This is a good read!

DougTravels

Not a Member
Burden, yes.
Blame, no.

I'd have to agree Turtle to an extent, It depends on the amount of intell that was available. That's something we will never know. He handled the burden well initially then got distracted with Iraq which was a huge blunder.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
That was a very good reply. Can't agree with it, but it was well written, and without the ranting you frequently indulge in.
The reason I disagree is that people are more than the sum of their parts, and the thinking person takes in new facts and ideas every day, causing their opinions to evolve [or sometimes, to harden.] I think you run the risk of stereotyping folks, or 'judging a book by it's cover' when you NEED to know their background before you can evaluate their statements. I'd rather judge an opinion on its' merits, than its' author, myself.
For what it's worth, I have no problem understanding what Doug says - or what you say, either. And I particularly dislike slogans, which are usually a substitute for an actual thought.


Yes, sometimes people I have judged one way have turned out to be different after I got to know them. What I have done as far as judging HAS kept me out of trouble. Not using "good judgement" almost always leads to trouble.

Opinions often do not make sense to those observing them. If the opinion is radically different to those of the observer it is often necessary to look into a person more to attempt to try to understand that opinion. The more you know about a person and thier backround the easier that becomes. That is how walls can be brought down and understanding formed.

Doug is a very passionate person, as am I. I have strong backround for the basis of my opinions. I have seen much and lost many. Doug often ridicules that. It gets me, I should not let it, but sometimes it does. Too many I know are dead and when he, or others, belittle thier sacrifice, well, it is NOT right.

From my perspective Doug's opinions are often not based in reality. They do not match up with events that I was personally very much involved in. In many cases they are total fabrications. I would love to know where he gets the information from. It does not appear from his VERY INTERESTING bio that he has much backround or first hand experiece in forgein polilcy or military affairs or history. I do not think that Doug is making things up, it appears that he was taught a lot of very wrong things. As are most in this country. It would be interesting to sit down and chat in person. Opinions do NOT have merit. Everyone has them. Opinion based on facts have merit, those based solely on feelings most times do not. We vote on our opinion. Voting is a right. A right that carries with it a grave responsiblility. Everyone is required to do everything within thier power to insure that thier beliefs are based on reality. Then you vote on that.

Yes, people cannot always be judged by the cover. Thier ideas and feelings are daily shaped. It is, however, very rare that an adult changes basic core beliefs about right and wrong. Those core values are what thier entire adult life has been based on and unless those ideas are grossly out of wack they are seldom changed.

People in general choose to associate with people of like minds. I hang around with those who share my core beliefs. They may differ on silly things like politics but not in important areas.

My marriage is a good example. I met my wife in church. We share a similar faith, ideas about family and the sanctity of marriage. That compatibility in core values and beliefs are one of the two main reasons we have stayed married for 36 years come the 30th of the month. The other main reason is that divorce was never an option in our life. When problems arise we work together to work them out. The harder times get the closer we grow together. We are NOT in compitition with each other, we are a team.

As to the ranting that I sometimes indulge in, I too am a very passionate person. It is also a defence mechinisum. If I blow off the steam in a mostly harmless rant I don't go around "knuckeling" peoples heads. I am Italian you know. We rant, rave, wave our hands about wildly and yell and scream till we turn purple. Then we make you a pot of homemade sauce. :D
 

DougTravels

Not a Member
327 w 11 mile madison heights, just west of John R, Directly next door to where a Jets now is. The building was divided into 3 store fronts it is now 1 business. Between Alger and Palmer.
 
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LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
So Doug, Obama is responsible for the bankruptcy of GM and Chrysler then since both bankruptcies happened under his watch? After all, they were within the last month and he's been president for several months now.
 

DougTravels

Not a Member
So Doug, Obama is responsible for the bankruptcy of GM and Chrysler then since both bankruptcies happened under his watch? After all, they were within the last month and he's been president for several months now.

I guess if you want to compare an attack and a business colapse it is really apple and oranges, but if you insist here goes.

In comparing Gm to 911, I guess the planes hit and the fire started under W's watch and they just fell under obama's watch.
 
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