The real bottom line in WG

[ATeam]

>The white glove of the Roberts days are much different than
>what you see today. Rates were quite different.
>You are right, that was when you could make some big money.
>
>Davekc
>owner
>21 years

I've heard that "good old days, big money" statement many times but it has never been quantified. Please, provide an example of the big money of the good old days; what was a good month back then, and a good year?

 

[davekc]

$20,000 and higher for a month was great.
Remember that trucks, fuel and other costs were a fraction of what they are today.
It has been a while since I can remember doing 4.00 and 5.00 dollar a mile loads.

Davekc

 

[Marty]

Rates aren't only lower today in WG as oppossed to what they were in the past. They are significantly lower in general Expediting.

 

[BigBusBob]

Ok. Putting my 2 cents in here... I have to agree with Dave on this thread regarding specifically the ads and trucks issue. I see many ads for FedEx, and very few for PII. More specifically I see many ads for FedEx WG drivers wanted... or trucks for sale that are White Glove ready. Rarely will one see ads for SS (Special Services) drivers and/or trucks. PII is growing, thats good. Recently at Freightliner of Knoxville, Jon - the chief salesman for expediters there- told me he had 3 units being built right now for PII Special Services Division. 3 units, at $165,000+... that is saying something... that the business is there. The money must be there. I would love to run a unit in the special services division again at PII. When I did run for them a while back they were very nice, you work outside of the regular dispatchers, you work with only about 5 people in the SS division. They call you on a 1st name basis. They treat with respect and dignity. They even gave me straps and blankets to run help me run their loads. Granted FedEx has many more trucks in it's WG fleet to work with and contend with, I have to wonder about them when I see so many ads for WG drivers needed and WG trucks for sale.
Inside PII, PII is screaming for Special Services trucks, they have the business available, they simply don't have the trucks right now.
I think the initial investment scares off owners. One of the threads did mention... do a few loads that pay like $2K plus and some of those truck investments are essentially "Paid for".
I did rather well just with lift gate, and they really wanted me to add a reefer. However the owner (who turned out to be a rascal - read the archives) didn't want to invest into reefer, let alone a generator that actually worked. Darn AUX units!
I must add though that I did see my old rig that I ran in, that was sold at Fyda I'm told... along I-20 East bound in GA... running for Landstar Express America... it was very dirty though. I was West Bound with a "Live" load towards Montgomery.
Also, today I came across an Expediter here in NW SC that had an ExpeditersOnline.com Bumper Sticker on the back right barn door. They were a team it looked like, in a sharp International with walk-thru 96" sleeper running for Con-Way Now... clean rig I might add. I thought it was nice to see, not only a rig with "our" site sticker on it, but that the rig was well kept and clean - which presented a positive image towards the industry.

Back to the subject though, I would invest into a lift gate, they're good to have, along with a pallet jack. I think the 3rd axle, however you have it, is also good to have. The reefer unit, I'm still wondering about that. PII has told me in the past that most of their temp. controlled stuff is A&E loads and chemicals needing to stay near 72 degrees.
I've heard that there are some owners with PII that do indeed own their own trailers, that are reefer trailers at that... whats up with that? I'd be curious about that too.
In expediting, how much of the reefer loads are semi's versus straight trucks??? is there a big difference? Would it be more profitable to run a reefer equipped trailer versus a straight truck with a reefer??? There's some interesting questions I'd like to see answered.

Big Bus Bob

 

[truckerbse2]

I'm not sure why you think the "base rate" is more for WG than for Surface. It isn't at all. That is the point of the extra equipment. For each piece of equipment required there is an accessorial charge associated. That is what boosts the rate up. There can be several different charges for one load. Also at times the relocation money associated with the load is more for white glove. It depends on how badly they need you. In your account you added the deadhead to pick up the load and the deadhead to pick up the next load. While agree you must add DH miles to figure the rate, the deadhead to the next load should go against the rate of the next load.
I can also tell you that you probably will not run as many loads with WG as with Surface, but they will pay more overall. Comparing a year with Surface to a Year with WG our overall rate is up about $.50 per mile. Our miles are down and our revenue is about the same which hurts right now because of the extra investment, however that is offset by the fact that we are not purchasing as much fuel and wearing out our tires as fast. There is definitely a break in period w/ WG during which you really need to put your best foot forward and learn the system. The way it works is different than Surface in some ways good and some ways bad.

