The Costs and Benefits of Large Sleepers

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
Spec a new, class 8, day cab truck and note the price. Call that price "A."

Add a factory sleeper to it and note the price. Call that price "B."

Subtract A from B to get the cost of the factory sleeper. Call the factory sleeper cost "C."

Spec a large (100 inches or more), custom-built sleeper for the truck instead of a factory sleeper. Call that price "D."

Subtract C from D to determine the price difference between a factory sleeper and custom sleeper. Call the difference "E."

Note that the value of E will vary with the amount of money individuals spend on their sleepers.

Question: Are the benefits of a large, custom-built sleeper worth the additional cost (E)? Why or why not?
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Phil,
Maybe I am wrong in my thinking but creature comforts are not tools that can be justified outside of the use for indirect safety (indirect safety means that outside of the big screen TV, shower and other amenities, the use of a sleeper can be augmented by hotels and truck stops). What I mean is that a size of the sleeper has nothing to directly do with revenue generation and the size difference in the cubic feet lost to the larger sleeper in relation to the opportunity of freight being offered can't be offset with larger paying loads using smaller footprints, make sense?
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
After reading Greg's response for the 7th time, and finally getting all my brain pieces picked up put back in place, it makes sense. :+

The answer to the question of is the additional cost of "E" worth it or not is mostly a subjective one, rather than an objective one. A sleeper of some kind is a necessity (objective). The additional cost of "E" isn't a necessity, it's a luxury. Solely with regard to the profit and loss of the truck itself, then no, any kind of luxury would not be worth it, as any additional expense would merely take away from the truck's bottom line.

However, if you want it, then it's worth it (subjective). If the additional expense for the nicer sleeper would have otherwise been spent to maintain or upgrade a traditional residence that you're never at, then the justification for the nicer sleeper becomes much easier, as it's not money wasted on a truck, it's money spent on your domicile.

I drive a cargo van, a Sprinter. I could just as easily drive a much cheaper van, like a Ford E-350. Been there, done that, got the thong. I haul exactly the same amount of freight in the Sprinter as I did in the Ford. I could outfit the Sprinter to haul more freight, but then there's a tradeoff between creature comforts and revenue. However, the additional revenue that may be generated by the ability to haul more freight (an extra skid) isn't all that much of a difference, quite frankly, as most expedited freight is either two skids or less, or four skids or more.

It's very rare that a load is exactly three skids, and rarer still that I would even be in a position to take that three skid load. So trading the space of the slight possibility of a third skid for actual, comfortable living space, isn't something bothers me in the least. Add to that the fact that I don't spend money on a traditional residence and can therefor afford to make the van more of a focus on my domiciled expenses, then yes, it's worth it. Because I want it.


Slow and steady, even in expediting, wins the race - Aesop
 

Packmule

Expert Expediter
There is another side to the creature comfort issue that needs to be considered. A comfortable sleeper will produce a less fatigued driver allowing him to be more productive for a longer amount of time. A comfortable environment will allow much better rest which equates to a safe and alert driver. What price do we put on that?

True, if you crunch the numbers, you can stay many nights in motels for the price of a nice sleeper. but in this business where you may get a call at any time 24/7, sometimes a motel just doesn't make sense. To check in at 4PM and get a call at 8PM for a pickup NOW would be a waste of money.
Also most people feel more comfortable sleeping in a bed that they know who slept there last night and what was done in that bed.
Having your own on board toilet and bathing facilities really make it a comfortable and homey environment.

Being comfortable will lessen the desire to go home and allow you to stay out and be more productive, so in this light there is a good ROI (return on investment) in a large sleeper.

Also don't disallow the increased resale of a truck with a large well kept sleeper. You can bet there are people out there in the truck market that are thinking the same way you were when you decided on the large sleeper and are willing to pay for it.


Danny
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Comfort to stay out longer, less fatigue, lower daily expenses from self containment, much higher residual value... why, who in their right mind would trade a 30' cargo box for that? I agree those aren't quantifiable in absolute numbers but they are definitely factors in the overall decision.

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB
OOIDA Life Member 677319, JOIN NOW
Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
EO Forum Moderator
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greg334

Veteran Expediter
Thanks turtle, it was a PAIN to type that while trying to get the cooks started to cook when I wrote it.

