The changing face of the suburbs

Ragman

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
.Foreclosures helping change color of some suburb



SOUTHFIELD, Mich. (AP) -- Three years ago, Lamar Grace left Detroit for the suburb of Southfield. He got a good deal -- a 3,000-square-foot colonial that once was worth $220,000. In foreclosure, he paid $109,000.

The neighbors were not pleased.

"They don't want to live next door to ghetto folks," he says.

That his neighbors are black, like Grace, is immaterial. Many in the black middle class moved out of Detroit and settled in the northern suburbs years ago; now, due to foreclosures, it is easy to buy or rent houses on the cheap here. The result has been a new, poorer wave of arrivals from the city, and growing tensions between established residents and the newcomers.

"There's a way in which they look down on people moving in from Detroit into houses they bought for much lower prices," says Grace, a 39-year-old telephone company analyst. "I understand you want to keep out the riffraff, but it's not my fault you paid $250,000 and I paid a buck."

The neighbors say there's more to it than that. People like John Clanton, a retired auto worker, say the new arrivals have brought behavior more common in the inner city -- increased trash, adults and children on the streets at all times of the night, a disregard for others' property.

"During the summer months, I sat in the garage and at 3 o'clock in the morning you see them walking up and the down the streets on their cell phones talking," Clanton says. "They pull up (in cars) in the middle of the street, and they'll hold a conversation. You can't get in your driveway. You blow the horn and they look back at you and keep on talking. That's all Detroit."

The tensions have not gone unnoticed by local officials.

"I've got people of color who don't want people of color to move into the city," says Southfield Police Chief Joseph Thomas, who is himself black. "It's not a black-white thing. This is a black-black thing. My six-figure blacks are very concerned about multiple-family, economically depressed people moving into rental homes and apartments, bringing in their bad behaviors."

For example, "They still think it's OK to play basketball at 3 o'clock in the morning; it's OK to play football in the streets when there's a car coming; it's OK to walk down the streets three abreast. That's unacceptable in this city."

Thomas has seen the desperation of the new arrivals. His officers, handling complaints, have found two or more families living in a single house, pooling their money for rent. They have "no food in the refrigerator and no furniture," Thomas says. "They can't afford the food. They can't afford the furniture." But they were eager to flee the gunfire of their old neighborhoods in Detroit.

The foreclosure crisis made it possible.

"We had a large number of people who have purchased homes from 2005 on, where the banks were very generous with their credit and they've allowed for people without documentation and income verification to borrow 95 to 100 percent of home values," Southfield Treasurer Irv Lowenberg says. "Many purchased homes when they had two jobs in the household and one of the jobs was lost.

"As values began dropping, people were looking around and saying 'Why should I stay and pay my mortgage when other people aren't?' They decided to hand the keys back to the bank."

Many of the foreclosed upon Southfield homes were going for $40,000 to $60,000. The median home value dropped from more than $190,000 to below $130,000 over the same period, according to Census figures.

With so many empty houses available, rents also dipped by hundreds of dollars. Renters increased from about 13,100 in 2006 to 15,400 in 2009.

The lure of low prices to Detroiters was obvious -- as was the likelihood that their arrival would not be without issues.

"Blacks, like all Americans, want good schools and a safe community, and they can find that in the suburbs," says Richard Schragger, who teaches local government and urban law at the University of Virginia.

Now, suburbs closest to big cities are "bedeviled" by the same problems that helped spur urban flight decades ago, Schragger adds. "And you're seeing further flight out. Rising crime levels, some rising levels of disorder."

These were the things that prompted Richard Twiggs to leave Detroit 23 years ago for the safety, quiet and peace of mind Southfield offered.

"The reason suburbs are the way they are is because a certain element can't afford to live in your community," adds Twiggs, a 54-year-old printer. "If you have $300,000, $400,000, $500,000 homes you're relatively secure in the fact that (the homeowners) are people who can afford it.

"But when you have this crash, people who normally couldn't afford to live in Southfield are moving in. When you have a house for $9,900 on the corner over there -- that just destroys my property."

The pride that comes with home ownership and a large financial investment in the property is missing, says Clanton, who lives across the street from Twiggs on Stahelin, about a half-mile north of Detroit. Back yards are deep and mostly tree-shaded. Sidewalks are few.

"I treasure what I bought," Clanton says. "I want to keep it, but I don't need somebody to come in and throw their garbage on mine. Why would they come and make our lives miserable because they don't care?"

Though they acknowledge they would lose money by selling their current homes, Clanton and Twiggs are contemplating moving further north.

