Time to be the dart board!

[davekc]

The problem in many cases is that some operate without a plan or are just clueless to their costs. When they haul for that cheap "bottom feeder" rate, it affects the whole industry in a negative fashion. That is the real issue. Not "lets see how cheap we can run so we can get a few more loads". That is nothing more than a quick fix and drives the rate down. Short term benefit for hot dog money probably yes. Long term wise, you are talking old bread and gourmet ketchup.
To be fair though, it is this same line of thinking that some of the larger truckloads are looking at. Bring in foreign labor because they work cheap, or, lets lower the age requirements of drivers so we can put kids in the seats. They will work a little cheaper. Several companies are already making those proposals. Just a matter of what one wants to settle for.

 

[Ragman]

I continue to hear about falling rates and bottom feeders, yet I fail to hear any solutions.

Just say "no" to cheap freight is not a solution, as there is always somebody that will run at that rate. I don't know the answer.

 

[Unclebob]

And they won't last too long. But don't worry some one else will be along to take there place. Rinse and repeat.

The bottom feeding carriers are always happy to sign up a newbie and take advantage of them.


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[Moot]

During the past 10 years or so, expedite carriers have become more and more like truck load carriers. LTL carriers are following TL also.

 

[Unclebob]

Maybe there is no problem. I'm sure if you asked the executives at FedEx they'll say they haven't had any problems getting raises all these years. Maybe we're just not as hard working as they are.


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[jjoerger]

If it were not so easy to get into expediting with a van maybe the rates would go up. No CDL, medical card, IRP Tag, IFTA, logs, etc. makes it so easy for anyone with a van and drivers license to jump into the business. And it seems most carriers will sign on anyone that can pass a drug test.

 

[xiggi]

One of the problems is comparing apples to oranges. You look at your average per PAID MILE. At Crossroads we look at our rate for ALL MILES.

I might have a load that pays $1.20 per LOADED mile. When you include your DH to pick and possibly DH out from your drop you're true rate might be .90 mile. THATS THE ONLY NUMBER THAT REALLY MATTERS. All other definitions of rate are just ego boosters.

Total paid for load divided by total miles.

Xiggi, I don't know if you use total, paid, loaded or air miles to calculate your rate. It doesn't really matter to me nor should it matter to anyone else. As long as your happy with your system.

I have a business plan that works for me. As long as you have a plan and stick to it you have a chance for success. If you don't have a well thought out business plan you chance of failure goes up dramatically.


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I always look at all miles because that's part of the cost of doing business. Air miles are for fantasies. The cost of doing business involves much more than those directly associated to a van in my book.

 

[Moot]

I am continue to hear about falling rates and bottom feeders, yet I fail to hear any solutions.

Just say "no" to cheap freight is not a solution, as there is always somebody that will run at that rate. I don't know the answer.

There will always be someone willing to run for a cheaper rate until there isn't anyone left that can or will run for that cheaper rate. Eventually there will be a real driver shortage. But that may be a long time coming. Mexico could ease the driver shortage here for a few years. Relaxed immigration with China would give the U.S. even more years. And then there's robotic trucks...

Current drivers will have to accept the fact that we are unskilled labor and easily replaced. As such, freight rates and wages reflect that. Live with it.

 

[Tennesseahawk]

Current drivers will have to accept the fact that we are unskilled labor and easily replaced. As such, freight rates and wages reflect that. Live with it.

You're absolutely right - van drivers are unskilled labor. So are politicians. But it's not like the problems vans are seeing, doesn't happen in straights or t/t. There are people in all three categories who are convinced to run harder, not smarter. In fact, truckload is full of those people, and I would suggest they are a higher per capita than with van drivers. What's not killing truck rates is the ratio of loads per truck. The bottom feeders and mega companies can't take ALL of the loads; which leaves a number of them for those demanding good rates.

 

[ntimevan]

OVM...just for you...lol

 

[OntarioVanMan]

OVM...just for you...lol

No football game today... This filled in a boring Sunday nicely .... Some good points as usual on a very old topic...

 

[paullud]

I look at things like this in the opposite direction. Instead of thinking that vans want too much I say that ST and TT are running too cheap.

 

[RoadHouse]

What gets me is that Tractor trailer drivers are not unskilled labor and the rates they run for are nothing less than appalling. I can understand the cargo van rates going in the crapper...because anyone can drive one of those. But for the straight truck rates to go down as much as they have when it requires a lot of skill to drive one of those things is beyond me.

