JustAddRubber
Expert Expediter
Are three axle (heavy D'S) rigs worth the money put into them compaired to the income?
Thank
GJ
Thank
GJ
Three axle Rig
- Thread starter JustAddRubber
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SHARP327
Veteran Expediter
WELL THIS IS JUST A PERSONAL OPINION! I HAVE ONE AND HAVE YET HAD THE NEED TO USE IT FOR A REAL HEAVY LOAD. I FEEL THAT I SHOULD HAVE NOT BEEN TALKED INTO BUYING THIS SET UP, BUT BY BUYING THE TRUCK WITH A GVWR OF 54,000# I DIDN'T HAVE TO PAY SALES TAX OF OVER $6,000.00 HERE IN KY.
SOMETHING TO KEEP IN MIND IS THAT IN MOST CASES A D-UNIT WITH A 32,000 GVWR CAN CARRY AROUND 13,000# BUT ONE WITH AN AUX. AXEL IN THE UP POSITION CAN ONLY CARRY AROUND 9,500# BECAUSE THE WEIGHT OF THE AUX. AXEL AFFECTS YOUR LOAD CARRING CAPACITY.
ALSO CHECK INTO THE LOCATION OF ANY PREASURE REGULATORS IF THE TRUCK IS EQUIPED WITH AN AXLE THAT CAN RAISED OR LOWERED AS NEEDED,YOU MAY WANT TO CHECK OUT BOTH POST CONCERNING "AUX AXELS" ON THE GENERAL FORUM.
THESE OPINIONS WERE BASED ON ROUGH FIGURES THAT I TRIED TO REMEMBER AND NOT ACTUAL NUMBERS.
I HOPE THIS HELPS YOU OUT! AND IF YOU DECIDE TO GET ONE YOU WILL NEED TO DECIDE IF YOUR NEEDS REQUIRE A PUSHER OR PULLER AUX. AXLE! I HAVE A PUSHER WHICH IS IN FRONT OF MY DRIVE AXEL WHICH CAN REDUCE THE WEIGHT ON MY STEERS.
TAKE CARE OUT THERE! SHARP327
SOMETHING TO KEEP IN MIND IS THAT IN MOST CASES A D-UNIT WITH A 32,000 GVWR CAN CARRY AROUND 13,000# BUT ONE WITH AN AUX. AXEL IN THE UP POSITION CAN ONLY CARRY AROUND 9,500# BECAUSE THE WEIGHT OF THE AUX. AXEL AFFECTS YOUR LOAD CARRING CAPACITY.
ALSO CHECK INTO THE LOCATION OF ANY PREASURE REGULATORS IF THE TRUCK IS EQUIPED WITH AN AXLE THAT CAN RAISED OR LOWERED AS NEEDED,YOU MAY WANT TO CHECK OUT BOTH POST CONCERNING "AUX AXELS" ON THE GENERAL FORUM.
THESE OPINIONS WERE BASED ON ROUGH FIGURES THAT I TRIED TO REMEMBER AND NOT ACTUAL NUMBERS.
I HOPE THIS HELPS YOU OUT! AND IF YOU DECIDE TO GET ONE YOU WILL NEED TO DECIDE IF YOUR NEEDS REQUIRE A PUSHER OR PULLER AUX. AXLE! I HAVE A PUSHER WHICH IS IN FRONT OF MY DRIVE AXEL WHICH CAN REDUCE THE WEIGHT ON MY STEERS.
TAKE CARE OUT THERE! SHARP327
I think alot of that question rests with which carrier you are going to drive for. While it may give you more opportunity in certain areas for freight, you have to weigh that against the extra costs that come with it. My personal experience is that it doesn't warrant it. That additional axle will cost more with additional maintenence, taxes, and higher fuel costs.
And I quess in some cases....higher fines if it is a tag axle
And I quess in some cases....higher fines if it is a tag axle
My wife and I will order a new class 8 straight truck soon. It will have not a tag axle but two drive axles; that's twin screws, 10 tires, just like tractors.
We had the same question you have. We researched it carefully and concluded that in our case, with our specific truck, two axles will NOT pay for themselves in heavy freight or additional income therefrom. We don't need two axles for additional income. We need them for additional comfort.