Well everyone throws in the safety things, but no one has yet explained to me how you can make money with a sleeper.
 

Packmule

Expert Expediter
Greg,

I didn't realize that your trucks don't have sleepers! Huh? Guess you play H--- with HOS regs. But you are right, You can't make a dime in truckin if you're sleeping. That's right Cowboy up and keep them wheels turning, you can sleep when the money is made!

Greg if you think I'm being sarcastic....you're right!! For a very intelligent man that I think you are, your last post was really in left field.

Danny
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Danny,
I was being sarcastic. I have a 72" sleeper and happy with it but again I also see that my truck payment is a third of what others are with apartment on wheels and that my sleeper has nothing to do with the truck capability on hauling freight.
 

Packmule

Expert Expediter
Greg,

You are right from the freight hauling aspect, but for the long haul your comfort level really starts to come into play.
We all agree to be successful in this industry you must Stay out for Long periods. Consider the difference in a man in a 8X8 jail cell with a few creature comforts to a man in a 4X8 solitary confinement cell and see who loses his mind first. A few Creature comforts become very important when you add in the time factor. (Extreme Comparison noted)

I have met too many old timers that can't walk upright from spending too many hours behind the wheel and in a 40" sleeper trying to get much needed rest.

Excuse the over reaction to your post, and yes I feel that the average man can be quite comfortable in a 72" sleeper. But when you factor a wife or co driver in for weeks at a time, a larger sleeper does help keep the wheels turning.

Danny
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Danny, I understand what you are driving at, but like I said, the size of the sleeper has nothing to do directly with revenue generation and the size difference in the cubic feet lost to the larger sleeper in relation to the opportunity of freight being offered can't be offset with larger paying loads using smaller footprints.

The question, was "Are the benefits of a large, custom-built sleeper worth the additional cost (E)? Why or why not?'

From my point of view the answer is no when you look at the truck as a tool. The larger sleeper and associated increase costs can't be justified when truck stops and hotels are more competitive than the lost space while leveraging the truck for maximum revenue generation.

But again I also feel that Ego has a lot to do with it and justifying anything can be done when Ego drives it but that is off topic.

:+
 

Packmule

Expert Expediter
Greg,

From a strictly business revenue generating tool, you are correct in your statement. Somehow the trucks today have evolved into a multi purpose vehicle, somewhere between a work vehicle and a motor-home.
And I definitely agree with you about the ego thing. but if not who has the biggest truck, Sleeper, it would be, who drives the nicest car or lives in the nicest house in the nicest neighborhood. ego is ego is ego.

I will be the first to say that if I were to go back to a "D" unit I would look to purchase one with a nice sleeper because my comfort and my wife's is very important to me. I'm too much like the little kid who says if it's not fun, then I don't want to play anymore.
It seems the older I get the more it becomes more about me and my needs and wants. I've spent a lifetime providing for my children and others needs and have come to a point where it's time for the wife and I to do for ourselves.
I think a lot of the H/W teams out there are of the same mindset as us, we want to make a good income to have a nest egg for the not so distant future when we call it quits and retire. But we are NOT going to be miserable doing it.

So what I'm saying is, you and I Greg, are not looking at this in the same light. Bottom line Greg, You show the the best bottom line on the P&L, and I will be comfortable watching you do it.


Danny
 

jaminjim

Veteran Expediter
But Greg also says that this is just a stop gap measure, untill he is set up to do his next gig. So Greg would not want a larger sleeper, for one reason he would not be in it long enough to see the pay out spread out over several years.
 

Streakn1

Veteran Expediter
When we decided to sell our 70" sleeper for our combination 170" of sleeper area, we did so knowing it would in no way generate the additional revenue needed to offset the cost of "E". Although more affordable, when you stay with the factory sleeper "B" you are very limited on size and amenities. The more "affordable" fell extremely short of what we needed to make our final years in expediting enjoyable.

As a husband and wife team that stays out approximately two months at a time, staying motel rooms on weekends and eating truckstop food gets old REEEAL fast. Then to think of what may have been in the truckstop shower before you, well you can only hope they bleached the ##### out of it when they cleaned it!!!

