The Costs and Benefits of Large Sleepers
- Thread starter ATeam
- Start date
On second thought, MAYBE a large sleeper can pay for itself. If realized savings on food and hotels are $5,000 a year (realistic numbers reported by some teams), and if the additional sleeper cost is amortized over say 10 years, is also $5,000 (probably a high figure since we are talking not about the full sleeper cost but the difference in cost between factory and custom), maybe there is a break-even point that can be reached.
To make that work, the team in question would need to be spending a lot of money at hotels and restaurants and significantly change those habits to make more use of the sleeper. But from what I read, some teams do exactly that.
I know one team now that is looking at their first large sleeper purchase. For many years they have driven factory-sleeper straight trucks. They spend $14,000 a year on hotels. A 30-year trucking veteran and friend of mine knows truckers that spend $20,000 a year on hotels. Streakn1 spent $5,000 a year on hotels. In 2005, while driving factory-sleeper trucks, we spent $3,320 on hotels.
In the last 12 months in our custom-sleeper truck, we spent zero on hotels while out on the road. We did take a luxury suite mini vacation in May while we were home, but we were home, not on the road. It was not a deductible business expense. If you want to include that, the cost was $875. Otherwise, our hotel costs are zero for the last 12 months. RV park lodging is less than $800.
Another non-quantifiable factor I did not mention above is the healthier eating that happens when you cook in the sleeper more and eat in restaurants less.
To make that work, the team in question would need to be spending a lot of money at hotels and restaurants and significantly change those habits to make more use of the sleeper. But from what I read, some teams do exactly that.
I know one team now that is looking at their first large sleeper purchase. For many years they have driven factory-sleeper straight trucks. They spend $14,000 a year on hotels. A 30-year trucking veteran and friend of mine knows truckers that spend $20,000 a year on hotels. Streakn1 spent $5,000 a year on hotels. In 2005, while driving factory-sleeper trucks, we spent $3,320 on hotels.
In the last 12 months in our custom-sleeper truck, we spent zero on hotels while out on the road. We did take a luxury suite mini vacation in May while we were home, but we were home, not on the road. It was not a deductible business expense. If you want to include that, the cost was $875. Otherwise, our hotel costs are zero for the last 12 months. RV park lodging is less than $800.
Another non-quantifiable factor I did not mention above is the healthier eating that happens when you cook in the sleeper more and eat in restaurants less.
There you go...Phils explaination of a big sleeper could be drafted into the other thread as to why some of us have elected to get Sprinters...
Greg I know you seem like a bare bones, common sense type guy...but Phils correct this time....There is a benefit to big sleepers.
Greg I know you seem like a bare bones, common sense type guy...but Phils correct this time....There is a benefit to big sleepers.
>CR revenue (gross to the truck, fuel surcharge factored out)
>is higher than it was when driving DR trucks with factory
>sleepers.
>
>WHY????????
I don't know for sure but the increased productivity we gain by having a large sleeper (see above) is a big part of it. We have less down time for rest than before. Our run count is higher. Also, most loads put in a DR unit are C loads anyway.
>is higher than it was when driving DR trucks with factory
>sleepers.
>
>WHY????????
I don't know for sure but the increased productivity we gain by having a large sleeper (see above) is a big part of it. We have less down time for rest than before. Our run count is higher. Also, most loads put in a DR unit are C loads anyway.
greg334
Veteran Expediter
"Greg I know you seem like a bare bones, common sense type guy...but Phils correct this time....There is a benefit to big sleepers."
OVM,
Yes I am frugal, no choice in the matter but what I am trying to say is simply that the larger sleeper does not increase your revenue.
I am not saying I don't like a larger sleeper, actually have final plans on another truck with a larger sleeper (a true 100" sleeper with a COE) but my cost for that just barely exceeds $15K, not $50K and I would have everything he has in his.
Not trying to be a smart a** about it, almost everything he has listed in his list except #6 can be done in my sleeper except for the shower - #6 is something that is not a reason to increase an expenditure (by the way did you figure your interest in the overall cost or did I miss it?)
I also can't help but point to the fact that with rates being reduced and many not seeing the revenue level like that did last year, justifying a outlay of $50k is not realistic but some are sold that it is. The payment that some of these people have monthly does not allow them to have the latitude to make other decisions that would help them succeed or improve their bottom line. With all of the doom and gloom predictions that Phil has made (not bashing, Phil's fan club, just pointing out facts), I seem to think that his position that things are slowing down faster and getting worst than we would like would actually cause some to think not to get a larger sleeper at this point but to save the money and be a little more frugal.
OVM,
Yes I am frugal, no choice in the matter but what I am trying to say is simply that the larger sleeper does not increase your revenue.