Expedited freight earns the money it does not so much because of weight but because of the speed and care with which you transport freight. Even though our current truck can carry 13,000 pounds (D unit), some of our best paying loads have weighed less than 100 lbs. In nine months of running two different class 8, 22-foot box, D-unit trucks, we've only filled the box twice and approached our maximum weight limit once.
So why are we buying twin screws? Because the truck itself empty will be so heavy that to carry any meaningful freight at all, we'll need a second axle. This truck will have a custom sleeper on a class 8 chasis with reefer, generator, landing gear, freight handling equipment and our toys. It's a spending and lifestyle choice we made. We want to be more comfortable than the freight we haul.
That's the deal. Creature comforts add weight and cost. We don't need a fancy new class 8 truck to make good money in expediting. Hundreds of expediters are doing great right now in class 7 trucks. They haul the same freight and earn the same money the class 8 drivers do. They spend less money on their trucks (at least in the short run) and have more money to bank or spend outside their business. We're going with a class 8 because we're on the road all the time and we want to live well when we are.
Why twin screws instead of a tag axle? Because with twin screws we can order a heavier frame from the factory. That saves us the expense of stiffening the frame rails and adding a tag axle later. And if we had a tag axle, it would be down most of the time anyway.
I know that flies in the face of some advice some of the experienced drivers here and other places have given. Conventional wisdom has it that a lift axle is cheaper than twin screws. Not so when you consider the frame rail issue as described above. We ran the numbers and the choice was clear.
Of course, frame rail stiffening is optional. Truck frames don't break. Stiffening the rails reduces "gallop." That's the flexing up and down of the rail as the truck drives down the road. Gallop reduction is a creature comfort thing. Most freight won't mind if it feels the bumps in the road. We'd rather not feel the bumps.
The savings amount to thousands of dollars, more than enough to offset the additional toll and maintenance costs twin screws will bring over the truck's life cycle. We've done toll analysis as part of this research. Only a few toll entities charge by the axle and the extra charges don't add up to much. Most entities charge by weight, which renders the single axle/two axle toll cost difference moot.
I should add that it's not just about creature comforts. The reefer unit and insulated box add a lot of weight too. We know from our previous loads that the reefer and insulated box will more than pay for themselves over time. Twin screws provide four wheel drive traction and full-time braking that a single drive axle with lift axle configuration would not. We like the added safety.
For us, FET tax is a given, not because we're adding a second axle, but because the truck is too heavy to avoid it anyway.
We had the same question you have. We researched it carefully and concluded that in our case, with our specific truck, two axles will NOT pay for themselves in heavy freight or additional income therefrom. We don't need two axles for additional income. We need them for additional comfort.
Expedited freight earns the money it does not so much because of weight but because of the speed and care with which you transport freight. Even though our current truck can carry 13,000 pounds (D unit), some of our best paying loads have weighed less than 100 lbs. In nine months of running two different class 8, 22-foot box, D-unit trucks, we've only filled the box twice and approached our maximum weight limit once.
So why are we buying twin screws? Because the truck itself empty will be so heavy that to carry any meaningful freight at all, we'll need a second axle. This truck will have a custom sleeper on a class 8 chasis with reefer, generator, landing gear, freight handling equipment and our toys. It's a spending and lifestyle choice we made. We want to be more comfortable than the freight we haul.
That's the deal. Creature comforts add weight and cost. We don't need a fancy new class 8 truck to make good money in expediting. Hundreds of expediters are doing great right now in class 7 trucks. They haul the same freight and earn the same money the class 8 drivers do. They spend less money on their trucks (at least in the short run) and have more money to bank or spend outside their business. We're going with a class 8 because we're on the road all the time and we want to live well when we are.
Why twin screws instead of a tag axle? Because with twin screws we can order a heavier frame from the factory. That saves us the expense of stiffening the frame rails and adding a tag axle later. And if we had a tag axle, it would be down most of the time anyway.
I know that flies in the face of some advice some of the experienced drivers here and other places have given. Conventional wisdom has it that a lift axle is cheaper than twin screws. Not so when you consider the frame rail issue as described above. We ran the numbers and the choice was clear.
