Toy Drone a Sellout Hit!

[Ragman]

Yeah, citizens would much prefer that thousands of their fellow citizens die in a terrorist attack on the towers than for one terrorist to be waterboarded. Citizens don't give a **** about their fellow citizens being murdered by the thousands, only about protecting terrorists from being waterboarded.

I'm amazed at the number of people in this country that think it is ok to drag the U.S. down to this level.

 

[LDB]

I'm amazed at the level of citizens who believe it is ok to drag the U.S. down to the level of thousands of citizens dead as well, when there's a way to keep the citizens from being murdered by terrorists. The terrorists are winning all right, at least in some minds and souls.

 

[Moot]

I'm amazed at the level of citizens who believe it is ok to drag the U.S. down to the level of thousands of citizens dead as well, when there's a way to keep the citizens from being murdered by terrorists.

Yeah, 219 dead would certainly be a more acceptable number.

 

[RLENT]

Yeah, citizens would much prefer that thousands of their fellow citizens die in a terrorist attack on the towers than for one terrorist to be waterboarded.

See there ... now I knew you had another straw man tucked away there somewhere ...

Actually what you posit above isn't necessarily the case at all, in all cases ... it's just that many (unlike you evidently) perhaps don't trust their government: 1. getting it right in terms of competency of actually selecting the correct target (ie. an actual terrorist) and/or 2. don't trust some in their government in terms of not using the power in a careless, abusive, or malicious manner ...

In the case of no. 1 above, what happened in Afghanistan is quite instructive - we offered a bounty for "terrorists" ...

It doesn't really take a genius (although one does have to be a bit above the level of a complete and total dolt) to envision what the unintended consequences might be of such a thing ... in a place where extreme poverty is rampant and moral standards might be more like the jungle than refined, polite soceity ...

People turned in many, many people who were not terrorists ... but who they had grudges against or were their enemies, rivals, etc. ... or for no real reason at all ... other than just to collect ...

As to no. 2, a good example might a fellow named Dilawar - a taxi driver (not a terrorist apparently) - who had his legs "pulpified" ... and was ultimately tortured to death (murdered) by US soldiers at Bagram ...


Some people who have these types of concerns might get a little concerned when someone like yourself - who appears just a little too eager and enthusiastic to have violence inflicted on behalf of the state - vociferously asserts that "this can save lives" ... while at the same time evidencing no recognition whatsoever that such methods can also destroy lives ...

Beyond that there seems to be some question as to whether waterboarding is actually even effective ...

And then of course there is the ethical/moral aspect of it ...

Citizens don't give a **** about their fellow citizens being murdered by the thousands, only about protecting terrorists from being waterboarded.

No - what decent, moral citizens (anywhere) care about is seeing true justice done ... which necessarily includes ensuring that those who are, in fact, innocent are not punished as though they were guilty ...

Of course, you have to understand that I say all of the above after having read your "round up all the undesirables and get rid of them" rant - which I considered to highly un-American by the way (and slightly unhinged) - with respect to some relatively peaceful festival, fair, or event up in Dearborn ... relatively peaceful that is ... until it was invaded by a couple of Jihadists for Jesus looking to cause trouble where none in fact existed ...

 

[RLENT]

I'm amazed at the level of citizens who believe it is ok to drag the U.S. down to the level of thousands of citizens dead as well, when there's a way to keep the citizens from being murdered by terrorists.

You should study the concept of a slippery slope ... before you end up sliding all the way to the pit at the bottom ...

The terrorists are winning all right, at least in some minds and souls.

You need only to examine yourself to see that it is so ...

In fact, in your specific case, they have actually won ... completely ...

 

[Turtle]

[SUP]New from[/SUP] [SUB]

[/SUB]
The Slippery Slope Slip 'N Slide Waterboarding Lego Set.

 

[RLENT]

BTW Leo ... just as a point of record, I think the actual premise IIRC is:

"Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends."

rather than

"Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down others' lives for his friends."

 

[Tennesseahawk]

Yeah, our resident geniuses are right. To hell with the thousands of citizens in the World Trade Center and the hundreds of responders. Who needs them? We have plenty more citizens left. It's much more important that people know the exact mechanical procedure of waterboarding, the "how" it's done, than we save even one citizen's life by using it against some terrorist. Saving even one life by being mean to someone isn't worth it. It isn't the right thing to do. Lousy **** citizens. How dare they expect everything possible to be done to save them. Yeah, lucky thing we have perfect people as members here, geniuses who know more than anyone and can look down their noses at everyone beneath them, that being everyone.

Funny, but what exactly would that mean if (and it's a sarcastic 'if') the government IS the terrorist group? You don't think our government is capable of "test driving" torture cases, to get the courts, pundits, and people on their side, so it won't be so bad when they use it on their own people?

 

[Tennesseahawk]

Torture is illegal, immoral, and counterproductive. And unacceptable to any citizen who would like their country to be a force for good.

Sorry... had to throw up in my mouth a little. Not on you... that last sentence just reminded me of that wonderful Navy commercial.

 

[Tennesseahawk]

I'm amazed at the level of citizens who believe it is ok to drag the U.S. down to the level of thousands of citizens dead as well, when there's a way to keep the citizens from being murdered by terrorists. The terrorists are winning all right, at least in some minds and souls.

The blood is ultimately on the hands of the citizens, but not for what you accuse them of. They elected the real assassins.

 

[cheri1122]

Sorry... had to throw up in my mouth a little. Not on you... that last sentence just reminded me of that wonderful Navy commercial.

Had I ever seen that commercial, I'd have phrased it differently. I haven't seen it because I go to great lengths to avoid seeing commercials, except when I choose to see them. I resent being manipulated, and have a lot more faith in their ability to do it, than mine to resist it, sigh. 'They' are pros, I'm just an amateur.

 

[Tennesseahawk]

Had I ever seen that commercial, I'd have phrased it differently. I haven't seen it because I go to great lengths to avoid seeing commercials, except when I choose to see them. I resent being manipulated, and have a lot more faith in their ability to do it, than mine to resist it, sigh. 'They' are pros, I'm just an amateur.

Here's one of them. Putting your hand over your heart is optional. Nausea likely.

 

[LDB]

Excellent commercial. I can't think of his name at the moment but I like the guy doing the voice over.

 

[Tennesseahawk]

Excellent commercial. I can't think of his name at the moment but I like the guy doing the voice over.

Figured you'd like that. It's just that obvious.

 

[RLENT]

Excellent commercial.

Excellent propaganda ...

 

[Tennesseahawk]

You can tell the same lie a thousand times, but it never gets anymore true. So close your eyes once more and once more believe, that they all still believe in you.