The Libertarians.... spoilers
- Thread starter Ragman
- Start date
Ummm? that vote for a third party might push her over the top. It is all about the end result. No need to complicate the simple.
Read you can alter that by bumping adversaries off. Bill and Hillary have reportedly been busy. lol
Remember how Ralph Nader took several thousand votes away from Gore in Florida? There ya go.
Granted, the are other valid arguments to be made beyond such a simplistic conclusion, but as the video above excellently shows, a third party candidate can have a major effect on an election outcome, and more often than not it ends up being the worst outcome for those doing the actual third party voting.
Granted, the are other valid arguments to be made beyond such a simplistic conclusion, but as the video above excellently shows, a third party candidate can have a major effect on an election outcome, and more often than not it ends up being the worst outcome for those doing the actual third party voting.
And on the other side of the spoiler discussion...
Are Third Party and Independent Candidates Really 'Spoilers'? - IVN.us
Are Third Party and Independent Candidates Really 'Spoilers'? - IVN.us
"The debate over whether third party and independent candidates are spoilers depends on one’s beliefs about to whom a citizen’s vote belongs: those outside the political duopoly insist that a vote should be cast for the candidate whom the voter wants to see elected, whereas Republicans and Democrats presume that votes “belong” to them, and that votes for an alternative candidate amount to “wasted” votes.
With unfavorability ratings at an all-time high for Clinton and Trump, it is up to voters to decide which approach to voting they will adopt this November: will they vote their conscience for their preferred candidates, or will they reject them as the spoilers that the major parties advertise them to be?"
What a great quote!
You voted for the lead singer from Yes?
Whether third party candidates are spoilers is certainly debatable and depends on your point of view. Nevertheless, I reiterate, there is no debate on whether a third party candidate can have a major effect on an election outcome. History has shown that it can.
If you for-sure don't want Trump to win, and you just can't bring yourself to vote Hillary even though you'd normally vote for the democratic candidate, if you vote for a third party candidate you are subtracting one vote from Hillary while leaving Trump's vote tally unchanged, thereby making it more likely (by one vote) that Trump wins. Whether you call that a spoiler is up to you, but the result is that you have the one candidate which you absolutely, positively do not want to win getting a better chance to win.
If there is a candidate that you absolutely, positively do not want to win, the only strategic vote you can cast to help ensure that that candidate loses, is to cast your vote for any other candidate who has a chance of winning.
I've never voted for a political party. I've always voted my conscience. Members of both political parties can claim my vote as a spoiler, but they would both be wrong in counting on my vote in the first place.
If you for-sure don't want Trump to win, and you just can't bring yourself to vote Hillary even though you'd normally vote for the democratic candidate, if you vote for a third party candidate you are subtracting one vote from Hillary while leaving Trump's vote tally unchanged, thereby making it more likely (by one vote) that Trump wins. Whether you call that a spoiler is up to you, but the result is that you have the one candidate which you absolutely, positively do not want to win getting a better chance to win.
If there is a candidate that you absolutely, positively do not want to win, the only strategic vote you can cast to help ensure that that candidate loses, is to cast your vote for any other candidate who has a chance of winning.
I've never voted for a political party. I've always voted my conscience. Members of both political parties can claim my vote as a spoiler, but they would both be wrong in counting on my vote in the first place.
A closer look at Gary Johnson yields this:
'Liberty-Loving' Gary Johnson wants a carbon tax to solve climate change
I do think in this election Johnson will draw more from Hillary than from Trump, although not by much. You can see that in the polls where, as the press says, "Clinton ahead by 8 points, 48 to 40, in the polls!" and then when they get 75 paragraphs down into the piece we see that those 8 points are really only in the head-to-head match-up, but when Johnson and Stein are included we see that Clinton has a 4 point lead and it's 42-38, where Johnson and Stein took 2 from Trump and 6 from Hillary.
Well said.
It is the vote my conscience that has led me to go 3rd party for the first time and dump Trump. I have voted republican all my life except for my very first election when I voted for Walter Mondale with family effluence. Quickly becoming a Reaganite afterwards and never would consider another party let alone a 3rd party until this year.
