disasterous nightmare".
In my world, waiting close to two years and still no truck is alittle more than a delay. Of course, that is only my opinion.
You are correct that your experiences will help future new folks who may elect to take this endevour to task.
Good luck, and hopefully it turns out like you are expecting.

Davekc
owner
21 years
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
OK DaveKC. I responded and gave you your chance to have your your say. Going forward, you build your trucks and I'll build mine.
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
>================================================
>With regards to your specific truck build, one of your
>vendors described it as a "disasterous nightmare". I should
>have been more specific.
>===============================================

Most interesting to learn DaveKC that you are probing my vednors for information about a project I've instructed them to keep confidential until the project is complete and the truck is on the road. Even more interesting to learn that some of them have not keept their promise.

Disasterous nightmare for some venders is a good descritpion. One in particular has been fired and now sits with a useless product on his lot that cannot be sold and is very expensive. That's because his work did not meet our specifications and we rejected it. Indeed, the piece of garbage he had built would not be accepted by anyone. In his case, the disasterous nightmare is one of his own making. His mistake was assuming we'd cave in and accept the truck as he hoped to deliver it.

This thread is on a downhill track and will likely be pulled if DaveKC and I continue to trade jabs. Notice, readers who initiated the thread, the fact that I responded with information about our project, and the fact that DaveKC then did an item-by-item routine of running me personally into the ground. He even admits to probing into my affairs. What manner of man would do that? DaveKC does not deserve to be a moderator entrusted with keeping personal attacks out of the Forum when he initiates them himself.
 

BigBusBob

Veteran Expediter
Driver
I was just recently browsing the truck paper on while on layover and saw 3 different KW's... One was a brand new KW that was a tractor, made into an expediter D unit... listed at $115,000, and the sleeper was not huge, I believe it was less than 96".

Then, upon further inspections... I found 2 other KW's, both '95's...

one had a 126" sleeper and was listed at $36,000,
the other had a 104" sleeper and was $72,000.

The main differences were 100 HP, Sleeper sizes, and miles.
The one for $72K had 0 miles on a fresh Over Haul.
The other for $36K had 800K miles.

In both cases, they were both road Tractors, both T600's, and both solid white in color. They looked to be well tended to in the photo's, and personally I would have gotten either one and stretched their frames and made them into expediters... or just used them as they are to expedite... Rather than spend $115,000 for a new one with a smaller sleeper and less amenities. Some people though just want a bed to sleep on - some want more. Just like any other industry, in trucking some folks are more particular than others.
The reason I mentioned them is because somebody in another post within the boards had mentioned the T600's as being so good.

Some don't like the idea of getting an older truck, stating that your "buying somebody else's problem". I don't think that way though. Buying used is like testing the waters for many. Sure it would be nice if we could all afford to and buy new rigs all the time, though the truth is not many can. There's far more co. drivers and drivers for O/O's than there are O/O's that actually drive. While there are many O/O's that do drive, a good bit own more than one truck, I think there's a good many that own 3+ ... therefor again that solidify's that there's more co. drivers than O/O's.
I see the trend of O/O's though getting rigs that are more comfortable all around - rather than just getting rigs with a sleeper and 5th wheel or cargo box. You can see comfort becoming more of a priority - the major truck makers have been stretching sleepers to 84"... soon - within the next couple years I think - we'll see truck makers spitting out trucks with gensets and 96" sleepers... with all kinds of floor plans and options available. Soon you'll have alot more to choose from than just engine, tranny, gears, and color.

There's alot to "building" a truck. So many don't understand. I've researched and looked into it some - and continue to do so.

For any newbies that may read this... there's far more to getting into the industry of relocating freight than most realize... which is why truck build disasters can end up on a dealers lot only months after the owners acquire the rig. Sometimes it's due to mis-managing their funds, or not having enough (sometimes those are one of the same beast), and sometimes it is due to equipment failures.

Having a cool looking or pretty truck does not always mean you have a better truck, that simply means you take pride in your ride.
There's nothing wrong with that.

Pretty trucks break down too though, don't let their image fool you, they have their fair share of problems. Many times they have problems different than that of a "normal" truck... and sometimes those problems are more costly too.

Pretty Truck = Custom truck; big sleeper; lots of chrome and/or lights; custom in some form or another.

a driver once told me...
Trucks are like girlfriends, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Truck Build disasters...

Tranny and gearing problems?
abnormal tire wear?
3rd axle problems?
Cargo Box issues?
Sleeper and cab problems?
water leaks?
fluid leaks?

Let's hear about them... I think many can benefit from this... Perhaps one could pull up my post about my old rig I had and put it into this thread? it's in the archives somewhere... that might be a good way to fire things up and start a Q & A about builds.
 

BigBusBob

Veteran Expediter
Driver
Ateam posted that while I was writing my post...
interesting postings is all I'm saying.
Not agreeing or disagreeing... Not getting involved... just trying to keep my head above water out here on the big roads of America.

BigBusBob
 

RichM

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
Yesterday A Team acused me of personal potshots when I asked how his truck build was coming along. Today DaveKC puts out a bonafide good topic ,does not mention A Team at all or his difficulties but A Team seems to think the post is directed at him and made disparging remarks about Dave who is an excellent moderator. Look at where the potshots are coming from.