Of course, frame rail stiffening is optional. Truck frames don't break. Stiffening the rails reduces "gallop." That's the flexing up and down of the rail as the truck drives down the road. Gallop reduction is a creature comfort thing. Most freight won't mind if it feels the bumps in the road. We'd rather not feel the bumps.
The savings amount to thousands of dollars, more than enough to offset the additional toll and maintenance costs twin screws will bring over the truck's life cycle. We've done toll analysis as part of this research. Only a few toll entities charge by the axle and the extra charges don't add up to much. Most entities charge by weight, which renders the single axle/two axle toll cost difference moot.
I should add that it's not just about creature comforts. The reefer unit and insulated box add a lot of weight too. We know from our previous loads that the reefer and insulated box will more than pay for themselves over time. Twin screws provide four wheel drive traction and full-time braking that a single drive axle with lift axle configuration would not. We like the added safety.
For us, FET tax is a given, not because we're adding a second axle, but because the truck is too heavy to avoid it anyway.
Depends. Like was wrote, depends on how your chosen carrier
conducts business. A-Teams carrier wouldn't load them past 12-13,000 lbs, a D rate. And thats ok, if they are happy with that. Myself, I prefer to be able to load and move E rate freight when it is available. You gotta understand that in this business, the only thing for sure, is, they ain't nothing for sure.
conducts business. A-Teams carrier wouldn't load them past 12-13,000 lbs, a D rate. And thats ok, if they are happy with that. Myself, I prefer to be able to load and move E rate freight when it is available. You gotta understand that in this business, the only thing for sure, is, they ain't nothing for sure.
There are so many variables on this item. I prefer a class 7 because they are cheaper to operate and half the cost. I usually order a chassis only and move the box, sleeper, and generator to new chassis. True, the class 7 will not last as long but I turn a newer truck much faster. Class 7 will run 50 to 60 tops for a chassis and the class 8 will be around 80 or 90. Remember, that is just the chassis. Galloping can all but be eliminated by loading the truck with the weight over the back axle. If you have four skids, use load locks to put them directly over the back axle. Alot of drivers put all their freight in the nose and there is no need to do that except in very rare circumstances.
On a side note; I usually keep a chassis until 4 or 500,000 and then sell it off. Twice I have added a 4,000 flatbed on them prior to selling at got 20,000 for one and 25,000 for the other. That gets me about half of my cost back. The rest is returned through depreciation. The other advantage is the chassis is under warranty for most of its expedite life. Can't really do that with a class 8. Usually 500,000 is all they will go. A class 7 can be warrantied for 500,000 but will cost you alittle more, and the truck will be warrantied for the period of time that you have it. Our sleeper is warrantied for 10 years, so it will last a while as well.
On a side note; I usually keep a chassis until 4 or 500,000 and then sell it off. Twice I have added a 4,000 flatbed on them prior to selling at got 20,000 for one and 25,000 for the other. That gets me about half of my cost back. The rest is returned through depreciation. The other advantage is the chassis is under warranty for most of its expedite life. Can't really do that with a class 8. Usually 500,000 is all they will go. A class 7 can be warrantied for 500,000 but will cost you alittle more, and the truck will be warrantied for the period of time that you have it. Our sleeper is warrantied for 10 years, so it will last a while as well.
Well you can do what the A team thinks is a good deal and instead of buying 6 tires you can buy 10. Instead of getting 11 mpg you can get 7. You can pay Insurance rates on a $55k truck or pay on a $10OK truck.You can have a $8 K generator setup or you can have a lot of motel rooms. Bottom line is do you want to work for the truck,or do you want to work for yourself. You have that wonderful 100K truck with bou cou payments,you better not get sick,have an accident that ties you up for any lenght of time etc.
I always like to hear all of these wonderful comments from these guys that have never owned a truck and have 6 months vast experience.
Dave KC couldn!t have put it better,listen to someone who knows whats going on.
I always like to hear all of these wonderful comments from these guys that have never owned a truck and have 6 months vast experience.
Dave KC couldn!t have put it better,listen to someone who knows whats going on.