 

[RoadHouse]

To be fair to OVM on this issue, 80 cents per mile can work if you stayed in a specific area and you are always loaded. Running cheap is fine if you can cut out all of the additional expenses that living on the road eats up those profits. You also have to take into account the amount of time you invest in this job. If you are hanging out in a parking lot all weekend waiting for a load, you're still working, you just not being compensated for your time. You are always tethered to your telephone and even have to take your afternoon expediter nap just in case you get that call for an all night run. It's not just the driving you should be compensated for. Now if you're running in a similar fashion to what Fastman is running, and you do not spend a lot of time in parking lots, I think a 80 cents to a dollar a mile can actually work. I would even run for 80 cents per mile if I had a round trip load with limited deadhead and then got to sleep in my own bed in between runs. But if you're going to spend 12 months living in your van, away from home, in all manner of bad weather, you are really ****ing away your life for pennies. You can go to work for the government as a garbage truck driver, janitor, or any low level job and make more money than you can in a cargo van. What it all boils down to is what is your time/life worth to you? Howard Stern says your net worth is what someone is willing to pay you for your time. If you feel you're only worth 80 cents per mile, then so be it! I hope my life is worth more than 80 cents per mile! lol

 

[skyraider]

To be fair to OVM on this issue, 80 cents per mile can work if you stayed in a specific area and you are always loaded. Running cheap is fine if you can cut out all of the additional expenses that living on the road eats up those profits. You also have to take into account the amount of time you invest in this job. If you are hanging out in a parking lot all weekend waiting for a load, you're still working, you just not being compensated for your time. You are always tethered to your telephone and even have to take your afternoon expediter nap just in case you get that call for an all night run. It's not just the driving you should be compensated for. Now if you're running in a similar fashion to what Fastman is running, and you do not spend a lot of time in parking lots, I think a 80 cents to a dollar a mile can actually work. I would even run for 80 cents per mile if I had a round trip load with limited deadhead and then got to sleep in my own bed in between runs. But if you're going to spend 12 months living in your van, away from home, in all manner of bad weather, you are really ****ing away your life for pennies. You can go to work for the government as a garbage truck driver, janitor, or any low level job and make more money than you can in a cargo van. What it all boils down to is what is your time/life worth to you? Howard Stern says your net worth is what someone is willing to pay you for your time. If you feel you're only worth 80 cents per mile, then so be it! I hope my life is worth more than 80 cents per mile! lol

Driving a van truly is recreational driving, think about it.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

I look at things like this in the opposite direction. Instead of thinking that vans want too much I say that ST and TT are running too cheap.

Yep even some of the straights that have commented here ...seem happy with their low rates I, d peg about $2.00 as the low standard .....

 

[Tennesseahawk]

Yep even some of the straights that have commented here ...seem happy with their low rates I, d peg about $2.00 as the low standard .....

It should be $2, and t/ts should be $3, according to what prices used to be, adjusted by inflation. Problem is, our customers aren't a captive audience. There is plenty of competition for them to shop around.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

To be fair to OVM on this issue, 80 cents per mile can work if you stayed in a specific area and you are always loaded. Running cheap is fine if you can cut out all of the additional expenses that living on the road eats up those profits. You also have to take into account the amount of time you invest in this job. If you are hanging out in a parking lot all weekend waiting for a load, you're still working, you just not being compensated for your time. You are always tethered to your telephone and even have to take your afternoon expediter nap just in case you get that call for an all night run. It's not just the driving you should be compensated for. Now if you're running in a similar fashion to what Fastman is running, and you do not spend a lot of time in parking lots, I think a 80 cents to a dollar a mile can actually work. I would even run for 80 cents per mile if I had a round trip load with limited deadhead and then got to sleep in my own bed in between runs. But if you're going to spend 12 months living in your van, away from home, in all manner of bad weather, you are really ****ing away your life for pennies. You can go to work for the government as a garbage truck driver, janitor, or any low level job and make more money than you can in a cargo van. What it all boils down to is what is your time/life worth to you? Howard Stern says your net worth is what someone is willing to pay you for your time. If you feel you're only worth 80 cents per mile, then so be it! I hope my life is worth more than 80 cents per mile! lol

first of all this isn't about me... This is supposed to be a debate on the pros and cons and the situations each "independent operator runs under. Each has their own little money machine...to which is their own choice to set how they operate and at what profit margins..... True? To me each O/O has their own set of specific criteria to meet.... And each has to live within that .... And if they are happy and can live with that I don't see the problem .....

Many of the commenters here, have in past conversations said they d take 80-95 to get out of a jam or even to get moving.

My opinion is a steady diet of .80 would not be a good thing BUT that's not for me to judge ....the guy in the seat has to be the judge of that alone! If he can live with that my hats is off to him/her.

 

[highway star]

If a rate falls in the forest...

...and there's no woman there to hear it, is it still wrong?

 

[highway star]

first of all this isn't about me... This is supposed to be a debate on the pros and cons and the situations each "independent operator runs under. Each has their own little money machine...to which is their own choice to set how they operate and at what profit margins..... True? To me each O/O has their own set of specific criteria to meet.... And each has to live within that .... And if they are happy and can live with that I don't see the problem .....

The rest of that paragraph contradicts the first sentence. This is about you, a guy nearing retirement that doesn't need to think about investing in another truck and justifying running cheaper because you feel like it suits your needs. The heck with the future others will have to deal with...