A Team posted on several forums that he had high level engineers involved in his truck build so there was no secret investigative work done by Dave. We all know who the vendors are. He could have done the expediting community a service by describing the difficulties he has had but prefers to stay silent.

Obviously based on his response to Dave it must be an extremely sensitive issue. Life is too short for this sort of stuff.
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
As mentioned by RichM, Ateam was never mentioned in this post and chose to respond. But since he did, I thought his experiences would be of value to people contemplating a truck build. Since his truck build has been going on for almost two years, surely he would have some input helpful to folks contemplating this task. No reason to consider it a secret when it is not.

Bigbusbob wrote;
Let's hear about them... I think many can benefit from this... Perhaps one could pull up my post about my old rig I had and put it into this thread? it's in the archives somewhere... that might be a good way to fire things up and start a Q & A about builds.
=================================================================
I think this would be of great benefit rather than keeping it a "secret" or something confidential.
Ateam has wrote for almost two years about this truck build, and suddenly it is confidential. Through posts that Ateam authored, most of the information is available. Just because someone told me the information prior to a particular writing is of little value. It was freely given and no "probing" was warranted. I have in the past built many trucks which is no secret, so it could be assumed I have a relationship with people in that business.
===================================================================
Ateam wrote;
OK DaveKC. I responded and gave you your chance to have your your say. Going forward, you build your trucks and I'll build mine.
==================================================================
No secret here, my results speak for themselves. Many EO members have seen my trucks on numerous occassions. The purpose of the post was to help new folks avoid the many pitfalls that exist when taking on these kind of projects. Lawrence's example was a good one. You weren't even mentioned yet decided to interject yourself.
===================================================================
Bigbusbob wrote;
There's alot to "building" a truck. So many don't understand. I've researched and looked into it some - and continue to do so.
===================================================================
How true that statement is! That was the whole purpose of the post. Not to limit it to one persons truck build experiences, but to many.
Let try to keep a good topic civil.

Davekc
owner
21 years
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
There is a class 8 truck on the market right now that is listed as being put together by an experienced expediter so it has everything just right. It also is listed with a 5 speed Allison automatic. Talk about a disaster and that's one for sure, at least in my opinion. After quite some time in a 6 speed Allison there is no way to call a 5 speed the choice of an experienced expediter.

Leo
truck 4958
73 KE5FJG

Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
There is a class 8 truck on the market right now that is listed as being put together by an experienced expediter so it has everything just right. It also is listed with a 5 speed Allison automatic. Talk about a disaster and that's one for sure, at least in my opinion. After quite some time in a 6 speed Allison there is no way to call a 5 speed the choice of an experienced expediter.
Leo

5 speed tranny is certainly not for a expediter. They do have a couple of models that can be converted to 6 speeds. I think Broom has one. Once he got it set up correctly I think he said he was getting pretty good milage. The other common area related to the tranny is the wrong speced rear end. When you start getting into the mid and high 5's, you have a rear end for a dump truck, not a expediter. Wait until you see the fuel bill after about a month.

Davekc
 

NEVERHOME247

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
I would not call my last truck a total disaster. I did put over 900k on it before I sold it. It was the first Class 8 stretch done by a dealer in Columbus,OH. But, I will say it was not done completely correct. If I was to go this route again. I would buy a Factory Class 8 chassis. To share some of the issues. Frame was lengthened and double railed. But was only doubled to the back of the sleeper. Which did allow for some frame flex. It really should have been doubled all the way to front spring hangers. Another issue was axle placement. They were close to where they needed to be. But not 100%. Which tended to make the truck heavy on the steer. The biggest issue was the crossmembers. The frame shop cut all the rear crossmembers to allow them to spread the frame to double it. And then welded them back together. None of them ever broke. But that was not the right way to do the job. Could have resulted in a catastrophe. So, unless you are careful. You can easily get a botched job. So be careful with what you buy and build. Or you could end up with some real headaches or issues.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Neverhome247

I am about to go through a frame stretching experience and wonder what kind of truck did you have?

Did you have any problems with the frame that needed to be repaired?

Even though I have a couple shops in mind, it might be better (and cheaper in the long run) to buy the frame that I need and move everything over.
 

Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
That reminds me...

I'm buying an older class 8 straight truck. The guy says it has springs under the box (or something to that effect). This is to allow the frame to twist, but not the box's floor. Has anyone heard of this?
 

x06col

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
Retired Expediter
US Army
You may want to have the seller "splain" that springie thingie to you in a little bit'o'depth. I'd say!
 

x06col

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
Retired Expediter
US Army
Glen; You should be able to give us some reading on this subject.
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
>Obviously based on his response to Dave it must be an
>extremely sensitive issue. Life is too short for this sort
>of stuff.


RichM is correct. While the end result of our truck building project continues to hold great promise, the project has not been without it's emotional ups and downs. The last few days have been among the more frustrating (there have been numerous joyous days too). The timing of RichM's and DaveKCs posts coincided with those frustrations and I lashed out. I apologize.

We completed some face-to-face vendor meetings today and phone calls to others. The frustrating developments have been resolved or are in the process of being resolved. I feel better today.

Again, RichM and DaveKC, I apologize.
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
I never heard of springs under the box? Only spring suspensions. This will be interesting information for their intended purpose.
First time for everything.

Glen; You should be able to give us some reading on this subject.

I will second that.



Davekc
 
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