These are Democrats?

greg334

Veteran Expediter
OVM,
The cost of education has been purposely inflated and a system that is dependent on more of the staff to "support" the teachers than it is actually teaching.

In smaller communities, they have a big advantage if they are in control of their education system, a lot like home schooling but on a community level which seemed to work for 90 years before 'reforms' of the 60's took place.

Smaller communities can control their costs by being more flexible with a smaller group of students, which can't be done in larger city schools. The other thing is if home schoolers produce rather "gifted" students who seem to be equal to the rest of the world, then striving for a community school system with the home schooling flavor could be reality in these small rural communities.

BUT the real problem with equalization is simple - it has **** up the public school system to the point that a rural school getting $7500 per student compared to an inner city school getting $14,500 per student, the rural student is actually better educated and fairs better outside the class room.

I would like to see an end to public schools as we have them - the student follows the money. I would like to see us introduce a system similar to France's education system - the money follows the student. The improvements after the shake up of the entire system will be realized within 4 years because it will force the ripping down of the district walls as competition is introduced while forcing the system to provide a better education.

But again the parents and students do not have a say - the teachers union and the school administrators do.

Did you know that the level of education in places like India are still better than a lot of our public schools?

Did you also know that they are finally realizing that the student may not be able to go to college and some schools are trying to identify those students to prepare them for a lower class of work, like manufacturing jobs?

End the abuse, End Public Schools.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
The abuse will not end. The horror of this government will be greatly increased under ObamaCare. It is will just another way that they force their control on us. Just as they took over education so many years ago.
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
Yes, I meant politicians not just individuals, 80/20 bad/good politicians.
Well, then I'd definitely more inclined to agree .... although in that case, the 20% number might be high .... :D

I'll never forget what happened with my father when the Watergate scandal broke (he had voted for Nixon) - it was the final straw that completely destroyed any last remaining shred of confidence that he might have had that there might be a politician, out there somewhere, that wasn't corrupt .... it was a very sad thing to see ..... :(

After that, they were just all thieves and crooks .....
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Well, then I'd definitely more inclined to agree .... although in that case, the 20% number might be high .... :D

I'll never forget what happened with my father when the Watergate scandal broke (he had voted for Nixon) - it was the final straw that completely destroyed any last remaining shred of confidence that he might have had that there might be a politician, out there somewhere, that wasn't corrupt .... it was a very sad thing to see ..... :(

After that, they were just all thieves and crooks .....


It seems that nothing has changed.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Our school year is adjusted to the farm/ranch schedule spring break around calving/lambing summer break around the harvest...the kids actually work...:D
Now it is a 4 day school week to save money just so our kids can have decent toilet paper...:eek:
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
I always wondered why! Now I know. I can die a happy man!:D

Politics plays a big role on how money is dispersed...the big cities get more with bigger political clout...It costs more to run a rural school then a big city school....a teacher gets the same pay regardless of class size...we might have 4 kids in grade 3 and 3 kids in grade 4...so they combine for a grand total of 7 kids...but the teacher still gets paid.

Now Obama is trying to cut funding to rural America and the state has to make up the shortfall....
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
What irony? What did I iron? Lost me here. Nothing new, I get lost easy. Old age you know, part-timers etc.
Layout,

If I had to guess, I'd bet it might have something to with your tendency to rag on _______ (insert liberals, politicians, democrats, republicans .... whatever) as being the epitome of ______ (evil .... or whatever) as though the whole were some sort of monolith (as opposed to individuals)

Of course, we all know that you don't really mean (or even believe) that all of them are actually _____ (whatever) .... it's just that you are prone to the use of little hyperbole or exaggeration from time to time (not that I myself would ever do such a thing :rolleyes:)
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Layout,

If I had to guess, I'd bet it might have something to with your tendency to rag on _______ (insert liberals, politicians, democrats, republicans .... whatever) as being the epitome of ______ (evil .... or whatever) as though the whole were some sort of monolith (as opposed to individuals)

Of course, we all know that you don't really mean (or even believe) that all of them are actually _____ (whatever) .... it's just that you are prone to the use of little hyperbole or exaggeration from time to time (not that I myself would ever do such a thing :rolleyes:)

WHO ME? Exaggerate? LOL!! It's not MY fault that all politicians suck!! When I see a good one I will be happy to point it out. If there is a good politician he/she/it needs to distance themselve(s) from the "den of thieves". Guilt by association is real.

