Time to be the dart board!

[Tennesseahawk]

that is exactly what we are discussing..... the pros and cons....

IM thinking not everyone can be lumped into the same pile.....everyone has their own as Xiggi pointed out.... CPM.....and to me that is the bargaining chip....IF someones has a really low CPM.....they can run at say .80 and still NET the same amount as someone with a higher CPM. just common cents....put another way if ones CPM is .25 and someone elses is .40 .....the 25 operator can do a load .15 cheaper and make equal to the .40 operator.....think thats called business and using that advantage to profit!

Because your cost of living is less, would you take less per hour at the steel mill, while all of your buddies there are making twice as much? Our industry is lacking a huge sense of pride, in how much our labor is really worth. Instead, we look to make that up in volume, and listen to what society dictates we NEED.

 

[xiggi]

You keep going to van operating costs. Don't you place any value on yourself? Are you your truck or are you a person who brings value to the equation?

I would put my gross and net up against 90% of those running for under a dollar. I'm more than my truck and deserve better.

Just because I'm sitting doesn't mean I'm not making money it just isn't from expedite, down time doesn't have to be profit less it can be used to a person's advantage with a little effort.

 

[jjoerger]

If you were working hourly would you take a pay cut to get more hours?

 

[Tennesseahawk]

But as everyone plays how low can you go, we all lose in the end. The general rate that everyone used to run for has fallen 35 to 40 cpm in just the last few years.
In an industry where it harder everyday to make ends meet, playing low ball for even a short period of time just doesn't make sense to me.

That's the point I was making when OVM and I were in that big tiff about lowballing. Once enough lowballers get rates to be .20 lower than last year, and everyone gets used to it, then another group of lowballers will work for .20 less this year, which will be the standard for next year. But I guess that's what happens when an overabundance of people get into an industry because it's "easy."

I read a post on another site yesterday, that went something like this... If you are consistently high in your rates, the brokers know what to expect from you. But if you waver, and start taking lower bids, then they'll expect that all the time.

Being branded as a guy who will take it anyway he can get it, will always get it low.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

You keep going to van operating costs. Don't you place any value on yourself? Are you your truck or are you a person who brings value to the equation?

I would put my gross and net up against 90% of those running for under a dollar. I'm more than my truck and deserve better.

Just because I'm sitting doesn't mean I'm not making money it just isn't from expedite, down time doesn't have to be profit less it can be used to a person's advantage with a little effort.

true.........

 

[OntarioVanMan]

That's the point I was making when OVM and I were in that big tiff about lowballing. Once enough lowballers get rates to be .20 lower than last year, and everyone gets used to it, then another group of lowballers will work for .20 less this year, which will be the standard for next year. But I guess that's what happens when an overabundance of people get into an industry because it's "easy."

I read a post on another site yesterday, that went something like this... If you are consistently high in your rates, the brokers know what to expect from you. But if you waver, and start taking lower bids, then they'll expect that all the time.

Being branded as a guy who will take it anyway he can get it, will always get it low.

And whom sets the rates? Supply and demand? The marketplace? It sure ain't you and me....

And before you guys get all silly Iam not talking .50 - 70 cent rates neither ...

and it appears you are thinking collective instead of independent business operators in competition with one another. you sound almost like Union people. We deserve this and we deserve that....

 

[xiggi]

It seems like we are thinking as intelligent independents, the same way you thought before and chastised others for not doing.

 

[Tennesseahawk]

And whom sets the rates? Supply and demand? The marketplace? It sure ain't you and me....

And before you guys get all silly Iam not talking .50 - 70 cent rates neither ...

and it appears you are thinking collective instead of independent business operators in competition with one another. you sound almost like Union people. We deserve this and we deserve that....

We are independents, but as such, we still need to try to push what the market will bear. That gadget maker has jacked his price up three times, yet still enjoys freight rates below what the 80s gave us. Isn't it time we had ours, as an industry? I'm not talking unions here, I'm talking PRIDE.

 

[Turtle]

So to spite that broker, shipper whom ever you'd sit there for 3 more days incurring costs just so you can keep that .15 cents?

No, I wouldn't, but that's a different issue than the CPM case you're making.

another poke: a fleet of vans comes out and they get 50 mpg... You think they will really sit there and not be competitive?

I'm sure some will, but the reason for getting a 50 MPG vehicle is to make more profit, not simply to run cheaper so you can net the same as other vehicles.

Ken all I am trying to point at is the competitive nature and the supply and demand issue.
I know its touchy when one has a higher cost to do the same business then the next guy..., and lower pricing threatens his way of life.... They tend to get defensive and that's ok quite natural

Having a lower CPM allows one to have flexibility in taking lower rates when needed, but it's not much of a case for actively seeking out lower rates routinely when it's not necessary.

