The Trump Card...

davekc

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Healthcare may wind up that way or a two tiered system. Either it collapses or we wind up with single payer for some who want it free, and quality care for those who pay.
 
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Turtle

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Obama scored a bin Laden touchdown in the 4th quarter. Still lost the game 52-6, though. Couldn't even make the PAT. All the covert killings and drone strikes were little more than first downs, some with large gains, but he still kept having to punt the ball.
 

OntarioVanMan

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Well yeah he lost the game over all and the new guy has started like a quarter horse out of the gate time will tell where all the chips fall
 

ATeam

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Healthcare may wind up that way or a two tiered system. Either it collapses or we wind up with single payer for some who want it free, and quality care for those who pay.

Trump may come to advocate that very thing. We've seen him flip flop on a host of issues. He once advocated universal health care. It would be nothing at all for him to flip back to that. If he figures out that he will gain a ton of support form the left by advocating single payer and some support from the center and right, I would not be surprised by a Trump flip in that direction.

Remember, for Trump, it's all about him and how he is doing in the polls.
 

ATeam

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Obama scored a bin Laden touchdown in the 4th quarter. Still lost the game 52-6, though. Couldn't even make the PAT. All the covert killings and drone strikes were little more than first downs, some with large gains, but he still kept having to punt the ball.

No Obama fan here, especially with his foreign policy. But he got a healthcare bill through congress while Trump cannot. How do you score that? Scoring depends, of course, on what you see the game and objective as. In terms of getting a health care bill through congress, it's Obama 1, Trump 0.

While it's early in the game, Obama also seems to be ahead if you score deficit reduction. Some of Trump's proposals are massive budget busters. The deficit shrank under Obama, did it not?

Job creation might be another fun game to score. To do that, we'd have to agree on the job data that would be used to keep score. Once that's done, it would be a simple matter to decide which administration did best in that area. It's too early to score that with Trump in office less than 100 days, but later on, scores can be tabulated.

What other meaningful areas are there that can be easily, objectively and fairly scored once the scoring standard is agreed on?
 
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Turtle

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No Obama fan here, especially with his foreign policy. But he got a healthcare bill through congress while Trump cannot. How do you score that?
As two different games. Far as I know, Obama never competed against Trump.
In terms of getting a health care bill through congress, it's Obama 1, Trump 0.
In terms of pissing off Nancy Pelosi, it's Trump 73, Obama 0. The Getting Healthcare Through Congress game isn't even over yet.
The deficit shrank under Obama, did it not?
It did. While at the same time the national debt doubled. That's like winning a game, but losing the season.

Job creation might be another fun game to score. To do that, we'd have to agree on the job data that would be used to keep score.
I would think the only meaningful data to the country would be that of full-time private sector, non-farm payrolls, above minimum wage.

What other meaningful areas are there that can be easily, objectively and fairly scored once the scoring standard is agreed on?
Oh, I dunno. If the insistence is to compare Obama for some reason, and not some other random president, like Andrew Jackson, Millard Fillmore, or Jimmy Carter, then I would think it needs to be on what Trump campaigned and what he got elected to do: trade deficits, taxes, regulations, immigration, national security, ISIS.
 

davekc

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Yes, I wouldn't say a reduction in the deficit was a win for Obama. Most as mentioned was borrowed and that is why we are at 20t in national debt and still growing. He did a ton of spending and stuck it on a charge card. He would like to blame Bush but after eight years, nope, not seeing that.
 
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Turtle

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Trump's ICE is just out of control. They're "emboldened in a way that [we] have never seen."

Uhm, OK.


BBzUGxz.img
 

Turtle

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See this:
Well, the link in the post above yours is to the original Washington Post article on it.

In any case, even tracking Trump's campaign promises isn't all that easy, as pretty much everything he said as a candidate often gets construed as an actual promise by the mainstream media if they can use it against him.

I mean PolitiFact, the "non-partisan" gold standard of fact checking entities, is currently tracking 102 of Trump's campaign promises (including getting the country to say "Merry Christmas again").
 

Turtle

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On a side note, politicians should be prohibited, under penalty of a buttwhipping, from using the phrase "we're going to redouble our efforts."

It's stupid.

It means, "We have thus far failed so spectacularly at doing our job that doubling our effort isn't good enough, we have to quadruple the effort."

It also means, "I really want you to believe that I'm working really hard on this, but I'm not."

Just shut up and git r dun.
 
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Pilgrim

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Trump's ICE is just out of control. They're "emboldened in a way that [we] have never seen."

Uhm, OK.


