This Could Mean Trouble

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
The California Air Resources Board is at it again, and for the first time, in a way that may affect Diane and I, and owners of perhaps as many as 1.5 million other trucks.

From Land Line Magazine article:

"The proposed rule would essentially require 1.5 million trucks to meet 2007 emission standards by the year 2012 – although several other regulatory possibilities are also proposed."

Our truck is a 2006 model, which we spec'ed and intended to run until 2016 or longer. California is one of our best states for pickups and deliveries. If this rule passes, we would have to purchase a new truck that we do not want or need (environmentally unwise), pay for engine upgrades that will be costly and will likely reduce fuel economy (also environmentally unwise), or eliminate California as a state we would serve (doable, but undesirable).

Just this last weekend, we spent a day on Boca Chica State Beach. Every fire ring on the beach was in use and the air there was so thick with poorly built camp fires that it was hard to breathe. Our truck and other vehicles in the parking lot were coated with particulates when the beach closed.

CARB has no trouble imposing its will on the trucking industry, and then changing the rules and imposing it again. Yet it shows no concern whatsoever with people who, every night, cart tons of wood and fireplace logs to the beach and torch it in the open air.

The difference? California residents vote and CARB members want to keep their jobs. Interstate truckers do not have a vote. If there is a boycott California movement taking shape among truckers, I would be interested to learn more about it.

Having been politically active once before, and more than a little effective, I know how to do so again. Lord, I hope it does not come to that. We got into trucking to simplify our lives.

Having bought a then-compliant truck in good faith, we don't need CARB reaching into our lives all the way from the West Coast to change the good faith bargain we made when we purchased our truck.

Or, we just suck it up and do what we can to pass the expenses on to our customers. That's the easy way out, but doing so leaves these myopic environmental extremists unrestrained.

Grumbling here. :mad:
 

Jefferson3000

Expert Expediter
If enough trucks said no to California pickups and deliveries, they would have a much bigger problem on their hands.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Welcome to the real world Phil, it's about time.

"Having bought a then-compliant truck in good faith, we don't need CARB reaching into our lives all the way from the West Coast to change the good faith bargain we made when we purchased our truck."

To be blunt, that's too bad that you are just catching on to this. Many of us have had to worry about it for a while and others have already made decisions not to run in California.

I can see where there is a conflict between a constitutional federal mandate and a state laws, the state is not supposed to regulate interstate commerce and using emission laws, it is doing just that. Remember Phil, on the legal end the supreme court already decided that the feds have the final say on any interstate commerce issue, not the states. So maybe putting you legal resources to work getting a lawsuit started in federal court may help. Or getting people involved in a large recall of their reps and senators in congress to make a clear point that we can not stand this mess to continue.

As for a boycott, well I don't know how much time you spent talking to the Mexicans, but I would bet my truck if there is a short fall in the trucking area in California, there will be an influx of visa sponsored drivers (H-2b) coming over daily to work here to fill in the spaces left by people who boycott California.

Oh and you don't have to link to your BIO to tell us about you, we already know and it is .....never mind.....
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
WE and OOIDA etc should be filing law suits under the Interstate commerece act. They can regulate truck domiciled in CA but my truck is not. It is legal in all other 49 states. If that does not happen it would be easy to shut down CA to trucks. You have to pass through thier border crossings, so much for freedom of travel etc, to get in. All we have to do is park in the road. Park enough trucks and we shut down ALL business in that socialist state/country in a very short amount of time. It never fails to amaze me, we are one of the most powerful groups in the country and we let petty politions rule us. Why are we afraid to shut the economy down for a few days. Better than voting. They would HAVE to listen to us. Without truckers everything stops. Layoutshooter
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
This legislation is likely going to go through. The governor "terminator" said there was a big push on it last week on "Meet the Press" with Brokaw.
It will be good for the larger carriers including Fedex because they will control the freight in that region.
Bad news is that it won't include CC unless of course you want to upgrade your truck. It will pretty much have the same impact as this latest Canada speed limiter program.
So it in a big picture will effect all owner operators that currently operate there.
I guess if your going to get into the self promoting links AGAIN, maybe this time you will roll up your sleeves and become involved. Instead of reminding us what you've done, maybe show us what you can do that will make a difference.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
You are right Dave, it is up to us. Most American are cowards and will not stand up for themselves. They will just complain, whine and moan and then say, yes sir, yes sir 3 bags full and would you like me to kiss it for you too sir? I have little faith left in the American people. Layoutshooter
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Let those "jacks" do what ever they want in there own country "The Peoples Republic of California" If they want to have a 20 Mule team deliver goods or 3 million Mexicans on bicycles I don't care. Just shut down the borders in and out of the place. NO goods in, NO goods out. Let them eat CARB!! The only solution to the problem. Same thing with Ontario or any other place with dumb ideas. Layoutshooter
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
Wouldn't be surprised to see it evolve into a bunch of mini Laredo border towns in the surrounding states. It will just move the pollution to the edge of the state only to be blown back in from the Santa Ana winds.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Then they could have "Clean Air" and "Pure Thought" Police. And there are people in the Republican Party that would like to see the jerk "terminator" in a national office. Layoutshooter
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Well, my truck is a 2007 so I presume that means it's legal but I have no interest in going to Calibfornia. Let them get in their cars and drive to AZ, NV, OR to get whatever they need.
 

copdsux

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
Phil: I just read your bio & I have a question: Are your lips sore from tooting your own horn?
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Let's keep this on topic and professional. Anything else should be in private or left alone. This is a public professional forum and should be viewed and treated as such.
 

