The Trump Card...
- Thread starter muttly
- Start date
Special Master Dearie and three judges on the Court of Appeals for the 11th Circuit have said otherwise. And what they say counts. Everything else said about this is just noise.
Having now read the article Pilgrim shared, "5 Times The Anti-Trump FBI’s ‘Trust Us’ Promise Fell Apart," written by Margot Cleveland, my comments are:
The article is written with an obvious partisan bias. In fairness, the article seems to be written to offset other articles that speak with an equally partisan bias from the other side. To get past that and more into the facts, I set out to research the "5 times" myself.
Time 1: The article prompted me to track down the 2019 DOJ Inspector General's report entitled, "Review of Four FISA Applications and Other Aspects of the FBI’s Crossfire Hurricane Investigation." This is a long and detailed report; 478 pages. It is also very old news and I am unwilling to take the time to read a very long report, or even the executive summary which itself is long at 19 pages.
Relying instead on this old Politico summary of the report, I agree that "... the Crossfire Hurricane team omitted several important details from its applications for a FISA warrant on Page." Some, including me, would call that lying; specifically, lies of omission. So yes, this is a specific case in which the FBI lied to the FISA court.
Time 2: Here, Cleveland makes an assertion and presents no additional facts. Her assertion relies on the fact she established with her Time 1. Her assertion is, "... the IG report further established that Americans’ faith in the FISA Court to serve as a check on the government was misplaced, with the judges serving as but a rubberstamp of the DOJ’s surveillance applications."
I reject her assertion. While it's true the FBI lied to the FISA court in the above case, it is not true that Americans should conclude that their confidence in the FISA Court is misplaced. It is no more legitimate to do that than it is to discredit an entire police department because of the errant actions of a single officer, or to discredit the entire judicial branch because of a single incompetent judge.
Time 3: Cleveland writes: "The Department of Justice has since admitted that it illegally surveilled former Trump campaign adviser Carter Page and that such surveillance reached Trump campaign documents. So, yes, our federal government illegally surveilled the campaign of a presidential candidate."
While she stretches her point to it's maximum limit, the point remains valid and I agree.
Time 4: Time 4 refers to redactions subsequent declassifications made in the DOJ report mentioned above. Cleveland also alleges, "Mueller’s office deceived the country and a federal court when prosecutors claimed Flynn had discussed U.S. sanctions with his Russian counterpart." She further states, "... the sources and methods were those of deep-state actors seeking to rid themselves of the president’s chosen national security adviser by launching a perjury trap and then lying about what Flynn said."
Cleveland's point about the DOJ report redactions is valid. The Flynn-related claim is an entirely different topic and I simply don't have time to go into that. I'm not going to accept her claim as valid, but since I'm not researching it, I'm not going to dismiss it as invalid either.
Time 5: In her "Time 5," Cleveland disputes the DOJ IG's finding that the FBI’s launch of the Crossfire Hurricane investigation was properly predicated. She then offers a number of details that are not convincing. The DOJ IG looked deeply into certain questions and produce a 400+ page report filled with details. I'm inclined to accept his conclusion that the launching of the Crossfire Hurricane investigation was properly predicated.
Pilgrim, it seems to me that behind Cleveland's article is the question, can DOJ, the FBI and their supportive commentators be trusted? She says no, and I agree.
The people of the United States agree too. No law-enforcement agency can be trusted. That's the reason we require warrants, have courts to issue them, have things like probable cause and have things like internal affairs departments, inspector generals and others who help keep law enforcement in line. It's the reason we have checks and balances in the U.S. Constitution.
No law enforcement agency should be trusted. And, so that we may live safe in a civil society, no properly functioning law enforcement agency should be prohibited from doing its proper work.
Other than putting Trump in cuffs, it's hard to imagine the DOJ taking a higher-profile action than what they did in searching former president's Trump's house. Having been previously stung by the IG's findings in the report above, it seems to me that we can rest assured that DOJ is dotting its I's and crossing its T's like never before as they proceed with their investigation of one Donald J. Trump.
Last edited:
Special Master Demands Specifics from Trump
"The plan and timeline laid out by U.S. District Judge Raymond Dearie states that by Monday, the Department of Justice must provide electronic copies of the materials not labeled classified to both Dearie and Trump's team.
"For each document, Trump's attorneys must then say whether he is asserting attorney-client privilege or executive privilege or whether the document is a personal or presidential record, according to Dearie's latest directions.
"For any document that Trump and his team mark as privileged and/or personal, they need to include a statement explaining the reasoning for the particular declaration." (Source)
No more standing at a rally podium and spreading lies and innuendo. No more posted "truths" that are not true. Regarding executive privilege and attorney-client privilege, provide specifics under oath, the judge tells Trump.
"The plan and timeline laid out by U.S. District Judge Raymond Dearie states that by Monday, the Department of Justice must provide electronic copies of the materials not labeled classified to both Dearie and Trump's team.
"For each document, Trump's attorneys must then say whether he is asserting attorney-client privilege or executive privilege or whether the document is a personal or presidential record, according to Dearie's latest directions.
"For any document that Trump and his team mark as privileged and/or personal, they need to include a statement explaining the reasoning for the particular declaration." (Source)
No more standing at a rally podium and spreading lies and innuendo. No more posted "truths" that are not true. Regarding executive privilege and attorney-client privilege, provide specifics under oath, the judge tells Trump.
Last edited:
You can cite all the extra-judicial items you want about declassification. Trump is in court now because he's the one who took this special master matter to court. In court, the judges are telling him, and telling the world that the documents in question are classified. They are saying that if Trump does not provide, in court, specific proof that he declassified them, they remain classified.
No proof so far, so go ahead. Keep posting you meaningless posts. The meaningful items are the opinions the judges have issued.