I am not saying I don't like a larger sleeper, actually have final plans on another truck with a larger sleeper (a true 100" sleeper with a COE) but my cost for that just barely exceeds $15K, not $50K and I would have everything he has in his.
Not trying to be a smart a** about it, almost everything he has listed in his list except #6 can be done in my sleeper except for the shower - #6 is something that is not a reason to increase an expenditure (by the way did you figure your interest in the overall cost or did I miss it?)
I also can't help but point to the fact that with rates being reduced and many not seeing the revenue level like that did last year, justifying a outlay of $50k is not realistic but some are sold that it is. The payment that some of these people have monthly does not allow them to have the latitude to make other decisions that would help them succeed or improve their bottom line. With all of the doom and gloom predictions that Phil has made (not bashing, Phil's fan club, just pointing out facts), I seem to think that his position that things are slowing down faster and getting worst than we would like would actually cause some to think not to get a larger sleeper at this point but to save the money and be a little more frugal.
Here are some additonal numbers to consider. I called my Volvo dealer this morning to get them. A new Volvo day cab costs about $99,000 now. A new Volvo 780 tractor (Volvo's biggest sleeper) costs about $123,000. Thus, the Volvo factory sleeper costs $24,000.
If you spent $75,000 on a custom sleeper, you would have a very fine sleeper indeed. The difference, then, between the factory sleeper and custom sleeper is $51,000.
But there is more to think about. The Volvo factory sleeper price does not include a generator. The custom sleeper price does. Generators cost from $7,000 to $9,000 for anything worth having. Let's call it $8,000 for purposes of discussion.
So, if you would have a generator on either the factory truck or custom truck, and that is the sensible choice today, the $51,000 custom sleeper price difference is reduced by $8,000 to $43,000.
The question then becomes, can $43,000 extra spent on a custom sleeper pay for itself over time? Given the information presented above, I believe it can.
Regarding the higher truck payments a big sleeper would entail, that is only true for people who buy more sleeper than they can afford. Larger down payments, or paying cash for the entire truck, reduces or eliminates truck payments. Good credit ratings and smart shopping for truck loans do too.
Buying a big sleeper does not have to mean having big truck payments. In fact, if buying a big sleeper means you will have truck payments that would be a stretch to meet, it would be better to keep driving fleet owner trucks until you can afford the big-sleeper truck. In other words, live within your means.
Affordability is also affected by people's larger financial picture. If you are trying to make a house payment, truck payment, credit card payments and pay for your kid's braces all at once, NO WAY should you spend big money on a truck of any kind. But if you have little debt or no debt, are controlling your expenses instead of having them control you, have enough reserves in the bank to cover six months of no income, and have an income history that shows you have a future in expediting, a big-sleeper truck is not an irrational choice.
If you spent $75,000 on a custom sleeper, you would have a very fine sleeper indeed. The difference, then, between the factory sleeper and custom sleeper is $51,000.
But there is more to think about. The Volvo factory sleeper price does not include a generator. The custom sleeper price does. Generators cost from $7,000 to $9,000 for anything worth having. Let's call it $8,000 for purposes of discussion.
So, if you would have a generator on either the factory truck or custom truck, and that is the sensible choice today, the $51,000 custom sleeper price difference is reduced by $8,000 to $43,000.
The question then becomes, can $43,000 extra spent on a custom sleeper pay for itself over time? Given the information presented above, I believe it can.
Regarding the higher truck payments a big sleeper would entail, that is only true for people who buy more sleeper than they can afford. Larger down payments, or paying cash for the entire truck, reduces or eliminates truck payments. Good credit ratings and smart shopping for truck loans do too.
Buying a big sleeper does not have to mean having big truck payments. In fact, if buying a big sleeper means you will have truck payments that would be a stretch to meet, it would be better to keep driving fleet owner trucks until you can afford the big-sleeper truck. In other words, live within your means.
Affordability is also affected by people's larger financial picture. If you are trying to make a house payment, truck payment, credit card payments and pay for your kid's braces all at once, NO WAY should you spend big money on a truck of any kind. But if you have little debt or no debt, are controlling your expenses instead of having them control you, have enough reserves in the bank to cover six months of no income, and have an income history that shows you have a future in expediting, a big-sleeper truck is not an irrational choice.
ATeam said "Affordability is also affected by people's larger financial picture. If you are trying to make a house payment, truck payment, credit card payments and pay for your kid's braces all at once, NO WAY should you spend big money on a truck of any kind. But if you have little debt or no debt, are controlling your expenses instead of having them control you, have enough reserves in the bank to cover six months of no income, and have an income history that shows you have a future in expediting, a big-sleeper truck is not an irrational choice."
Thats our situation Plus we put down a good sized down payment and finaced over 48 NOT 72 months with a monthly payment we can live with even if it slows down... and that kept the interest down. So overall cost is lower.