>One other thing is that the A Team 10 wheeler will not make
>any additional revenue vs a Class 7 ,6 wheeler that can haul
>13,000 lbs such as mine. Face it 95% of your load offers are
>C loads so why buy this big A-- truck. Some people
>absolutely amaze me.
Wouldn't it simply be a comfort issue? Granted, I've only ran a van.. so I don't know much.. I just lurk here
Dave Johnson
>any additional revenue vs a Class 7 ,6 wheeler that can haul
>13,000 lbs such as mine. Face it 95% of your load offers are
>C loads so why buy this big A-- truck. Some people
>absolutely amaze me.
Wouldn't it simply be a comfort issue? Granted, I've only ran a van.. so I don't know much.. I just lurk here
Dave Johnson
If it is just a comfort thing, my particular setup has a 125" and has just about all comforts anyone would want including a bathroom and shower ect. And, I can still haul a little over 10,000lbs. Again, the carrier is somewhat of a issue as we never haul loads that are that heavy. Our typical load is 2 to 4000lbs. RichM hit on some critical operating costs relating to tires, milage, insurance , additional loan interest,ect. Also on the comfort side, having a second axle running on the ground will give you a much rougher ride. Simply put, it is another axle that has to absorb every pothole and bump that you run over. Every turn will scrub your back tires, thus wearing them out much faster. Not to mention as RichM did, you are replacing 8 much earlier instead of 4. You are going to spend about 300 per tire unless you run retreads, and they are about 200 to 250. I have owned tractors in the past and I would put my t300 up against any class 8 tractor that is not a single axle. Remember, I said a single axle. A class 8 with a single axle will be a little smoother, but not by much.
Prior to them becoming FedEx we had a truck with Roberts. And when we did a cost comparison on lift gates and reefers we could not justify the cost on a new unit. The milage rate can't cover the additional costs. That doesn't include higher fuel for reefer, aditional insurance ect. The only way to recover these costs is to go to a used truck that has these items on it. Kinda like letting someone else take the financial hit.
Seems like it gets ignored until it is too late, is that if you spend 100,000 vs. 50,000 for a chassis you at least will spend more than double the interest costs. If you go beyond the five years, it gets even worse. On a 10% loan those numbers are scary. And if you really want to shock yourself, wait till your warranty runs out, and you are making huge payments in addition to repairs. Alot of fellow experienced drivers have financially crashed because of it.
Be careful that truck fever doesn't get the best of you.
Prior to them becoming FedEx we had a truck with Roberts. And when we did a cost comparison on lift gates and reefers we could not justify the cost on a new unit. The milage rate can't cover the additional costs. That doesn't include higher fuel for reefer, aditional insurance ect. The only way to recover these costs is to go to a used truck that has these items on it. Kinda like letting someone else take the financial hit.
Seems like it gets ignored until it is too late, is that if you spend 100,000 vs. 50,000 for a chassis you at least will spend more than double the interest costs. If you go beyond the five years, it gets even worse. On a 10% loan those numbers are scary. And if you really want to shock yourself, wait till your warranty runs out, and you are making huge payments in addition to repairs. Alot of fellow experienced drivers have financially crashed because of it.
Be careful that truck fever doesn't get the best of you.
Yep! We're limiting ourselves in the amount of weight we can carry because we don't want to drive an E-unit (tractor trailer). We prefer the mobility straight trucks provide. That mobility comes in handy when we're not under load and we want to explore the area we're in for flea markets, tourist attractions, laundry mats, etc.
Each truck group (vans, straight trucks, tractor-trailers) has it's advantages and disadvantages. That's one of the great things about expediting, you can find your niche and live it up!
Each truck group (vans, straight trucks, tractor-trailers) has it's advantages and disadvantages. That's one of the great things about expediting, you can find your niche and live it up!
Davekc's analysis (above) is sound. I especially like his ten-year perspective. After our Class 8 truck purchase is complete and we have some real-world operating cost numbers to compare, it would be fun to do, side-by-side, a ten-year life cycle analysis that compares class 8 and class 7 trucks. Davekc and I both have large sleepers with showers and bathrooms. Both run with major carriers. I think it would be a valuable apples-to-apples comparison of interest to numerous buyers of expedited trucks.
