The Government and GPS Tracking

[Turtle]

The Government's New Right to Track Your Every Move With GPS

By ADAM COHEN – Wed Aug 25, 7:05 pm ET

Government agents can sneak onto your property in the middle of the night, put a GPS device on the bottom of your car and keep track of everywhere you go. This doesn't violate your Fourth Amendment rights, because you do not have any reasonable expectation of privacy in your own driveway - and no reasonable expectation that the government isn't tracking your movements.

That is the bizarre - and scary - rule that now applies in California and eight other Western states. The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit, which covers this vast jurisdiction, recently decided the government can monitor you in this way virtually anytime it wants - with no need for a search warrant.

It is a dangerous decision - one that, as the dissenting judges warned, could turn America into the sort of totalitarian state imagined by George Orwell. It is particularly offensive because the judges added insult to injury with some shocking class bias: the little personal privacy that still exists, the court suggested, should belong mainly to the rich.

Yeah, you really should read the rest of this one.
The Government's New Right to Track Your Every Move With GPS - Yahoo! News

I wonder what the attitude towards this is from expediters and others who have GPD tracking on their trucks.

I also have to wonder, if it's legal to secretly install a GPS tracking device on your car in your driveway, is it equally legal to secretly install a GPS tracking device on a police car that's parked in a police parking lot or the parking lot of a restaurant? Then, have some smartphone app that reports the locations of all of the police cars in the area. There ya go.

 

[pjjjjj]

That's pretty unbelievable.
I'm not sure if it's even legal for an employer to track an employee's whereabouts during company time with an employer-issued phone which has a gps in it. As far as I know, the employer must disclose this, and that's when the property even belongs to them, and they're paying for the time of the person using it.
And if it's legal to install a device on a piece of private property which is situated on a piece of private property, then it would also probably be legal to inadvertently install a device into a purse of a woman walking down the street.
And if that's legal, then that means it would be legal for predators to stalk whoever they want, and I thought that was illegal?
It just doesn't make sense.
On the positive side however, I don't think the government would necessarily be interested in where the common folk are going, unless they're large enough criminals. We all say we want to dispose of the criminals, yet it seems that everything the police come up with to do just that gets met with huge opposition over rights infringement, and ends up being abolished.
Can't win.
Everything imposes on somebody's rights, somewhere, some time. Personally, I don't give a crap if the government wants to see where I go, they'd get bored pretty quick, and I'm sure they don't give a rat's *ss what most people are doing or where they're going. I'd rather them see where I go, and at the same time catch the bad guys and get them off the streets, than worry about who is going to see me go where.

 

[layoutshooter]

The U.S. Coast Guard now as the authority, passed by Congress, to put a similar device on ALL boats. It is designed to make tracking large vessels more accurate than radar. It works along the lines of identification beacons used by aircraft. (I know I am might not be using proper terms so get over it) The Coast Guard uses it in crowed shipping lanes to make traffic control easier.

The congress passed a law giving them the authority to require these doohickeys (I cannot recall the name of the system) on ALL boats, no matter what size, if the Coast Guard sees fit. The system is known as AIS. Automated Identification System.

Charter boat captains were the first to sound off correctly claiming that these devices, which can be accessed by anyone, will destroy their businesses by providing direct access to their "secret" fishing spots.

IF required on all boats the government will know where you are at all times.

As with everything this is a double edge. It could make traffic control on the water safer and easier. It could make rescue of disabled boats or recovery of sick or injured people easier. The cost of that is another loss of personal freedom and more government control over our lives.

 

[LDB]

"We're from the government. We're here to help"

 

[Turtle]

Everything imposes on somebody's rights, somewhere, some time. Personally, I don't give a crap if the government wants to see where I go, they'd get bored pretty quick, and I'm sure they don't give a rat's *ss what most people are doing or where they're going.