Thats our situation Plus we put down a good sized down payment and finaced over 48 NOT 72 months with a monthly payment we can live with even if it slows down... and that kept the interest down. So overall cost is lower.
I suspect with some careful shopping one could put together the big sleeper for much less than $75k and still have a very nice sleeper. It might not have quite as fancy surfaces etc. but would still accomplish the same task with a little less flash. I've window shopped the ARI website and put together a very nice 120" sleeper with generator for around $55k. When compared to around $32k for any of the factory top line sleepers with generator the bang for the buck isn't bad.
Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB
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Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
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Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB
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Leo what kind of generator are you talking? We are starting to really research this area better.
greg334
Veteran Expediter
It don't matter, Phil asked a question and then answered his own question, funny 
Well when someone can come up with a real good idea on how this investment actually makes you more competitive in this changing world, please tell us.
The funny thing is, I noticed that last time I ran into a couple who was running an apartment on wheels were very arrogant about their truck, I just said hello. I see that this is getting to be like the G5 club.
Well when someone can come up with a real good idea on how this investment actually makes you more competitive in this changing world, please tell us. The funny thing is, I noticed that last time I ran into a couple who was running an apartment on wheels were very arrogant about their truck, I just said hello. I see that this is getting to be like the G5 club.
We like the big sleepers as much as the next person. But, I don't see were one would be more competitive. We had had numerous ones and there are as many pros as there are cons. Maybe more cons when you factor extra weight, and lost frieght capacity. The last one may become more of a critical issue if frieght really slows down. Some areas require some "double dipping" so your not running at that .90 cent a mile listed in another post. Sometimes a larger box is required when doing that or decking and hauling a tractor load on a straight.
Davekc
owner
23 years
PantherII
EO moderator
Davekc
owner
23 years
PantherII
EO moderator
Every situation is somewhat unique, so it would be wise to consider your own situation rather than go by a blanket statement that large apartment style sleepers can pay for themselves. The main governing issue on sleeper size is the size of box one needs to turn a profit.
We have a large apartment style sleeper and surely do enjoy it, but we would most certainly have spec'd something smaller if we really needed a larger box to be profitable.
I don't need to see numbers all over the place to realize this... after all the purpose of business, any business, is to make money. With respect to trucking, it isn't to play house out on the road... we can play house at home just fine. :+
We have a large apartment style sleeper and surely do enjoy it, but we would most certainly have spec'd something smaller if we really needed a larger box to be profitable.
I don't need to see numbers all over the place to realize this... after all the purpose of business, any business, is to make money. With respect to trucking, it isn't to play house out on the road... we can play house at home just fine. :+
So far this thread has accomplished 2 things for me;
1) My brain hurts.
2) I now have about a dozen more questions I need to answer before I can tell myself "Yep that's what I need to buy"
Don't know if education or discussion (both?) was the starter for all this but it sure made us all think.
1) My brain hurts.
2) I now have about a dozen more questions I need to answer before I can tell myself "Yep that's what I need to buy"
Don't know if education or discussion (both?) was the starter for all this but it sure made us all think.
As far as I know the custom sleeper places use an Onan generator and Coleman hvac systems. Mine so far have been ProHeat, Willis and RigMaster. I want to check into the Cummins unit before making any final decisions on the next one.
Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB
OOIDA Life Member 677319, JOIN NOW
Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
EO Forum Moderator
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Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.
Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB
OOIDA Life Member 677319, JOIN NOW
Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
EO Forum Moderator
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Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.
Nice of you to ask. You are not the only one. The trouble with blogging is you let your readers down if you get behind. I am sorry about that.
The original blog concept was "You Learn Something New Every Day." As the blog shows, I really do. But writing about something new every day takes a lot of time and energy. And when we are running hard, the time is not always available. To relieve the "something new" pressure and make it easier to keep the daily blog current, I'm going to change the concept to something simpler like a daily blog. I plan to get the blog caught up when we are off the road and home for the Christmas holidays.
The original blog concept was "You Learn Something New Every Day." As the blog shows, I really do. But writing about something new every day takes a lot of time and energy. And when we are running hard, the time is not always available. To relieve the "something new" pressure and make it easier to keep the daily blog current, I'm going to change the concept to something simpler like a daily blog. I plan to get the blog caught up when we are off the road and home for the Christmas holidays.
arkjarhead
Veteran Expediter
Someone said something about people making smart aleck coments towards Phil. I'm not sure but I think some of it is joking around to a certain degree. Nevertheless Phil doesn't seem to let it bother him. That is why alot of times when I respond directly to Phil I say things like I'm not trying to be a smart arse, because I know I am lacking in the tact area sometimes. Some people I think are jealous of what Phil has because they want it and can't have it. I'm not saying who falls in which category because I don't truly know, but I think it's more of a friendly picking than anything.