Also someone posted that Panther requires security clearance and FDCC WG does not. That is not totally true. While if you are unable to be cleared it will not knock you out of WG, you are required to submit the application and be willing to go through the various training classes like RadMat, Explosives, and PSS.

Becky
WG Reefer E team

 

[truckerbse2]

I have an E unit reefer and it is not doing well in WG, but that I believe to be a personal problem and we are learning to deal with that. At the time we purchased it we were actually leaning toward a D unit Reefer. From the D trucks we have talked to they are running very well and being paid well to do it. There is the issue of T-Val which I have just been told by T-Val testers you are not eligible for until you have had your unit on for 6 months to prove you can run your unit and handle the freight. If you are working for a fleet owner who already has reefer units on and T-Val'd then you get around this. At this point it is only fleet owners with T-Val'd equipment who are being allowed to bring on a reefer...again double check this with your recruiter and or CC as it changes frequently.

Whether C,D, or E there is a building process: meaning there is more reefer freight all the time. I am not sure what this new flat rate deal will do to the overall scheme of things.

 

[truckerbse2]

Yes, from drivers I know who were with Roberts that pay is not always as much, but sometimes it is more. For example the load you hauled from GA to CA would have paid cloer to 12k today. The money is there, you just have to be qualified to haul the load and mind your business enough to not be tied up on garbage or babysitting jobs when the good loads come around. Still, there is something to being in the right place at the right time as well.

 

[tec1959]

Truckerbse2: Hi i agree that load now would pay that today,But that load i hauled remember that was back in 97-98 and alot of things were alot cheaper like with your fuel,tires and the equiptment and things like that.Good luck in your travels...

 

[davekc]

Comparing a year with Surface to a Year with WG our overall rate is up about $.50 per mile. Our miles are down and our revenue is about the same which hurts right now because of the extra investment, however that is offset by the fact that we are not purchasing as much fuel and wearing out our tires as fast. There is definitely a break in period w/ WG during which you really need to put your best foot forward and learn the system. The way it works is different than Surface in some ways good and some ways bad.

Thanks for a great post. This validates most of the areas were concerns can't be overlooked. Your experiences are very simular to the ones we had. Income in WG was pretty simular to surface, so it wasn't that beneficial to invest in the extra equipment. Even more so, if someone is new. Some will of course argue a different point, but again, our experiences were pretty simular.

Davekc
owner
21 years

 

[JoeR]

As a recent W.G. lease operator on a 60/40 split with the fleet owner, I feel that I can give some first hand information on W.G.

We (H/W) ran a D unit, NON-reefer, liftgate and all accessories. We were averaging about $1.25 per mile for all miles, and that includes quite a bit of deadhead. We had a 100 pct on time p/u and delivery record, claim and complaint free.

We were recently forced out of White Glove because our load acceptance percentage was well below the minimum 60 percent. To keep our per mile rate up, we turned down an awful lot of loads. I'll give a couple of examples in a minute.

Let me state that the reason we are in the expedited industry is to make money, pure and simple. Our reason for being here is not to see the country, meet new people, or to take care of the customers. Those are all things we want to do, provided we are operating at a decent profit. I'm not greedy, but we do need to earn a living and pay the bills.

Our last load refusal was a white glove load going from the N.E. to Charleston SC. It required constant surveillance, which meant one of us would have to stay up all night and watch it as we would arrive around 8 pm, but the load couldnt deliver until 8 am the next morning. There was no fuel surcharge on this load, and with the deadhead, it payed less than one dollar per mile!.