TeamCaffee

Administrator
Staff member
Owner/Operator
We have also been watching the California situation and we are specing our next truck to meet these standards. I wonder how many other states will follow the lead of California? We feel that many trucks are going to say no to California and these standards which will just raise the rates. We enjoy running on the west coast and we want to be able to continue to do this.
 

nightcreacher

Veteran Expediter
I'm glad i've figured out how to make a living without going to the far left coast,sure i go,but maybe 4 times a year,and that is because the rate is so high,just hard to turn down.Im driving the last truck i will own,the newer models just cost to much to operate. Sure there are more aero dynamic trucks now,but they are still having trouble getting the fuel mileage of the older models.in this day of high fuel prices,if you dont get at least 7 mpg,you just kidding yourself how much you are really putting in the bank
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
We have also been watching the California situation and we are specing our next truck to meet these standards. I wonder how many other states will follow the lead of California? We feel that many trucks are going to say no to California and these standards which will just raise the rates. We enjoy running on the west coast and we want to be able to continue to do this.

Spec'ing a truck to current emission standards is exactly what we did in 2006. Now, the rules seem to be changing in a way that undermines that decision. If we spec'ed a new truck today to meet new standards, there is no assurance that the rules will not change again.

Some other states take their lead from California. So if you run all states, California's standards eventually become national standards by default.

I have not been looking hard, but have yet to see any people or organizations gathering to react against the CARB standards. That may yet happen as the standards get more onerous and expensive.

Regardless of what happens politically or in the courts, Diane and I will continue to haul only the freight that is profitable to haul. If expedited freight rates do not compensate us for the additional costs of CARB compliance (or for all other costs for that matter), we will either find a market segment where rates are profitable or we will get out of the business. As I have said before, we are happy to haul freight but we will not work for free (break even or less).

Customer awareness would grow if carriers imposed on California loads only a CARB compliance surcharge. But for that to be effective, they would need to do so before other states adopt the new standards. I'm not advocating that, just thinking out loud.
 

TeamCaffee

Administrator
Staff member
Owner/Operator
Same as you Phil we are specing our truck to meet those standards and am still afraid that in a few years we will not be compliant.
 

Jefferson3000

Expert Expediter
Phil, you are definitely right about this: The scenarios are changing so quickly, that it makes it hard to plan anything.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Phil,
I had to re-read the thread. I don’t see a problem. By the time 2012 rolls around, there will be a lot of changes to the industry and the country and I would expect I won’t be in a truck. We may already see the end of the industry as we know it over the cost of fuel, which I may add is a welcomed sight for many who think we are destroying our environment.

Maybe you should have bought the truck with the 2007 engine instead?

Bought the truck in good faith?

Good faith of what?

It sounds like you expected things to be status quo with the golden state.

Well no matter, we the people who run the cheap trucks have to worry about California more than you have and have been for a while. I just find it odd that you awoken to this and seem to be very worried about something you have zero control over and that may be 4 years away or may be 5.

I wish you wouldn’t worry about it, you got other things to worry about because in November, we will know which way this global warming cr*p goes, either falling into the deep end with all kinds of restrictions and a lot of people going out of business or drowning in the shallow end with stupid things being done to the oil industry and to our country – not much of a choice there, is it?

As for this latest thing, you got till 2012, a long time to save for that new engine to put into the truck. At the rate you paid off the truck, a retro-fit of a 2010 emissions engine may be around 18% of the trucks original cost or Volvo will be smart and have a kit that you can put on to cover the regulations.

Oh and the idea of compensation for these regulations, well let’s just say that no one should ever expect it or deserve it – it is part of doing business.

Did you read the proposal?

If you did, did you see the electronic reporting requirement?

Amazing electronic logging will become law with the proposal or maybe I read it wrong.
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
There is enough going on to justify an Expedite NOW article, on which I have now begun work. Two quick points:

Per vendors: the cost of upgrading an existing
generator to new CARB standards is $2,000 to $2,500. Price increases on new CARB-compliant generators are unknown.

Per vendor: Onan is not offering CARB-compliant generators. Onan's big market is RVs. CARB rules do not apply, at least not yet.

If you are planning a near-term generator or reefer purchase, be sure to get current on the CARB regs and vendor response to them. You don't want to spend a ton of money only to find yourself stuck with something you don't want just a couple months down the road.

This is a fluid situation. Reefers are also affected, as are trucks. Be careful. Keep alert. Do thorough research. Use reliable and authorative sources for info.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Justify an article now?

Why now?

Maybe it should have been looked at when there were serious changes within California to give CARB all the power or when CHP decided to start checking certifications on engines?

The last time I looked, Onan has Tier IV certified and CARB complaint generators for the marine line and they have according to Cummins, a CARB compliant APU. You can actually use a marine gen set on the truck seeing that they are pretty much serve the same function, even though there is some things that have to be done to it to make it work on a truck but it does work. I think the focus will not be on RV gen sets because they are pretty much exempt from the anything due to the tourist thing in the state but there maybe a filter down solution through the Marine group at Onan to the RV group when this all hits the RV group.
 
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