BBzUGxz.img
I just love the way articles about "illegal immigrants" are written in a new lexicon to suit the agenda of the liberal media - namely, the normalization of their criminality. They seem to be writing about criminals who may or may not have criminal records. I couldn't help but notice the first two paragraphs of the above referenced article and edit them a little bit, just for fun. :D

"Immigration arrests rose 32.6 percent in the first weeks of the Trump administration, with newly empowered federal agents intensifying their pursuit of not just illegal immigrants with criminal records, but also thousands of foreign criminals who have been otherwise law-abiding.


U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement arrested 21,362 illegal immigrants, mostly convicted criminals, from January through mid-March, compared to 16,104 during the same period last year, according to statistics requested by The Washington Post."


An article I read recently made the point that under US law there can be no "illegal immigrants"; people who come here to live can be either immigrants - which requires a legal status & perhaps the goal of citizenship - or illegal aliens not having gone through the proper legal process for residence, either permanent or temporary. Personally, I'm not sure about the legal details, but the premise makes sense. It now seems that the term "immigrant" is applied to anyone who lives here, and their legal status is irrelevant.
 
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Turtle

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It now seems that the term "immigrant" is applied to anyone who lives here, and their legal status is irrelevant
Yeah, technically that's true. An immigrant, be it a person or any other organism, is someone who moves into a new habitat, usually for permanent residence. A migrant is the same, only usually for less permanent residency.

People get all bent out of shape over the language. "You can't be all illegal person!" (Well, yeah ya can.) They prefer undocumented immigrant. That's just a euphemism that means exactly the same thing as illegal alien. The legal term is "unauthorized." Either you're authorized to be here or you're not, and if you're not, you're here illegally, since being here unauthorized is illegal.

On a side note, someone asked, "102 out of how many?" No one campaigns on 102 promises. Single-sided voters would explode. People campaign on about a dozen issues and promises. So when you track campaign promises, that's about the number that matters. But the media likes to keep track of every little utterance and make it a promise, so as to be able to give a failing score card (or at least one with a lot of fails) at the end.

They're just getting started with Trump. By the end, they tracked 533 promises by Obama.
 

ATeam

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In any case, even tracking Trump's campaign promises isn't all that easy, as pretty much everything he said as a candidate often gets construed as an actual promise by the mainstream media if they can use it against him.

One easy resource for this can be seen here. They limit the campaign promises tracked to the 60 Trump put in writing in his Contract With the American Voter.

During the campaign, some Trump supporters grew fond of telling others to take Trump's statements seriously but not literally. While that served as a clever campaign slogan, it turns out that the courts take Trump's words both seriously and literally. The former Trump supporters who have jumped off the Trump train often express feelings of betrayal because they took Trump's words literally and seriously, and what he said did not come to pass.

At the moment, Trump is flirting with the possibility of nuclear war with North Korea. I wonder if the Supreme Leader of North Korea is taking Trump's words, literally, seriously, both or neither.

Words matter, and there is no exception for Donald Trump.

On this day 88 of the Trump administration, the campaign promise tracker mentioned above shows five Trump promises kept, five broken and one compromise.

If someone approached our business to seek employment or provide a service, and presented a track record like that, Diane and I would send him/her away. If an expediter appeared at a pickup with a track record like that, the truck would not be loaded.

It does not surprise me that Trump is breaking some of his campaign promises. He had a well-established track record of not paying his contractors before he got elected. He told a bunch of falsehoods on the campaign trail.

In fairness, the same promise-tracking resource says that in eight years, Obama broke 17 campaign promises, kept 11 and compromised on 12 (scroll down to see that).
 
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Turtle

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One easy resource for this can be seen here. They limit the campaign promises tracked to the 60 Trump put in writing in his Contract With the American Voter.
Easy though it may be, I'm not sure the Washington Post is the credible arbiter of Trump's credibility.

During the campaign, some Trump supporters grew fond of telling others to take Trump's statements seriously but not literally. While that served as a clever campaign slogan, it turns out that the courts take Trump's words both seriously and literally. The former Trump supporters who have jumped off the Trump train often express feelings of betrayal because they took Trump's words literally and seriously, and what he said did not come to pass.
The former Trump supporters who have jumped off the train are largely the alt-right wacko fringe and do not represent Trump or his agenda. The are a small an insignificant species. Here's a piece from The Washington Post that details the myth of the disillusioned Trump voter.

At the moment, Trump is flirting with the possibility of nuclear war with North Korea. I wonder if the Supreme Leader of North Korea is taking Trump's words, literally, seriously, both or neither.
The Supreme Leader of North Korea would be wise to take Trump's words very seriously.