Over the years I have drifted from far right to the middle. I see the good and bad of both party's but still lean republican. I don't subscribe to the lessor of two evils. There both bad choices in my view. Sadly I do think one would be a better acting president (not performance wise) but show more respect for the office. And that would be (vomiting in my mouth) Hillary.
So my vote for Trump is gone already. If Hillary wins as a result of my 3rd party vote, I'm fine with that also. At least for once in this election battle my conscious is clear.
Like Moot, I voted for John Anderson in my first presidential election. I voted for Reagan in his second term, but other than that it's been mostly a third party candidate for me.
I'm quite liberal on some issues, quite conservative on others, so the whole notion of being a single issue voter seems silly and short sighted to me, because I'm going to disagree wildly on some issue or another with whomever I vote for.
In this election, I wholeheartedly prefer Trump over Hillary, because Hillary is corrupt scum. She lies habitually, and then lies about lying, and then bolsters that with either more lies or becomes defensive and flippant about it. Then she'll feign ignorance and chalk it up to an innocent mistake, which becomes totally laughable considering she's a lawyer who went to law school and everything. She's smart and calculating, knowing exactly what she's doing before she does it.
Trump on the other hand would give the office of the president a much needs kick irreverence and unpredictability. But I doubt that I'll vote for him.
How Republican vs Democrat are you?
It's a test to see where you fall in the political spectrum,assuming you answer the questions honestly. There is a slider to indicate how important an individual question is to you, so do that, and if there's an option to answer more questions, do that.
My score was
Libertarian 81%
Republican 71%
Constitution 59%
Green 35%
Democrat 20%
I'm a big fan of personal liberty and responsibility, of truth, justice and the American Way envisioned by The Founding Fathers.
I'm quite liberal on some issues, quite conservative on others, so the whole notion of being a single issue voter seems silly and short sighted to me, because I'm going to disagree wildly on some issue or another with whomever I vote for.
In this election, I wholeheartedly prefer Trump over Hillary, because Hillary is corrupt scum. She lies habitually, and then lies about lying, and then bolsters that with either more lies or becomes defensive and flippant about it. Then she'll feign ignorance and chalk it up to an innocent mistake, which becomes totally laughable considering she's a lawyer who went to law school and everything. She's smart and calculating, knowing exactly what she's doing before she does it.
Trump on the other hand would give the office of the president a much needs kick irreverence and unpredictability. But I doubt that I'll vote for him.
How Republican vs Democrat are you?
It's a test to see where you fall in the political spectrum,assuming you answer the questions honestly. There is a slider to indicate how important an individual question is to you, so do that, and if there's an option to answer more questions, do that.
My score was
Libertarian 81%
Republican 71%
Constitution 59%
Green 35%
Democrat 20%
I'm a big fan of personal liberty and responsibility, of truth, justice and the American Way envisioned by The Founding Fathers.
My results.......
79%
Gary Johnson Libertarian
on social, environmental, healthcare, foreign policy, and education issues.
compare answers
69%
Donald Trump Republican
on environmental and education issues.
compare answers
68%
Jill Stein Green
on social, immigration, and education issues.
compare answers
55%
Hillary Clinton Democratic
on science and immigration issues.
compare answers
79%
Gary Johnson Libertarian
on social, environmental, healthcare, foreign policy, and education issues.
compare answers
69%
Donald Trump Republican
on environmental and education issues.
compare answers
68%
Jill Stein Green
on social, immigration, and education issues.
compare answers
55%
Hillary Clinton Democratic
on science and immigration issues.
compare answers
It's a pretty interesting little self-quiz that more or less lets you know how you stand on the issues compared to the candidates (probably why the Website is isidewith.com <snort>), especially if you do all the "answer more" questions and move the slider as to the relative importance. It's a quiz that all voters should take before casting their vote. Might change a few votes.
Yes? No!
My first presidential election I voted for the Peanut Farmer. I attribute that vote to youthful ignorance and a vote for Ford was a vote, like, for the continuation of, like the whole Nixon fascist pig trip, man.