Tri-State

guest · Dec 13, 2003

Any tri-state drivers out here? Are they keeping you loaded with good paying loads? I talked to a recruiter yesterday and he (of course) talked like they had lots of freight. He even mentioned several places here in Arkansas that they have shipped into and out of. After talking with him though, I realized that some of the names mentioned were automotive suppliers? Is he mentioning customers that they no longer have any business with?

Thanks for the help,

Lawrence · Dec 13, 2003

Arky,

Please clarify a bit more. I'm not sure what your question is.

Thanks!

Lawrence,
Expediters Online.com

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guest · Dec 13, 2003

I'm just asking if they have any freight? I have read on here about them loosing GM as a customer, etc. and wonder if they have work to replace GM with? I would assume that they can work off the same load boards that other carriers do.

As for the recruiter part, I just don't trust salesmen too far..lol
He wouldn't have been lying to tell me that they have pulled lots of loads from this area. But, at the same time, that doesn't mean they still have that work.

thx again,

davekc · Dec 14, 2003

We had a truck on with them last year and yes they lost their GM contract. GM now just posts loads on the internet and companies bid on them. Unless they have changed, they pay usually around a dollar a mile and 20 cents deadhead after the first fifty. We left because they pay only HHG miles. Which means they pay only $400 on a 500 dollar load. Since they lost GM at the time we were there, the deadhead skyrocketed. We went two weeks at averaging roughly .67 cents per mile. Needless to say, I pulled our truck. In addition, alot of pay disputes and shortages with them being in their favor.
Until they change their management and operating proceedures I would stay away from them. Just my opinion. Too many other good companies to go with.

guest · Dec 14, 2003

Thx for the info. I think one of your previous posts was the reason I felt the need to ask about them. I'll probably mark them off my list. I don't expoect to set the world on fire when/if I get into this field, but I would definitely want to know that I was being paid fairly and dealt with honestly. I can live with the slow times and waiting for loads (prepared for that), but I don't have any patience for dishonesty. Don't see that changing.

Thx again for some good inside info.

davekc · Dec 14, 2003

We are the same way. We didn't have the patience for their constant game playing. Any company that pays on HHG miles does not respect their drivers. They know they are ripping you off right from the beginning. They said they had to do it to retain customers yet they use that same milage program for their deadhead pay. They would short you on just about everything you could think of and in our case, shortest one month of insurance. In our case they told us to go to the insurance carrier for our refund yet they were the ones collecting it. When it comes to management practices, they have along way to go. They need to try just being honest.

abcwine · Dec 15, 2003

Arky,
Tri-State has changed management and no longer uses HHG miles for their runs. Try to get updated information on carriers when you are looking for companies to haul for.

Good Luck

davekc · Dec 15, 2003

It is good to see that they have seen the light. They need to advertise these changes as most we have talked to have a negative opinion of them. If the have retained the same personell, such as settlement departments ect, then the taking of drivers money and settlements discrepencies probably still exist. I hope for the people still drivering for them, that they have turned a new leaf.

davekc · Dec 15, 2003

Well unfortunately we did some checking and their milage system is a three tier system with the bulk of it caculated out on HHG miles. They say it is 65%. 65% of what? They say the average is aprox. a $1.00 a mile, however simple caculation will result in 10 to 15 percent difference. Add that up over a period of time and you are losing considerable money. HHG miles are only used for the "bonus" plan. You eat the first 50 and usually the last because they say you have reached your destination before you ever get there. Fuel discount program? They advertise that, but it doesn't exist. We ask several times when we were there and they use to have a couple of pennies off a gallon at speedway. Hasn't happened in years. Lease Purchase plan? They own the trucks that they finance and now can't find drivers for them. Who is kidding who? Most of it is obtainable from their own ads. They haven't changed much of anything except promote a few people.

