Tragic Death for American Military Hero

[RLENT]

Your getting delusional again.

Your comments here (with respect to Dr. Paul the elder) are a matter of public record ...

 

[RLENT]

RLent:


What was said leading down to the "Too funny ... if it weren't so sick........" conclusion was not something to laugh at......or believe to be "Funny".

Yeah ... that's why "Too funny" was modified with "if it weren't so sick" ...

What lead to that conclusion was one just showing ones Ignorance...........plain and simple.....Ignorance.

Since a basic understanding of grammar is necessary to have an actual intelligent conversation, allow me to suggest that you learn to read and comprehend the English language ... and then get back to me ...

 

[RLENT]

You mean kinda like Micheal Moore's "Inconvenient Truths"??

Nope, I don't mean that ...

How could I ... since I don't believe that I've never seen the film that you are referring to ?

Again..............Ignorance is showing plain as day.................

Yes ... and I would think it would be embarrassing for you ...

You should stop doing it.

 

[RLENT]

Apparently it was deemed insensitive by Muttly because Ron Paul said it and you posted it.

I may very well not have said anything about the matter at all - had it not been for the OP raising the issue of Dr. Paul's comments in the first place ...

That the OP found it necessary to use the tragedy of these murders to besmirch the good name of Dr. Paul speaks for itself.

One might easily imagine that if Jesus Christ himself were present and had made the very same comments, that He would merit similar denigration ...

That wouldn't necessarily be a great surprise ... as the bloodthirsty were no fans of Him ...

As for others, it can be seen as insensitive because it breaks the unwritten rule that friends and family should be allowed a 1 week grace period to remember him as they imagine he was. It is just too soon to throw out a judgement.

Kind of like other unwritten rules like the 6 foot ATM space that you should give someone or the rule that you should not go stand in line at Subway when your truck is at the fuel island.

A fair and reasonable criticism I suppose ... more a matter of timing, than of substance ...

 

[RLENT]

Ron Paul said it and Pilgrim posted it. Let his family have the funeral without having Ron Paul popping his mouth off and waxing philosophically in public about it. It wasn't necessary for him to say anything.

It wasn't necessary for any of us to say anything - yet we all choose to exercise our right to do so ...

He should have shut his pie hole already.

Uh-huh ... tell me again about how you "generally like" Ron Paul ... but this time really make an effort and try to make it convincing ...

 

[RLENT]

From the irrepressible Ryan McMaken, over at LRC, commenting on how the neo-con/teo-con terminally-stupid crowd once again reveal themselves not for what they claim to be ... but for what they actually are:

Ron Paul Quotes Jesus, Conservatives Outraged

Remember that time Ron Paul used the Golden Rule to explain his foreign policy? Conservatives booed him for that. So who can be surprised that conservatives, including Rand Paul, have been falling all over themselves to condemn Ron Paul for quoting Jesus - in correct context, by the way - to note that the violence wrought by over a decade of nonstop war in America leads to tragedy on the home front?

Every neocon pundit and middle-American red-blooded conservative took a few minutes out from running around shrieking "boo-yah" and polishing his dually F-250 to be outraged that someone dared suggest that a government employee wasn't a holy relic.

The Daily Caller was the first to the show, posting Paul's twitter post without comment and allowing the comment box to quickly fill with outraged Republicans who were dismayed that anyone would not endorse every action of every single taxpayer-funded soldier who ever drew a bead on some dirt-poor 12-year-old child-soldier 10,000 miles away. Others soon piled on.

The most transparent were the conservatives who claimed to be former supporters of Paul who must now go support some more "patriotic" politician: One who doesn't actually question anything the military does.

One member at RonPaulForums.com said "'Live by the sword, die by the sword' is what the dumbest, stupidest, most delusional people around here would say. There's no way that Ron actually said this. Ugh. How said [sic] and pathetic."

That seems to be the general reaction one gets from conservatives about the Golden Rule also.

This is what it comes down to for most conservatives, of course. All that stuff about laissez faire and freedom and free markets has never been more than an act and an affectation which goes right out the window if someone ever criticizes the US Government in a truly trenchant or penetrating manner.

Most of these sunshine patriots who now whine that Ron Paul has lost their support, wouldn't ever have supported Ron Paul in the first place if Obama weren't in office. Had Ron Paul run against a GOP incumbent, most of these timid and prevaricating "opponents" of big government would have condemned Paul for questioning the glorious deeds of "our" Commander-in-Chief. Among conservatives, Ron Paul has only ever had minority support, for in the end, conservatives love government, as exhibited by their latest outrage. They just love it in a slightly different way from the left liberals.