RLENT
Veteran Expediter
Still going with the Trumper Twatwaffle "legal analysis" I see ...
Some people never learn.
It was obvious from the beginning that this Mar-a-Lago raid was a fishing expedition that was orchestrated and timed to influence the November elections and distract from the critical issues which expose the Democrats' failures. They can't run on things like crime, inflation, the border, etc because they lose badly on kitchen table topics. The Real Clear Politics average shows 64% of Americans think the country is headed in the wrong direction, while 28% think things are OK. It's no wonder the Democrats want the headlines to focus on Trump.
The current legal process for Mar-a-Lago will take weeks if not months to run it's course, and it's highly likely they'll find some tidbit that will get an indictment from a grand jury, resulting in another Mueller-type side show. This will extend the "all about Trump" strategy into 2024, but in reality it's unrelated to the mid-term elections. This is political theater that the liberals will be gloating about on all their media until Nov 8th. For the Trump haters it's high drama; for those concerned about the serious upcoming election, it's a 2nd-rate soap opera.
RLENT
Veteran Expediter
Exclusive: Trump's secret court fight to stop grand jury from getting information from his inner circle
Looks like former Trump White House adviser and lawyer Eric Herschmann is willing to sing.
Looks like former Trump White House adviser and lawyer Eric Herschmann is willing to sing.
In any field of endeavor, what is obvious to one is often not obvious to another. "Obvious" is in the eye of the beholder.
What's obvious to me is Trump was in illegal possession of classified and other documents he is not legally entitled to have. It is obvious to me that the government made several attempts to recover these documents but those efforts were resisted by Trump. It is obvious that the government's response was to obtain a warrant to conduct a legal search and seize the documents in question.
It is also obvious that Trump could have changed the timing of these events at will and avoided the search entirely by simply returning all of the documents he had. And it is obvious he did not do that.
Actually, in that special election in New York, they ran on abortion rights and won. Abortion rights became a powerful kitchen table topic when SCOTUS overturned Row v. Wade.
Both true. In some Democratic strategist minds, Trump is the gift that keeps on giving. So much so that some Democrats actually contribute money to Trump-endorsed candidates because they want those nut-jobs to win their Republican primary elections. The reasoning is the nut-jobs will be easier to defeat in the general election than a more rational Republican.
I don't like that strategy. It's not a good-faith approach to elections and it elevates the nut-jobs to a prominence that they will continue to enjoy even if they are defeated. But the main point is, to some Democrats, Trump is indeed the gift that keeps on giving. They love how Trump shifts the spotlight onto himself and his nut-job endorsees and away from the more reasonable Republicans who would be a greater general-election threat.
This is different. This is a criminal investigation already involving judges in courts of law. If Trump is indicted on the charges named in the warrant he faces serious prison time.
it is of course your call to characterize all of this as political theater. There are others, including myself, see this as a refreshing application of the rule of law on a group of people who had little regard for it.
Last edited:
That's been the case for a while. He was a willing witness for the Jan 6 committee and he's one now.Exclusive: Trump's secret court fight to stop grand jury from getting information from his inner circle
Looks like former Trump White House adviser and lawyer Eric Herschmann is willing to sing.
He uses case law. Get educated.Still going with the Trumper Twatwaffle "legal analysis" I see ...
Some people never learn.
There is a witness to the declassification and also a written memorandum to declassify. Because the cronies dragged their feet about the declassification of a written order from a duly elected President who still retained all presidential powers enumerated in the constitution up until January 20, 2021 around noon, doesn't void that inconvenient fact.
Yet Another Item in Trump's Teetering House of Cards
The DWAC/Trump Media story is complex and this is not a definitive event. But this development is bad news for the deal; a deal that has been unraveling piece by piece in recent weeks.
Reports have been that DWAC executives are having a hard time getting retail investors to cast their votes. DWAC has maneuvered to gain more time to get those votes cast. I'm beginning to think the problem is not that the retail investors are too lazy or disengaged to cast their proxy votes. it's that they are no longer inclined to vote yes. A deal the investors once supported seems to be a deal they no longer support.
www.cnbc.com
The DWAC/Trump Media story is complex and this is not a definitive event. But this development is bad news for the deal; a deal that has been unraveling piece by piece in recent weeks.
Reports have been that DWAC executives are having a hard time getting retail investors to cast their votes. DWAC has maneuvered to gain more time to get those votes cast. I'm beginning to think the problem is not that the retail investors are too lazy or disengaged to cast their proxy votes. it's that they are no longer inclined to vote yes. A deal the investors once supported seems to be a deal they no longer support.
Trump-linked SPAC faces new pressure from investors as merger hangs in the balance
Investors in the Trump-linked SPAC Digital World are seeking protections against risk as the company faces another fate-deciding vote.
That is fantastic news for Trump and Trump wold! Great Joy! Let MAGA and QAnon all rise to proclaim once again that Trump was right!
We are certain to hear from this witness very soon right? We're certain to see the memo soon right? We are certain to see these presented to a judge in court under oath any day now, right? We can't wait! What a glorious day that will be!
P.S. I'm surprised there is just one witness and one memo. A man with Trump's powers could create 100 more just by thinking them, could he not?
Last edited:
Yet another found by a jury to be guilty of crimes.
Jan. 6 rioter Doug Jensen, among first to breach Capitol, guilty on seven criminal counts
The Iowa native's trial was among the most high profile cases for individuals who stormed the Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021.
www.usatoday.com
But, but, but he was such a good man!Yet another found by a jury to be guilty of crimes.
Jan. 6 rioter Doug Jensen, among first to breach Capitol, guilty on seven criminal counts
The Iowa native's trial was among the most high profile cases for individuals who stormed the Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021.www.usatoday.com