Whiterabbit · Dec 16, 2003

They just kind of disapeared from around here used to see em all the time, guess its the GM thing...last thing i delivered on the shipper documents it was originally tristate (it was crossed out ) go figure...im just glad to be finally running i guess later ill find out if im getting screwed or not, its probably what some of these gypsy companies hope for ...I. e. "well just udse em till they get poed enough,well just get another driver, theyre a dime a dozen, who cares as long as the load gets there...(too bad how a few bad apples can sour someone on a reatively good career.)

abcwine · Dec 16, 2003

Glad to see you are an expert on Tri-State. You should then know that 65% means contractors get paid 65% of the tariff. If you are talking about average loaded mile to a straight truck, it is more like $1.10. What are you talking about 10-15 percent difference? Sometimes you do less miles and get paid for it. (Probably don't hear that too often I bet?) I see about 4.5% difference in miles. Is that bad? Is Tri-State ripping off the contractors with 4.5%?
Most of the miles are paid by pc miler. HHG is used for bonus miles, but at least Tri-State will pay some deadhead. Fuel discount?
How much of a discount does there have to be to be considered a fuel discount? Yes, Tri-State has a program where a few pennies are discounted at the pump at a few different stations. Does that not qualify? Last but not least.......Tri-State does not and will not own any trucks. If they did, that would do them in. They are not like other companies that let their employees own vehicles or lease vehicles to drivers. It is simply a program to get people into the business with fair credit through a dealership and a lien holder. Coming across as knowledgable as you seem to be, you should know that it is extremely difficult for people and dealerships to get financial backing for new vehicles. It is simply a program that eases the lien holder into lending money.
This should probably be enough for the day.
I will let you digest this for awhile.

Thanks again.

davekc · Dec 21, 2003

We clearly stand behind our posts. At no time did we ever make a $1.10 per mile. Not one load ever came close after a period of over a year and a half. Could it be a $1.10 now? Maybe, if they have changed in the last couple of months. You state that they pay 65% of the tariff. Strange when we ask to see the billing they refused. Of course that must be a huge fuel discount program if it is available at a few gas stations. Where are they, Toledo? Bet you won't find one in any other area. Unless, they changed that last month as well. And yes they have bought (lease) their own trucks through alumi-bunk to sell or lease to prospective buyers. That is pretty common knowledge. And yes they refused to return a months insurance, and then blamed it on the insurance carrier when they are the ones collecting. Last but not leastly, upon reviewing or statements, 72% of the runs for a 12 month period were payed at HHG rates. But, maybe they changed that last month also. Most importantly, we don't want someone to make the mistake that we did.

abcwine · Dec 24, 2003

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to you Davekc.
Never is a strong word. Never made $1.10/mile huh. Never???
I would bet my life on it that you hauled some freight that paid you that if not more if you ran with Tri-State for a year and a half!
Never saw the billing? Did you ever look at your settlement statement that told you what was billed and what you got paid? Do you own a calculater? Do the math. Total billed multiplied by 65% will amazingly show you what you got on that particular run. Math is bewildering isn't it? Fuel discounts. It is there and yes in more places than just Ohio. Next time ask and Tri-State can send you a list of all the stations affiliated with the fuel discount. Leased vehicles are leased vehicles leased by the contractor. Did I use the word leased enough. Tri-State has absolutely nothing to do with equipment. Sorry Tri-State does not want that headache. We will leave that up to you seeing that you handle it pretty well. Did you know that Fedex CC has the same leasing program? Hmmm, do they also own them and lease them out. I don't thinks so. I think they are just as smart as Tri-State to stay out of that game. I did here of another company doing that however. Any idea which one that could've been? Insurance? Is Tri-State an insurance company? No. Do they make things easy for contractors by paying the monthly premium to the insurance company as a payroll deduction? Yes. Do they have anything to do with rates and refunds and coverage? Hmmm, let me think about that one.......NO! Motor carrier....insurance company. Which one is Tri-State? Finally, HHG. When GM was kicked to the curb in Feb 2003, that did away with they vast majority of HHg miles. Once again the difference is 4.4% with some runs paying more than what you would find on mapquest. Did that ever happen to you in your fabulous year and a half with Tri-State. Wait don't answer that.....NEVER right? Must of been a lot of changes in that last month huh? If we really want to find the truth, feel free to let me know your unit # and Tri-State can show all the pro #'s that you ran in your year and a half that you may have earned more than that fictitious $1.10/mi.
Enjoy the Season!