As I've noted before, the Tea Party movement, and most conservatives who pretend to be for small government, only act when there's a Democrat in office. During eight years of Bush shredding the constitution, spending money like there was no tomorrow, and inflating the money supply with his pals at the central bank, no conservative would walk ten feet to protest the federal government. But about five minutes after Obama was sworn in, the Tea Party protests swelled into a huge disingenuous show that will evaporate five minutes after any Republican is sworn into office, assuming the GOP can actually win a national election with one of the out-of-touch never-had-a-real-job rich boys they insist on nominating.

In the end of course, Ron Paul has never been about rallying people to himself. He has been about the message, and the message is about freedom. It is a logical impossibility to be simultaneously pro-freedom and pro-military. Patrick Henry, who called government soldiers "engines of despotism" knew this. Thomas Jefferson knew this. Every true friend of liberty from William Graham Sumner to Murray Rothbard knew this. And Ron Paul knows it. Some of his supporters, still stuck in the mindset of a form of Geezer Conservatism in which "freedom-lovers" bow and scrape before the US Government, denied that Ron Paul could have even agreed with the Twitter post. No such luck for them. The tradition of laissez faire is a tradition against standing armies, and wars, and deference to military "heroics." Conservatives who are troubled by this should probably be honest with themselves and find a candidate more suitable to their views. I hear Newt Gingrich is still taking donations.

Ron Paul Quotes Jesus, Conservatives Outraged « LewRockwell.com Blog

 

[RLENT]

Again, from Ryan McMaken, addressing a profoundly stupid statement on the part of Dr. Rand Paul:

Rand Paul: Every Government Worker in Uniform is a Hero

Following Ron Paul's truth-telling about the tragic outcomes that are sure to come from time spent in a military where rape, suicide, domestic abuse and general killing are widespread, Sen. Rand Paul immediately took the easy way out and declared that “Chris Kyle was a hero like all Americans who don the uniform to defend our country," [Emphasis mine.]

Yes, every American soldier is a hero, just like the Bronze-Star-winning Timothy McVeigh and the Marine Lee Harvey Oswald. And don't forget all the heroes at Mai Lai.

"The Army," McVeigh said "taught him how to switch off his emotions."

Now, I'm not claiming that all or even most soldiers are like Timothy McVeigh, but to claim, as Rand Paul has done, that every soldier is a hero, is contemptible and shows a probably-invincible ignorance of history. Rand Paul, however, whose full time job now seems to be pandering to neocons shouldn't fear that his words will be examined for every possible meaning, as is the case with his father's tweets. No, as long as one errs on the side of sycophantic praise of the government in the form of its armed agents, then all is fine.

Rand Paul: Every Government Worker in Uniform is a Hero « LewRockwell.com Blog

FWIW: anyone who thinks that Rand Paul will secure significant support from the Liberty Movement simply because he shares a name and some genes with another Dr. Paul is deluding themselves ...

 

[jaminjim]

It seems most of your criticism about the guy is based on the fact that you don't think we should be in the war to begin with. I get that, but why do you feel it necessary to besmirch this guy. What little that you know of him is from his own statements, but what has he done while at war that you detest? When you are at war the object is to kill as many of the people that are trying to kill you as possible, right?

Would you have been happier if the snipper would have allowed the women to kill several Americans because he thought she might be a freedom fighter? Of course not (right?). I'm guessing most soldiers don't get any pleasure out of killing, but if you're shooting at me, or placing a IED to kill me, I'd be happy that you were killed. (obviously not meaning you personally)

In a nut shell, what I'm saying is don't hate the warrior, hate the ones that caused the war.

I still like the idea of putting the leaders of countries who want to go to war out in a field with battle axes.

 

[iceroadtrucker]

Its clearly evident that he was trying to help him by taking him back to where he came from in the relm. You wouldnt understand that and many here wouldnt. Some people cant deal with having killed another human being. Some can. Understand that which was trying to be implamented. Many individuals dont have the common sense that it takes in different life situations. Do you. You may think you do but its quite evident many dont.
Ill leave it at that. All pause and pay respect and end this thread. Its evident the man was doing what he tought would help. Many times it works to release the pain. Somtimes it dont and in this case sadely it didnt. All the smart words of wisdom and College degrees earned wont get the Release but when it comes down to brass tax Ones with PTSD all they realy need is a Release of the Pain and the Fear - Guilt. lets all pause a moment and pay respects to the Fallen.......................................................................................................................
Carry ON.

 

[Pilgrim]

Yeah, 'cause Ron Paul has no idea what it's like to serve in the military.

Oh, wait....

The fact that Ron Paul served in the military (in a safe, non-combat position 50 yrs ago when the draft was in effect) makes his callous comment even more contemptible. But in spite of the out-of-touch attitudes of his squirrelly 'ol dad, Rand Paul obviously appreciates the sacrifices made by today's volunteers who risk life and limb to protect the Constitution that Ron Paul holds so dear. Maybe old Pappy should have just paraphrased Ted Cruz's condolences instead of shooting off his mouth.

 

[muttly]

It wasn't necessary for any of us to say anything - yet we all choose to exercise our right to do so ...