So, if we do some cost analysis this is what I come up with:
Since we were averaging over $5000 a year in motel bills alone just to get out of our 70" sleeper on weekends, I see over two of the twelve truck payments per year we make for our super sleeper right there. Then for the less than $500/mo more we pay for our "house on wheels" over what many of our friends pay (some pay more than us) for their factory sleepers, just add up the cost of eating out each day, paying for 3-4 showers per week,etc that they pay each month. What we save by comparison by cooking daily in our own kitchen, showering in our own shower (water is free), etc has now tranfered to paying the additional $500+/-.

I'm sure we probably still end up spending a few bucks more per month than they do at times, but we do it knowing its for our comfort and sanity which happens to be as important as profitability to us! As for resale value on the larger sleeper, I find it interesting the increasing numbers of buyers in the market for them.

Since we pull a trailer I don't see that our large sleeper in any way effects our cargo capacity. Our box is what makes our revenue, not the sleeper! Our truck is designed and capable of pulling a 53' trailer if need be. We choose to haul a 48" reefer equiped with a lift gate. As for weight capacity, most expedite loads fit our capability and the few that don't, oh well, we'll be fine.

Our decision to buy a large sleeper was made from a business and comfort standpoint and has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with ego!
 

piper1

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
Maybe a bit off topic but, what if you bought that daycab, had a big bunk put on (like an ARI Legacy etc.) and then took the bunk off and put it on your next truck too? Spread the cost over 2 trucks (10 years maybe).
 

Streakn1

Veteran Expediter
That is an option if one chooses to do so, especially with the better built after-market sleepers like A.R.I and ICT. Some have done exactly that even though it cost (approx $5000-6000) to do so. If the truck is junk and the sleeper is worth the cost to move, the savings may well be worth the cost of replacing a perfectly good sleeper.
 

Moot

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
If it was all about making money then everybody would be driving a truck with a 30' box and a 36" sleeper.

Why is it that the Sprinter's ability to haul 3 skids is always bragged about, but the fact that it can haul less weight than a 1 ton is rarely mentioned? I can haul 3 4-ways turned sideways, so there!
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Not off topic at all I don't think and a very valid point. A well engineered, well made sleeper that's properly treated and cared for should easily last through two chassis and as you say would halve the cost. Another valid point is the sleeper size means nothing when pulling a trailer. Also valid is the non-quantifiable benefit that comfort provides. It may not directly deposit money in the bank but it may indirectly result in revenue generation. There is no absolute right or wrong answer. Everyone must make the decision they find correct for themselves.

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB
OOIDA Life Member 677319, JOIN NOW
Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
EO Forum Moderator
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Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.
 

arkjarhead

Veteran Expediter
I saw a comic cartoon that summed it up once. The husband and wife were sitting on a sofa in the sleeper and one said to the other so what if we can only haul two skids at least we are comfortable doing it. If someone is willing to pay the money for a big aftermarket sleeper then evidently at one point in time they thought it was worth it. I can see it from both sides. One side says it makes us more comfortable ,good point. The other side says I'm comfortable in my smaller sleeper and can haul loads you can't, good point. I talked to a couple at the Arkansas Truck Show that was leased onto Landstar Inway. We were talking and I asked them about weight. From what they said their aftermarket sleeper weighed they weren't that much heavier than a factory rig anyway.


Phil,
My dad just purchased a truck for his company and he told me day cabs cost more than sleeper trucks, or at least they did at International.
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
When assesing the benefits of large sleepers, quantifiable items include:

1. Reduced food costs of $500 to $1,200 a month (as reported in testimonials on the A.R.I. web site)

2. Reduced fuel costs because you do not have to go out of route to find showers and bathrooms (especially important to male/female and female teams. In many cases, you can stay at pickup and delivery docks when arriving at odd hours.

3. Reduced hotel costs (Diane and I have spent zero dollars on hotels on the road since we got into our big-sleeper truck. We used to spend more. RV parks are used but less frequently than hotels and at lower cost). (Streakn1 reports previous hotel costs of $5,000 a year).

4. Reduced deadhead miles because after a delivery it is easier to wait in a self-contained sleeper than having to drive to a truck stop or some other place where food, water, bathrooms, etc are available.

5. Reduced idling because of the generator that comes with the big sleeper. (Though, a generator-only truck will provide the same savings).

6. Increased tax deduction because of the big sleeper's higher price. But that is not to say one should buy a sleeper for the tax benefits. More money will go into your pocket by not spending money instead of spending and deducting it. Still, the tax deduction reduces the real amount of "E."