Words matter, and there is no exception for Donald Trump.
Words matter. Elections Matter. Tweets matter. Everything matters. Remember when his words called ALL women "nasty?" Remember when he called ALL Mexicans "rapists and drug dealers?" Yep, words matter.

On this day 88 of the Trump administration, the campaign promise tracker mentioned above shows five Trump promises kept, five broken and one compromise.
According to the Washington Post. Trump has YET to repeal and replace Obamacare = Broken Promise. Got it. Trump has YET to convince Congress, over whom he has no control, to also implement a 5 year ban on lobbying for congressional officials = Broken Promise. Got it. He grants a waiver for lobbying for ONE GUY who was a temporary "special government employee" who is only allowed to work for 130 days per year so he could go back to lobby for the very things Trump wants to get through Congress = Broken Promise. Got it.

If someone approached our business to seek employment or provide a service, and presented a track record like that, Diane and I would send him/her away. If an expediter appeared at a pickup with a track record like that, the truck would not be loaded.
Oh, goody. Red herrings. How about the pilot one? A pilot with a 50% successful landing rate, I wouldn't want to be a passenger on his plane. What if someone approached your business with a 50% success rate in signing up random people for memberships? That's a stellar average. What if the expediter was a load bidder and got a 50% winning bid rate? That's a load bidding rock star. How about a MLB player who only gets a hit 50% of the time? That's an MVP.

It does not surprise me that Trump is breaking some of his campaign promises. He had a well-established track record of not paying his contractors before he got elected. He told a bunch of falsehoods on the campaign trail.
I can't think of any major candidate (president, Senator, Representative, governor, etc.) who hasn't broken campaign promises, and who didn't tell a bunch of falsehoods on the campaign trail. As for Trump's "well-established track record of not paying his contractors," you should probably look a little closer than the MSM pundits reports on that. There were a few that got caught up in bankruptcies, but the only ones with an established record of not getting paid were the ones who failed to satisfactorily complete the work as promised. It's amazing how pundits and biased news personnel can just repeat something often enough, and people will believe it. My favorite is how he admitted to sexual assault, and grabbing women by the kittens. He never said either, but the pundits keep repeating it. My second favorite on is how Trump called "the media" the enemy of the people. Except he didn't say that at all. But people believe he did.

In fairness, the same promise-tracking resource says that in eight years, Obama broke 17 campaign promises, kept 11 and compromised on 12 (scroll down to see that).
In fairness, The Washington Post blames Congress for nearly every one of the Obama promises broken. And in fairness, the big one, "Insure more Americans, provide a variety of insurance options accessible through an exchange and end insurance company abuses," The Washington Post rates it as a Promise Kept, except he never made that promise. WaPo crafted that in order to rate it as Promise Kept. Obama promised to sign a "universal health care bill" that would cover "every American." Even PolitiFact rates that one as a Compromise, as not all states were required to expand Medicaid and thus at least 10% of the population are without insurance. WaPo has also determined that the ONLY way to make two and four year colleges more affordable is with more federal dollar grants given to students, and because his budget doesn't do that, they rate the promise as Broken. The fact is, Trump promised early in the campaign to reduce the amount of federal dollars for grants, and to make it much less of a free-for-all with government backed student loans, and as a result, tuition at many colleges and universities is getting slashed by as much as 40 percent.
 

ATeam

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As for Trump's "well-established track record of not paying his contractors," you should probably look a little closer than the MSM pundits reports on that. There were a few that got caught up in bankruptcies, but the only ones with an established record of not getting paid were the ones who failed to satisfactorily complete the work as promised. It's amazing how pundits and biased news personnel can just repeat something often enough, and people will believe it.

I don't have to look to any media organization to verify how Trump treats his contractors. I was once a Trump contractor as were others I then knew. Our personal experience preceded the news reports in question and lent credibility to them.
 

davekc

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As for Trump's "well-established track record of not paying his contractors," you should probably look a little closer than the MSM pundits reports on that. There were a few that got caught up in bankruptcies, but the only ones with an established record of not getting paid were the ones who failed to satisfactorily complete the work as promised. It's amazing how pundits and biased news personnel can just repeat something often enough, and people will believe it.

I don't have to look to any media organization to verify how Trump treats his contractors. I was once a Trump contractor as were others I then knew. Our personal experience preceded the news reports in question and lent credibility to them.

Is that something you could elaborate on? Just curious as most is second hand accounts or people with a different agenda.
 
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