The problem is, if these sorts of encroachments (on our privacy) are tolerated, authorities will only seek more and more power - until something you do every day actually is illegal, and we'll have the monitoring infrastructure to back it up and enforce it. What if it gets to the point where the government has the power and decides to restrict your movements, and can track them? What if, in order to conserve fuel and protect the environment, no unnecessary trips in the car, with "unnecessary" being determined by the government. They track a daily trip down the street to Tim Hortons and decide you drink too much coffee and are destroying the environment to get your fix. Uh, oh.

What if they don't like where you're going because they think you're up to something. This kind of tracking could, and almost certainly would, lead to guilt-by-association type stuff. What if you and a genuine bad guy just so happens to shop and the same grocery store every week? What are you two up to? No good, no doubt. Come with us, please. We have some questions for you. And you're never heard from again. All because you picked the wrong time each week to buy eggs and milk. Think it can't happen? History proves it can. That very scenario happened more than once in East Germany.

We suddenly become closer to a police state, with technology taking on the role of the KGB or the East German Stasi where people were always watching, watching everything you do and everywhere you go, and watching with a very suspicious eye.


I don't think this one will hold up under the Supreme Court, mainly because the Equal Protection Clause says you cannot have different laws in one part of the country as compared to another part of the country. Plus, the Ninth Circuit is the most overruled Circuit Court in the country, however. They're pretty out of touch. Then again, the SCOTUS has come up with some truly bizarre rulings over the years.

 

[layoutshooter]

oh lets see...I could go back a few years in the archives here and see what the minions said about the Patriot Act...like
"whats to be afraid if you have nothing to hide" excuse?

Darned Bush supporters in here/conservs thought it was ok...fools....

and now we have this....of course we do....we opened the door and they are walking right in.....
resistance is futile...

Hey, Obama re-signed the SAME Patriot Act. Don't count me in that mess.

Bush sucked, Obama sucks FAR worse. Obama is terminal brain cancer for this Nation!!

Morning OVM!!!

 

[layoutshooter]

Morning Joe....

I said when the P.A was passed it was a slippery slope...and guys in here said what I said in the previous post....BULL!!

no search warrants, wiretaps the whole sshbang....a little here, a little there....

Yep, headed that way. This has the same or greater potential for trouble. The government is NOT able to monitor EVERY phone call made. There are just NOT enough people to listen to the BILLIONS made in this country every day.

I know, computers do it. Right, sure they do. MAYBE there is enough computer power in the government now to do that, I kinda doubt it, but it is possible. The cost would be staggering. Little of value would ever be gained. Even IF they were watching EVERY call, a person STILL has to listen to each call of interest. NOW, know WHERE you are at every minute is different. NO ONE has the RIGHT to KNOW where my favorite "rock" is when I am walleye fishing!! Shoot, I even blindfold those I take out there!!

 

[Turtle]

It's kind of like those who aren't against the banning of certain types of guns, because those types of guns aren't the kind they own. "They're banning assault rifles, not shotguns!" Yet that's the slippery slope to the open door that lets them eventually come after the types of guns you do own.

 

[layoutshooter]

It's kind of like those who aren't against the banning of certain types of guns, because those types of guns aren't the kind they own. "They're banning assault rifles, not shotguns!" Yet that's the slippery slope to the open door that lets them eventually come after the types of guns you do own.

Yep, that mess started way back in the 1930's. THAT is when they banned "assault rifles", short shotguns etc. You are 100% correct, the slope is steep and it has been greased by greasy politicians. Obama is one of the "greasyest" I have EVER seen.

 

[layoutshooter]

And these whacko parents VOLUNTARILY having tracking chips implanted in their kids!!! the government sees this and how stupid the public is and jumps right on this opportunity...

of course Joe they are not going to listen to every call...but it opens a door for Barney Fife to abuse the law....to deny "due process"....

Oh, I know the potential for problems. I see it every day. Our government is ALL about controlling us. They want 100% of the power and control. Nothing new, that is the way ALL governments role. Can't trust any of them. Due process is going away right along the presumption of innocence. You know, mandatory drug testing?

 

[layoutshooter]

and for those who might be inclined I am picking on the U.S...