7. The above-mentioned ability to spread a quality sleeper's cost over 10 years by moving it between trucks.

8. Higher truck resale value.

There may be more quantifiable money savings that I am not thinking of at the moment. The specific amount of the savings will vary with the drivers and sleepers in question. But in every case, the numbers can be objectively determined, if the drivers have prior time on the road with factory sleepers.

I do not think a case could be made to cost-justify a big sleeper on items 1-8 above. 1-8 totaled will not exceed "E" over 3 years. It might over 10 years. I don't know.

Big-sleeper expenses must also be included in the analysis. One that comes to mind is higher insurance costs because of higher truck value. Maintenance costs are minimal in well-built sleepers from high-quality manufacturers. Another expense is the additional finance costs (truck loan interest) you will pay on a bigger sleeper if you finance your truck.

The desire for comfort has been well discussed above.

I wish to add a note about productivity. We drove factory-sleeper trucks for three years before getting into a bigger-sleeper/smaller-box truck. It is absolutely the case that we sleep far better now than before, especially when the co-driver is rolling down the road. That is huge, because after a long run (coast-to-coast) we do not need to take as much time off to rest up for the next one.

It is also the case that we take fewer breaks on the road than we used to. Before, we stopped more often to get out of the truck and/or rest up. Now we stop less often and seldom feel the need to get out of the truck.

The exact dollar amount of the increased productivity is hard to determine. While our run count is higher than before, other factors also affect run count, so a clear determination cannot be made by run count alone. Revenue is higher too, but it is impossible to say how much, if any, the sleeper contributed to it.

Finally, I would not put too much weight in the assumption that a larger box truck will haul more freight than a smaller box truck. While the laws of physics certainly say it CAN do so, there is nothing in expediting that says it will. If box capacity was what it was all about, we would all be driving tractors with 53' trailers. In our business, it is more about speed and accessorial services than space.

There is not an expediter out there that does not have a story to tell about his or her tiny loads (an envelope, a three pound box, a single gear the size of your hand, etc.) Such loads have been hauled in trucks of all sizes. No one turns loads down because they do not fill up a truck. And if loads fill the truck, we get paid nothing extra.

You could try for a cleaner analysis by using an all-things-being-equal scenario but that too is problematic. For example, Diane and I drove factory-sleeper DR units before getting into our CR unit with a custom sleeper. One would expect our revenue to go down because of the smaller CR box. We are pretty close to an all-things-being-equal story: same drivers, same credentials, same carrier, same equipment except for box size. Still, our CR revenue (gross to the truck, fuel surcharge factored out) is higher than it was when driving DR trucks with factory sleepers.

Another way of looking at it is, the fewer large loads we hauled, the more money we made. Increased box space does not necessarily equate to increased revenue. Thus, a bigger sleeper and the reduced box space required for it does not necessarily equate to reduced revenue.

Here again, other variables apply, so it is impossible to assign the difference to sleeper changes alone. Still, the assumption that a bigger box means more revenue is not supported by the facts.

One could use FedEx's fleet averages to make the case that there is a direct relationship between box size and revenue, but big-sleeper purchasers are not buying a fleet. They are buying one truck. The human variables of one driver or team compared against another, or compared against fleet averages are meaningless as the one-truck stats have no predictive value. There are a lot of straight truck drivers out there making more money than tractor trailer expediters.

When I started this topic, it was not my intention to make the case that bigger sleepers pay for themselves. I do not belive that they do. It was my intention to help prospective big-sleeper purchasers think through some of these issues. With the help of everyone who responded, that has been accomplished.

I'll close by sharing that when Diane and I spec'ed our truck, we considered buying what would have been a very nice, fully-equipped, White Glove capable truck off the lot. Instead, we bought the truck we wanted, which cost about $50,000 more (with much of that going into other extras, not just the sleeper). Given the 10 years we plan to keep the truck, that works out to $5,000 a year or $416 a month extra for the quantifiable and non-quantifiable benefits the big sleeper and other truck extras provide (extras like more lighting in the box, custom ladder on the liftgate, more rows of E-Track, custom-made front placard holders, etc.).

Having now driven sleepers of both types (factory and custom), we would not hesitate to spend that money again.
 
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