Recently we sat in Rochester NY, a good area, for several days. All of our offers were to D/H around 350 to 400 miles, for loads going from 77 to 500 miles. These were mostly surface loads. When D/H was figured in, they were paying between .74 and $1.03 per mile. You cant earn a good living when 40 to 70 percent of your miles are D/H.

My operating strategy was to make at least $1.25 per mile for all miles, and not take too many runs to Timbuktu. Unfortunately it didnt work out. That saddens me, because except for a couple of policies, I really liked Fedex, and still do for that matter.

We did have some good runs too, both surface and W.G.. I've had several surface loads that paid better than many of the W.G. loads that were offered to us. Some we took, many we didnt.

I guess my long winded point is; dont think you will make a fortune in W.G., because it probably wont happen. It may be hard to believe, but not all W.G. loads are good paying loads. It's probably from too much competition and cut throating. When that happens, it's the drivers and the fleet owners who really get the short end of the stick.

Joe

 

[ATeam]

>I guess my long winded point is; dont think you will make a
>fortune in W.G., because it probably wont happen. It may be
>hard to believe, but not all W.G. loads are good paying
>loads. It's probably from too much competition and cut
>throating. When that happens, it's the drivers and the fleet
>owners who really get the short end of the stick.
>
>Joe

It does not surprise me at all. It's true. Not all WG loads are good paying loads. In our experience, we've had some surface expedite loads that paid better than most WG loads. A lot of times, it works out that way because of where we happen to be when the offer comes in and the amount of deadhead that results. Readers researching WG should note that WG drivers do not haul only WG loads. We haul a whole lot of general freight too at general freight rates. WG makes you eligible to haul certain kinds of loads you would not otherwise get, but if you tried to earn a living entirely on WG, it would be tough.

 

[davekc]

Ateam wrote;
Since you're one that is running T-Val now, I'd love to hear your response to DaveKC's consistent negative posts about the value of reefers. His most recent reads, "Your situation is not that uncommon, and validates many posts with regards to buying trucks with reefers ect. Investments of that type have to pay for themselves or there is little reason to invest in them."

He once ran reefers years ago but offers little more than antedoctal evidence to support his views today

I have done many posts on this issue. It is true that I don't currently run reefers of any type. But once again, one only needs to do the math. The investment for WG is close to double what a regular surface expedite truck would be. Plus additional maintenance, taxes, insurance, deadhead, and the list goes on. That is why I refer to it as a calling, rather than a pathway to prosperity.
It is real simple. In WG, are you consistently running for twice the rate that a regular expedite is running for? Or, are you consistently running (all paid mile runs) at or above $2.50 per mile plus fuel surcharge? Has revenue for YTD been doubled?
The answer is, you clearly are not. JoeR's post is just another example. And if so, everyone would be there. Certainly not the case when looking at EO classifieds.
One doesn't need to be in WG to know whether there is some great payoff. All one needs to know is the rate and CPM average to determine the return.
There is no point in complicating something that only requires simple math.
As they say, "simple thoughts for simple minds"

Davekc
owner
21 years

 

[greg334]

OK..... I am confused. I keep hearing that the investment of equipment is or is not worth it.

Outside the obvious; pallet jack, blankets and straps, can someone please explain what really needs to be on the truck to qualify for FedEx WG or P2 Special Services?

Thanks

 

[Jack Jackson]

Davekc wrote

>As they say, "simple thoughts for simple minds"

OK Dave, here's some simple thoughts for you.

Our load on Friday went 261 miles and paid $647.47 . We had a wonderful day driving along, not having to hurry because FedEx White Gloves trusts us to do our best. Oh, we used the reefer and liftgate on this load.

Before we loaded it, the supervisor of the facility came out and chatted with us for about ten minutes before he said, "You know, we really love you guys. We never worry at all when we load it on one of your trucks. You really are the best."

We have had quite a few Multi-million dollar shipments where the shipper never bothered putting a seal on the truck. When I asked why, they always say " We trust you, you guys are the best."