It is happening in every country that is more technically advanced....

a disclaimer to keep them from pounding on me...*LOL*

OVM, I PROMISE you that we will find MUCH more to pound on you for!!!

 

[layoutshooter]

That is so thoughtful....heart warming....inspirational...

I knew you would feel all warm and runny!!!

 

[Ragman]

Oh, I know the potential for problems. I see it every day. Our government is ALL about controlling us. They want 100% of the power and control. Nothing new, that is the way ALL governments role. Can't trust any of them. Due process is going away right along the presumption of innocence. You know, mandatory drug testing?

Don't forget to say " ZEIG HEIL!"

 

[layoutshooter]

Don't forget to say " ZEIG HEIL!"

You got that right!!

 

[Turtle]

Got another one for you to think about. I've known that they were using these in both Afghanistan and Iraq, but had no idea they had been deployed on the streets here. The same full-body scanners that are used at airports are now mobile, inside Sprinter box truck chassis vans and roaming the streets, peering inside your vehicle to see whatever is there.

It used to be they had to have probable cause to look inside your car or truck beyond what they could see through the windows, but not anymore, not with this.

"It’s no surprise that governments and vendors are very enthusiastic about [the vans],” says Marc Rotenberg, executive director of EPIC. “But from a privacy perspective, it’s one of the most intrusive technologies conceivable.”

Full-Body Scan Technology Deployed In Street-Roving Vans - Forbes

 

[layoutshooter]

oh but..if you have nothing to hide and are an upright citizen...you have nothing to fear....

You need to be the most careful, you with your legal green card and all. You are more likely to be deported than an illegal would be!! Man did you screw up. Imagine the silly idea that legal is better than illegal.

 

[layoutshooter]

technically..a bad attitude can get me deported...and J walk? it is over...back I go....

I have more rules and laws then being an illegal...go figure...

Yep, you messed up!! You work and pay taxes too!! SHAME ON YOU!!! Bet you speak some form of English too, don't you?

 

[layoutshooter]

NO..I speak Canadian!!! so there...

I am taking Rosetta Stone course on American...

but there is an extra TAX on that course....*LOL*

It is NOT called "American" it is called "' 'Merican " Canadians speak more english than we do. You still have queen stuff up there. How goofy is that?

 

[pjjjjj]

Got another one for you to think about. I've known that they were using these in both Afghanistan and Iraq, but had no idea they had been deployed on the streets here. The same full-body scanners that are used at airports are now mobile, inside Sprinter box truck chassis vans and roaming the streets, peering inside your vehicle to see whatever is there.

It used to be they had to have probable cause to look inside your car or truck beyond what they could see through the windows, but not anymore, not with this.

"It’s no surprise that governments and vendors are very enthusiastic about [the vans],” says Marc Rotenberg, executive director of EPIC. “But from a privacy perspective, it’s one of the most intrusive technologies conceivable.”

Full-Body Scan Technology Deployed In Street-Roving Vans - Forbes

See what I mean? Here's your chance to catch all those crazy illegals as they cross the border illegally into your country, and you complain about your privacy. Like I said, can't win!
I understand what you're saying, your point of view, I just think the fear is a little overboard... to the point of CWAZY!

 

[Turtle]

See what I mean? Here's your chance to catch all those crazy illegals as they cross the border illegally into your country, and you complain about your privacy. Like I said, can't win!
I understand what you're saying, your point of view, I just think the fear is a little overboard... to the point of CWAZY!

No, using it at the border, especially for vehicles that cross the border, I don't have a problem with. No else is likely to, either. They can search the entire vehicle by going in it and ripping everything out. The law says they can do that. Using xrays to quickly scan the vehicle is a good thing at the border, because it speeds things up allowing CBP to concentrate on problems rather than wasting their time searching vehicles that present no problems at all.

At the border, people do not have an expectation of privacy, especially since by crossing the border they explicitly give up that right. It's when these vans are roaming around the streets far away from the border (like Kansas City or Pittsburgh) just looking for stuff, any stuff that they can find, that's what violates privacy.