In response to Davekc's and RichM's comments about truck expense, please note that we're not proceeding unaware or unskilled.
We know what our expediting revenues and long term costs are. As a former stockbroker and financial planner of eleven years my business planning and financial analysis skills are above average. We know about business cycles and inflation. We know about freight cycles, recessions, etc. We understand and appreciate the time value of money. We've not brushed aside the numerous stories of expediters that have gone broke. Instead, we've studied and learned from them.
Dave Johnson got it right. It's a comfort issue. Why are we buying a class 8 rig when a class 7 will do? Because we LIKE class 8. Why do people buy exotic cars when a used Chevy will do? For the same reason.
RichM talked about how some people simply amaze him. A lot of people amaze us too. We're amazed by the flat bed drivers that do more manual labor than we'd ever do. We're amazed by expediters that go home every three weeks no matter where they are or how much it will cost in fuel and lost revenues to get there. We're amazed by the drivers that use a tooth brush to get the underside of their truck ready for the next truck beauty contest.
Like most people, we're amazed by others that do things we'd never do ourselves. But we don't make them wrong for being different than us or making diferent choices.
We appreciate the fact that those hard-working flat bedders may very well be in their glory when they are out there tarping in the rain. They probably derive satisfaction from working hard for their money. We understand truck drivers that make getting home a top priority, no matter what the cost, are probably happy as clams on their way there. They've scored a great victory and avoid the complaints other drivers have about being away from home too long. We respect the choices of the truck show contestants that probably understand each other better than the spectators understand them.
We believe we'll be happy as clams in our new truck. We can afford it. We can pay for it entirely with our expediting earnings. We plan to pay it off well ahead of schedule and enjoy it every day.
Is that OK?
We know what our expediting revenues and long term costs are. As a former stockbroker and financial planner of eleven years my business planning and financial analysis skills are above average. We know about business cycles and inflation. We know about freight cycles, recessions, etc. We understand and appreciate the time value of money. We've not brushed aside the numerous stories of expediters that have gone broke. Instead, we've studied and learned from them.
Dave Johnson got it right. It's a comfort issue. Why are we buying a class 8 rig when a class 7 will do? Because we LIKE class 8. Why do people buy exotic cars when a used Chevy will do? For the same reason.
RichM talked about how some people simply amaze him. A lot of people amaze us too. We're amazed by the flat bed drivers that do more manual labor than we'd ever do. We're amazed by expediters that go home every three weeks no matter where they are or how much it will cost in fuel and lost revenues to get there. We're amazed by the drivers that use a tooth brush to get the underside of their truck ready for the next truck beauty contest.
Like most people, we're amazed by others that do things we'd never do ourselves. But we don't make them wrong for being different than us or making diferent choices.
We appreciate the fact that those hard-working flat bedders may very well be in their glory when they are out there tarping in the rain. They probably derive satisfaction from working hard for their money. We understand truck drivers that make getting home a top priority, no matter what the cost, are probably happy as clams on their way there. They've scored a great victory and avoid the complaints other drivers have about being away from home too long. We respect the choices of the truck show contestants that probably understand each other better than the spectators understand them.
We believe we'll be happy as clams in our new truck. We can afford it. We can pay for it entirely with our expediting earnings. We plan to pay it off well ahead of schedule and enjoy it every day.
Is that OK?
Thats exactly right A-team. LIVE IT UP. This is a fun profession.
We have both class 7 and 8 3 axle rigs. Both perform as they were
expected to. the class7's are able to haul more payload because they are lighter in weight to begin with. Also, they have tags on them and are more forgiving if the driver miscalculates where to place the freight in the van, because, we can "tweak" the air a little to distribute the weight for an "on the envelope load". The class 8's get better mileage 10 vs 8. And are more comfortable for team runs because of the tripple air ride. It's really a matter of what you're doin with em. You can do everything from travel with em or, work em. Or, both. We do. What folks get amazed at I think depends a lot on their individual experiences, socilization, backgrounds etc. Personnaly, I get amazed at a number of things in this world every day. But, thats life. The only thing I suggest is that you plan you're truck purchase so that it can be modified to meet the dynamic needs of the industry without too much out of pocket.