When we pick up an art load and I ask " Don't we have a courier for this load, I hear this. "With anyone else we would, but not with White Gloves, we trust you to get it there safe."

The real reason that my wife and I are White Glove Contractors are for exactly these kind of customer reactions, number 1. And number 2 for the above average pay.

I also know we will continue to earn more than other company's contractors because their marketing strategy seems to be, find out where FedEx customers are, then go in and cut the rates.

There is FEDEX CUSTOM CRITICAL and there is "not as good as" FEDEX

 

[davekc]

The real reason that my wife and I are White Glove Contractors are for exactly these kind of customer reactions, number 1. And number 2 for the above average pay.

That is specifically why I refer to it as a calling.
As an owner, I ownly look at the investment side of the things.
No loyalty, nothing personal, and no puffery.
Granted you might have had a great run.
That means little to me when looking at the investment side of things. Recent post depict what I am seeing.
As mentioned, I only look at the rates, investment and the CPM average.
I have on occassions dealt with Fedex freight agents and know specifically what rates their freight moves at. That is a large portion of where I base my opinions at. Again, no loyalty, nothing personal, and no puffery.

Davekc
owner
21 years

 

[ATeam]

Again, no
>loyalty, nothing personal, and no puffery.
>
>Davekc
>owner
>21 years

Great DaveKC! Here's an idea for you to consider. It's one that will clearly be in the best interests of your best teams.

I don't know how many Panther II teams you run as a fleet owner. Whatever the number is, offer the best half the opportunity to sit down with a FedEx CC recuriter, with you present, and do a no-loyalty, nothing-personal, and no-puffery analysis of how they could do with you and how they'd do driving in a WG fleet ownener's reefer truck. You can offer all the Panther II stories you want. We FedEx'ers will offer our stories too, backed with factual information. Give your drivers the opportunity to see all the information on both opportunities and let them decide what is in their own best interests.

 

[louixo]

Having done both in my trucking career, I have to conclude that daveKC is right on from the investment side and the return, when you do WG or SS.It boils down to: Do you want to drive more miles, or not? If your´re getting the miles at the base surface rate, you´ll end up at years end, not far from a WG owner. Just compare the yearly gross of both trucks, and then subtract the extra costs for equipment, insurance, etc., for the WG truck and you´ll see, you, as a surface guy won´t be far behind the WG guy, if you´re getting the average miles from your company. But, you will have experienced alot less logistic, extra labor, rpoblem solving, labor intensive, headaches over the year. Some people thrive on the challenge of specialized. I know I did when I was in it.
I now have a friend that works for one of the ground haulers. He gets his dispatch a week in advance, and knows where he has to be all week. He always pulls light loads, and consistently gets around 3500 miles per week. His base rate is around .87cpm, I think, and with surcharges and some accessorials (doubles, triples etc.)he´s topping well over $1.00 all miles, never sits, and doesn´t load or unload. I´m sure he could match yearly net with most of us, because he does those miles consistently, week in and week out. His only hassles are what he finds on the road. So,IMO WG and that ilk are a calling, like daveKC says, and it can be alot of fun and very challenging. I think the phrase is "you can take pride" in it. But you won´t get rich.

 

[davekc]

Ateam wrote

Great DaveKC! Here's an idea for you to consider. It's one that will clearly be in the best interests of your best teams.

I don't know how many Panther II teams you run as a fleet owner. Whatever the number is, offer the best half the opportunity to sit down with a FedEx CC recuriter, with you present, and do a no-loyalty, nothing-personal, and no-puffery analysis of how they could do with you and how they'd do driving in a WG fleet ownener's reefer truck. You can offer all the Panther II stories you want. We FedEx'ers will offer our stories too, backed with factual information. Give your drivers the opportunity to see all the information on both opportunities and let them decide what is in their own best interests.

====================================
Your question is answered. I have a team that is former WG. They have no interest in going back. Between Panther and my own load sources, their choice was made easy for them.
Every situation is different. They net better with my truck than when they had their own. Go figure.

Davekc
owner
21 years

Davekc