Don't forget that once you hit a certain number of miles your CPM actually goes up (tires, maintenance, repair). 80,000 miles at .95 is $76,000, and 100,000 miles at .80 is $80,000. That's just a $4000 difference for 20,000 miles driven. Rule of Thirds show that that $4000 becomes roughly $1333 net additional for those 20,000 miles. Even if you round up to $1500, that's still just 7.5 cents a mile extra for all those additional miles. At 2000 miles a week that's 10 weeks worth of work for an extra $1500 at the end of the year. So running more miles for less money with a lower CPM looks like significantly more revenue, and it is, but it's mostly just an illusion. Instead of driving less to make more, you end up driving more to make the same, or less.

Another example :
2 stores side by side but straddling the border of states... 1 has higher state business taxes and a higher minimum wage so .... One either has to drop his prices to compete or move from area across state line! Or find a supplier with cheaper prices.

It depends on whether his mental state and business is price-driven. If it's retail, you're probably right, but if it's service-oriented, value-added services can mean the difference even with higher costs and prices. Near where I live you have Fulton, KY and South Fulton, TN where that very thing happens daily.

 

[Treadmill]

Where is the American dream that we all had at one time. I for one have not given up on that dream. I don't run cheap because I want to make as much as I can now so I can live life better when I retire. I run less miles and make more per mile. Last year I averaged over $1.30 per paid mile. Yes I got paid more and sat more ($10 per day) but I was rested up and ready to go. I had peace of mind and I still do today.

 

[davekc]

If you were working hourly would you take a pay cut to get more hours?

Suprisingly, it does appear a few would. Just to be competitive of course.

 

[Turtle]

If you were working hourly would you take a pay cut to get more hours?

Suprisingly, it does appear a few would. Just to be competitive of course.

You can justify that by moving to a cheaper apartment closer to work so that your costs are less.

 

[Tennesseahawk]

You can justify that by moving to a cheaper apartment closer to work so that your costs are less.

Ramen noodles anyone?

 

[Dynamite 1]

Ramen noodles anyone?

No, hotdogs split in half !!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Where is the American dream that we all had at one time. I for one have not given up on that dream. I don't run cheap because I want to make as much as I can now so I can live life better when I retire. I run less miles and make more per mile. Last year I averaged over $1.30 per paid mile. Yes I got paid more and sat more ($10 per day) but I was rested up and ready to go. I had peace of mind and I still do today.

The American dream has nothing to do with rate per mile... It does however include freedom to choose that rate and how much you would run at that rate.... many . Many members here run for between .80 to $1.00 I would imagine as aggregate rate....so in a way yes.... You've chosen your rate and are happy with that choice you found your dream and good for you..... If others have their happiness/dream at a different level shouldn't they be happy with their choice?

 

[OntarioVanMan]

We are independents, but as such, we still need to try to push what the market will bear. That gadget maker has jacked his price up three times, yet still enjoys freight rates below what the 80s gave us. Isn't it time we had ours, as an industry? I'm not talking unions here, I'm talking PRIDE.

I totally agree... This is supposed to be a debate about the issue of freight rates and related CPM.... Not about you or I in specifics....

 

[Tennesseahawk]

I totally agree... This is supposed to be a debate about the issue of freight rates and related CPM.... Not about you or I in specifics....

Freight rates come from who accepts them.

 

[scottm4211]

If a rate falls in the forest...

 

[Unclebob]

Where is the American dream that we all had at one time. I for one have not given up on that dream. I don't run cheap because I want to make as much as I can now so I can live life better when I retire. I run less miles and make more per mile. Last year I averaged over $1.30 per paid mile. Yes I got paid more and sat more ($10 per day) but I was rested up and ready to go. I had peace of mind and I still do today.

One of the problems is comparing apples to oranges. You look at your average per PAID MILE. At Crossroads we look at our rate for ALL MILES.

I might have a load that pays $1.20 per LOADED mile. When you include your DH to pick and possibly DH out from your drop you're true rate might be .90 mile. THATS THE ONLY NUMBER THAT REALLY MATTERS. All other definitions of rate are just ego boosters.

Total paid for load divided by total miles.

Xiggi, I don't know if you use total, paid, loaded or air miles to calculate your rate. It doesn't really matter to me nor should it matter to anyone else. As long as your happy with your system.

I have a business plan that works for me. As long as you have a plan and stick to it you have a chance for success. If you don't have a well thought out business plan you chance of failure goes up dramatically.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[scottm4211]

Unclebob that's all well and good but it's the starter of this thread who seemed concerned what others should drive for.