davekc · Dec 28, 2003

Happy holidays abcwine as well!
No need to get into anything long and drawn out that isn't already addressed. However, I would be curious to see this supposed list of discount fuel stops. Maybe if you provide that I will provide a unit number. You need that in order to trash a driver via a dac report. And of course it is pretty obvious you work for Tri-State. If all these loads supposedly pay $1.10, then Tri-State owes us alot of money. No one is kidding anyone. A large number of your trucks have defected to FedEx, Panther, Conway and Landstar. As far as Tri-State leasing trucks? If you bought them to re-lease them and you can't find drivers, someone is obviously making those payments. You also mentioned the billing. Just because they say a bill on my statement represents a certain figure, a driver does not know what the customer was truly billed. And of course when asked to provide customer billing documents, the request was refused. Last but not leastly, If a company collects insurance premiums, then fails to pay the insurance carrier, where does one think the fault should lie? And once again we have the statements to prove it. Two statements with the same month on them. Why would Tri-State blame the carrier when they didn't pay them and failed to respond to any other actions?
We have talked to enough former drivers that have experienced these same problems. Tri-State had some nice people working there, but things fell apart for them after losing so much business. One of your own officers testifies to that on this forum. Once again, the purpose of this is to advise future drivers to fully research who they are signing on with. We had a poor experience with Tri-State after they lost GM.
Enough said!

teacel · Dec 28, 2003

I know for a fact that if a driver asks a company they are leased too, to show him or her the bill, or invoice to the shipper it is a must. The company that driver is leased onto must show that invoice to the shipper and it must match the POD or BOL#. They are however aloud to blacken the shippers address, not the name and any other info a driver has no business seeing. That is a federal law, and can be found in the US codes.
I have personally requested the very thing from a company I once worked for, who also refused to show me the billing invoice. I had a gut feeling this company wasn’t giving me the contracted percentage I signed on for, so I took a shot and drug their butts into court. I ended getting a nice payday out of it. They were skimming 5% off the top and calling it administrative fees. The courts said different and made them pay that all back to me.

It may be a good idea that if you are in this same situation and are a member of OOIDA to call their legal department and they will handle it before you have to go to court, as I did.

Weave · Dec 28, 2003

I did a contract load off the internet for my company from Tri-State recently for Caterpillar. I looked at the miles they were paying for, and the miles on PC miler, and there was almost a 50 mile difference. I called and asked my dispatch what the deal was, thinking there was a mistake on the load miles. I was told that the load was based on HHG miles and that was how they paid. Regardless, I could have took or left it, but took it anyway. Odometer miles came up 45 short of pay, so I took about a $50 loss on that load. That HHG miles thing is antiquated and should not be used AT ALL on any load by any carrier in my opinion.
-Weave-

davekc · Dec 29, 2003

I like your recommendations Teacel. When they refused we had thought about some of the stuff you mentioned but were hesitant because of being leased to them. You know the story; make too many waves and they slow or stop your loads. One of those be ready to switch companies when you act. When we did pursue all the maddness with them, we did switch companies and left them. I wish now we would have been more aggressive with it.
Hey Weave, was that you we saw on 635 in Dallas last week. Yelled for you but alot of junk on the cb. Your truck with All-State on the side.....nice ride.
Cat use to be a big Tri-State account and it is a shame they are still screwing drivers with that HHG miles system. We have done some recent loads for them(cat) but they are on PC miler. Fuel surcharge on their loads is 3 or 4 cents a mile. When we were at Tri-State they were paying 1 or 2 cents.Thank God we only had one truck with Tri-State. The loads that we hauled for Cat were not booked through Tri-State. Thought I should mention that.
Thanks everyone for the input!

Weave · Dec 29, 2003

Yes Davekc, that was me you saw in Dallas last week.

-Weave-

davekc · Dec 31, 2003

To the prospective owner operator; Think about Weave's post. If you haul 2 or three loads a week like that, you have lost as much as $150.00 a week. Or between $5200.00 and $7800.00 a year. In addition, carefully look at their deadhead pay. At Tri-State they originally paid 20 cents after the first 50 miles, which was ok. The problem came in that they changed their format around the time they lost GM. Still the same as above but when you where within roughly 50 miles of your deadhead destination, they said via qualcomm, that you reached your destination when you had not. The result is that when you go for the next load, you eat that ending 50 miles. When they pay only HHG miles on deadhead and then you lose 50 to 100 miles (depending on were the load picks up) it is not a pretty picture. Of course some companies don't pay anything, and in that case you have to look at their loaded milage rate, and how much deadhead is going to be on your own dime. My personal opinion is that one needs to average at least $1.00 a mile for ALL miles. Loaded and empty.

Lawrence · Dec 31, 2003

Ok, we have all had our say on this topic. I am locking this thread. If you want to continue - start a fresh post.

Lawrence,
Expediters Online.com

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