Uh-huh ... tell me again about how you "generally like" Ron Paul ... but this time really make an effort and try to make it convincing ...

The issue with Paul is that he is a public figure or was one recently. His comments were made public by him and given his notoriety, publicity would surely follow. Especially if they were insensitive. I have more of a problem with the timing than anything.

Different than us commenting on it on this forum. No need to try to convince you on anything. You'll just have to figure things out on your own time.

 

[muttly]

The fact that Ron Paul served in the military (in a safe, non-combat position 50 yrs ago when the draft was in effect) makes his callous comment even more contemptible. But in spite of the out-of-touch attitudes of his squirrelly 'ol dad, Rand Paul obviously appreciates the sacrifices made by today's volunteers who risk life and limb to protect the Constitution that Ron Paul holds so dear. Maybe old Pappy should have just paraphrased Ted Cruz's condolences instead of shooting off his mouth.

Ditto Pilgrim. You do realize mentioning Ted Cruz will send a particular member in to convulsions though?

 

[Pilgrim]

To add another chapter to this sad story, it turns out this is another case of an obviously mentally ill nut case being allowed to run loose among the public posing an obvious threat. The US mental health laws need to be seriously reformed so that people like this can hopefully be confined and given treatment, or at least be removed as a danger to society. Eddie Routh and Jimmy Lee Dykes (AL kidnapper) were known to be dangerously unstable, but under today's laws nothing can be done until after they harm someone.

Chris Kyle Killer Was In and Out of Mental Hospital

Alabama hostage taker Jimmy Lee Dykes died at cops' hands - CBS News

 

[layoutshooter]

Mental illness is a real and serious problem. One must be VERY careful to insure that government is either not involved with or as little involved as possible it determining what is or is not a mental illness, how severe and the treatment. Why do I say that? Locking up the 'mentally ill' is a favorite ploy of extreme, either left or right, wing governments. Government has NO business in health care in general and in mental health care in particular.

 

[Turtle]

The fact that Ron Paul served in the military (in a safe, non-combat position 50 yrs ago when the draft was in effect) makes his callous comment even more contemptible. But in spite of the out-of-touch attitudes of his squirrelly 'ol dad, Rand Paul obviously appreciates the sacrifices made by today's volunteers who risk life and limb to protect the Constitution that Ron Paul holds so dear. Maybe old Pappy should have just paraphrased Ted Cruz's condolences instead of shooting off his mouth.

So, you can only be respected and a hero if you volunteered, not drafted, and only then if you served in combat. Got it.

To add another chapter to this sad story, it turns out this is another case of an obviously mentally ill nut case being allowed to run loose among the public posing an obvious threat.

And yet someone handed this obviously mentally ill nutcase with PTSD a semiautomatic weapon, thinking it would give him calm release. You just can't make it up.

 

[layoutshooter]

Are people more dead when killed with a bullet fired out of a semi-auto than say a bolt action or a pump? What difference does it make what kind of action a rifle is. Assuming equal calibers, powder charges and bullet weights, performance will likely be very similar. Semi's are always slightly less accurate, assuming equal quality rifles, than other repeating rifles.

PLEASE don't insult me by saying that one can kill more of anything with a semi than other actions, PLEASE tell me that no one in here is THAT stupid!

 

[Pilgrim]

Mental illness is a real and serious problem. One must be VERY careful to insure that government is either not involved with or as little involved as possible it determining what is or is not a mental illness, how severe and the treatment. Why do I say that? Locking up the 'mentally ill' is a favorite ploy of extreme, either left or right, wing governments. Government has NO business in health care in general and in mental health care in particular.

Agreed - Feds need to stay out of it. Fifty years ago JFK dismantled mental health programs run by the states and created an expensive disaster. Control should be returned to the states.

E. Fuller Torrey: Fifty Years of Failing America's Mentally Ill - WSJ.com

 

[layoutshooter]

Agreed - Feds need to stay out of it. Fifty years ago JFK dismantled mental health programs run by the states and created an expensive disaster. Control should be returned to the states.

E. Fuller Torrey: Fifty Years of Failing America's Mentally Ill - WSJ.com

Better yet, return control to the medical profession.

 

[witness23]

Are people more dead when killed with a bullet fired out of a semi-auto than say a bolt action or a pump? What difference does it make what kind of action a rifle is. Assuming equal calibers, powder charges and bullet weights, performance will likely be very similar. Semi's are always slightly less accurate, assuming equal quality rifles, than other repeating rifles.

PLEASE don't insult me by saying that one can kill more of anything with a semi than other actions, PLEASE tell me that no one in here is THAT stupid!

Was this reply meant for another thread possibly?

 

[layoutshooter]

Nope, read the post above mine. More like a comment on what is being said about semi's in general these days. It was not meant to 'pick' on Turtle, just to highlight what is going on.