As to the monolith vs. individuals thing, we shall see. I am betting that the Dumb-O-Crats will do what their lord god Obama tells them in spite of what those who elected them say that they want. After all those autotrons in congress no longer work for those who elected them, they work for Obama.

Not that I would ever rant on and on about this stuff. :rolleyes:
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
SO OVM, wouldn't you think if the rural funding is being cut by the federal government, then just maybe we need to get rid of the department of education at that level?

LBJ made a promise to all of us when he pushed the great society. I think that experiment should be deemed a failure and we should undo the mess by getting the feds out of education.

I guess it is like Hillary being held up as a woman of progress and the breaker of the glass ceiling by being secretary of state.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
SO OVM, wouldn't you think if the rural funding is being cut by the federal government, then just maybe we need to get rid of the department of education at that level?

LBJ made a promise to all of us when he pushed the great society. I think that experiment should be deemed a failure and we should undo the mess by getting the feds out of education.

I guess it is like Hillary being held up as a woman of progress and the breaker of the glass ceiling by being secretary of state.

Absolutely..the Feds have NO business in the education...
BUT I think a state should oversee the education of its children to assure the locals are up to the task...If you go below the state level in the rural areas (County)I just can't see it working....this is NOT the 18th century anymore...it is just not reality to expect a stay at home mom in this day of age..
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Absolutely..the Feds have NO business in the education...
BUT I think a state should oversee the education of its children to assure the locals are up to the task...If you go below the state level in the rural areas (County)I just can't see it working....this is NOT the 18th century anymore...it is just not reality to expect a stay at home mom in this day of age..


There are millions of stay at home mom's. My wife's cousins wife is one. As I said, she has 7 kids, home schools them all. He runs a privately owned, no national chain, exterminating business. They drive older cars, not many "extras" in life. Hunt and fish together and attend and participate in church.

Is can be and is being done. The idea is not to fall for the lies that tell you that living right is no longer able to be done.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
and stay at home Dad's.;)..
lets not be sexist before Cheri jumps us on that detail...*L*

It doesn't work for everyone and that is YOUR values..that should NOT be extended or expected to extend or intrude on how others bring up their children...

Neither party is wrong as long as the children are cared for in a responsible matter....so we can not expect others to live the style of life we think they should...

Bottomline...they chose NOT to do it your way.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
and stay at home Dad's.;)..
lets not be sexist before Cheri jumps us on that detail...*L*

It doesn't work for everyone and that is YOUR values..that should NOT be extended or expected to extend or intrude on how others bring up their children...

Neither party is wrong as long as the children are cared for in a responsible matter....so we can not expect others to live the style of life we think they should...

Bottomline...they chose NOT to do it your way.

On the flip side of that, why should those who choose to do it their way be forced by law to do it the other way? Why should they pay for others? Is THAT ok? Which is more "free", the force of law or the right to decide at the family level?

I did not specify stay at home mom's or dad's, I just gave one example out of millions who are making it work according to their beliefs. The biggest problem they have is government interference. One of the biggest problems with their finances are the crushing taxes. The state or the Feds have not business in education.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Just saying...Now we have 2 sides of the story...

Do you force your style on me? or me on you?

or find a middle ground?
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Just saying...Now we have 2 sides of the story...

Do you force your style on me? or me on you?

or find a middle ground?


Only the government is using force. The middle ground is the freedom to choose. The minute the government forces taxes on the people that they choose not to pay freedom is gone.

I no longer have school age children but one of my biggest expenses every year is educating other peoples children and I have no control over that money that is taken from me. Neither in how it is spent, who gets paid what, and what is being taught with the use of my money.

Now, prove to me that it is the right thing to do. If I refuse the forced taxes I will lose my house. Be arrested etc. That is the result of your solution. Is that freedom?
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Of course not but taxes are as old as Christ and even older...but that does not make it right...

BTW..In Canada at age 65 they no longer pay the education portion of taxes....
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Of course not but taxes are as old as Christ and even older...but that does not make it right...

BTW..In Canada at age 65 they no longer pay the education portion of taxes....


This is not Canada, we put our seniors out of their homes for not paying taxes. We put anyone who does not pay taxes out of their homes or into jail.

There is no way to have government controlled education without the use of force. Just explain why the U.S. Department of Education has and is buying more shotguns.

Your choices are no control or total control. That is how it is here. Those with kids should cover their own costs.

I wish I had learned that lesson years ago. I did not.
 
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