We have both class 7 and 8 3 axle rigs. Both perform as they were
expected to. the class7's are able to haul more payload because they are lighter in weight to begin with. Also, they have tags on them and are more forgiving if the driver miscalculates where to place the freight in the van, because, we can "tweak" the air a little to distribute the weight for an "on the envelope load". The class 8's get better mileage 10 vs 8. And are more comfortable for team runs because of the tripple air ride. It's really a matter of what you're doin with em. You can do everything from travel with em or, work em. Or, both. We do. What folks get amazed at I think depends a lot on their individual experiences, socilization, backgrounds etc. Personnaly, I get amazed at a number of things in this world every day. But, thats life. The only thing I suggest is that you plan you're truck purchase so that it can be modified to meet the dynamic needs of the industry without too much out of pocket.
The only thing I suggest is that you plan
>you're truck purchase so that it can be modified to meet the
>dynamic needs of the industry without too much out of
>pocket.
Very interesting suggestion. Please elaborate. We like to think we've done our research but you never know for sure. What do you have in mind when you talk about the dynamic needs of the industry?
>you're truck purchase so that it can be modified to meet the
>dynamic needs of the industry without too much out of
>pocket.
Very interesting suggestion. Please elaborate. We like to think we've done our research but you never know for sure. What do you have in mind when you talk about the dynamic needs of the industry?
i had the class 7 and a class 6 truck and now a class 8
and each time move up in truck was for comfort
if you are going to live in a truck most of time you should be as comfortable as you are able to be
i have now what you would call a super c unit as i'm able to haul
13,300 with a 16 ft box on it
with fedexcc when they were in need they would pay a d rate and
sometimes not but load at a c rate was still a good rate
like playing poker you have to know when to hold or fold
with egl you get paid to haul the weight and have had 13,297 on the
truck and got paid for the weight
and each time move up in truck was for comfort
if you are going to live in a truck most of time you should be as comfortable as you are able to be
i have now what you would call a super c unit as i'm able to haul
13,300 with a 16 ft box on it
with fedexcc when they were in need they would pay a d rate and
sometimes not but load at a c rate was still a good rate
like playing poker you have to know when to hold or fold
with egl you get paid to haul the weight and have had 13,297 on the
truck and got paid for the weight
It did get way off subject. In response to original question, a 3 axle(cabover,28'box,plated for 50,000#) can make you more if you sign with the right company(most co. stick with expedite only,regardless of what your hauling capabilities are), one that will get you ltl and full truck load (anything over half trailer will pay full load). This will help in the slow times and when you go to an area not good for expedite loads out. The big question is, do you want to make a profit or is a pretty truck and all amenities on it your #1 priority?
Stand up for what you believe in, don't do something just because everyone else is!
Stand up for what you believe in, don't do something just because everyone else is!
In regards to my prvious posts, I listed many of my reasons on running a class 7. This is very useful information for a newcomer into the business. As stated earlier, particular companies and situations may dictate different approaches. Based on my past experiences with both, I can compare numbers. I mean very specific numbers that I draw the above posts conclusions from.
I can clearly say in my operation, I have seen no figures in any period of time, where it became more economical to operate a class 8 tandem axle. If one has the resources to go with a class 8, wants to have fun with it, and operating costs are secondary, then it becomes a personal decision, but probably not a business one.
As not to confuse anyone, I am drawing that information from both expedite and linehaul. Three expedite companies, and two linehaul companies.
I can clearly say in my operation, I have seen no figures in any period of time, where it became more economical to operate a class 8 tandem axle. If one has the resources to go with a class 8, wants to have fun with it, and operating costs are secondary, then it becomes a personal decision, but probably not a business one.
As not to confuse anyone, I am drawing that information from both expedite and linehaul. Three expedite companies, and two linehaul companies.
I did fail to address one item of concern. Relating to projected income. One could project income, but for only a short period of time. All the financial skills and management won't change the fact that fuel for example, has climbed to all time record highs. It would be hard under any circumstances to determine what costs will be two years from now let alone five. If one knows with certainty what fuel will be in five years, they should be in a more lucrative profession rather than expediting.