Sheryll Cashin, who teaches constitutional law and race and American law at Georgetown University, says it would be a shame if black flight from the city set off black flight from the near suburbs.

Some blacks just don't want to live near other blacks, she says: "There is classism within the black community. The foreclosure crisis may be accelerating it." But she says middle-class blacks, like middle-class whites, are also put off by behavior of impoverished blacks who "have developed their own culture, one that is very different from mainstream America."

Those who contemplate fleeing have fallen into what Cashin calls the "black middle-class dilemma."

"You have a choice of whether you are willing to be around your people or go 180 degrees in the other direction," she says. "To the higher income black people, if you don't want to love and help your lower-income black brethren, why would you expect white people to? If you can't do it, no one in society can do it. You can try to flee or you can be part of the solution."

Southfield officials say one solution to changing neighborhoods is blight enforcement, other ordinances and costly fines. The idea, said the police chief, Thomas, is not to chase people away, but to help them assimilate.

Soon after Grace, the telephone company analyst, moved into his house, he was cited for parking a small trailer on the property and storing interior doors outside. These are things that would have drawn little notice in Detroit amid the crime and failing schools, he said.

He paid $400 in fines, got rid of the doors and put the trailer in paid storage.

Eugene Williams found a foreclosure steal in one of Southfield's many well-kempt and stable neighborhoods. Williams, like Grace, wanted to get away from Detroit.

"The kids are running around without any control," says Williams, a 56-year-old auto plant worker. "They walk down the middle of the street and block traffic. There was gunfire at night. It was a common thing to hear gunfire."

But the transition to life in the suburbs hasn't been easy. As he was making improvements indoors, Southfield ordinance officials were writing citations outside. He was fined $200 for noxious weeds because the grass was too high and dandelions covered much of the front lawn.

"It wouldn't happen in Detroit," he says. "Your property is pretty much your property. I think, here, they are going a little overboard."
 

The Enemy

Veteran Expediter
Been happening here in our neighborhood for a while. Last summer I got my life threatened buy a 15 yo kid on a bike, that was out in the middle of the street along with the 3 teen girls that live across the street. I all started when they wouldn't move so my brother could get out of the driveway to get to work.

Not only that but, increased littering, loud music every night, 15-20 cars coming and going each night, Gang tags are starting to appear, plus home b & e and car break ins are on the increase. Finally last summer after alot of lobbying, the Police department has finally stepped up and increased patrol, and started ticketing folk who are walking 4-5 abreast down the middle of the street.

I don't have a bone to pick with people of different races. But when it strongly affects me and my family's livelihood, I will do everything in my power to change that and protect our property.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
If you get your life threatend you need to file charges with the police. Threats like that should not be taken lightly. The gangs need to be run out. Maybe it is time for all law abiding citizens to sit out on their porches at night, armed if need be, and take back the neighborhood. Gangs need to be run out. If the cops won't or can't do it, we should. :mad:
 

The Enemy

Veteran Expediter
The police were called, but unfortunately, as soon as the 15yo and his friend saw the cops come down the street, they took off on their bikes into Detroit and disappeared before the police chased them down.

Joe I completely agree with you, and we are working on protecting ourselves. After 20 years of living here I will not let some hoodlums come in and run us out.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
The police were called, but unfortunately, as soon as the 15yo and his friend saw the cops come down the street, they took off on their bikes into Detroit and disappeared before the police chased them down.

Joe I completely agree with you, and we are working on protecting ourselves. After 20 years of living here I will not let some hoodlums come in and run us out.


Good for you.

OK People, here is how it works. When the law abiding citizens need to convince the government to clean up the streets by getting rid of the gangs. Then we can get our neighborhoods back. IF the law abiding citizens are NOT able to get the government to clean up the rifraf we then have every RIGHT to take that job on ourselves. No one should have to live in fear of gangs. Gangs can ONLY prey on the weak, just as bullies do. If we become stronger than the gangs they will leave for easier pickings. Stand up to them now or they will control your lives.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Yea right layout get the cops involved and see what happens.

1 - this has been happening for the past 25 years. Southfield, Warren, Oak Park and other communities have been dealing with the same issues with the same type of people and there is no way of improving it. pretty much if it is about the movement from Detroit to the 'burbs that happened from the economic conditions we have today, it is like saying that Ford built the Mercury.

2 - this is a really poor example of the changing face of suburbs, try Sterling Heights and the upper east side like Roseville - those areas are a lot better examples and really remove the race issue from the context because IT isn't about blacks coming out of Detroit why this has happened.

3 - renters don't care. For the past 8 years outside of my nextdoor neighbor, most of the renters who passed through the area have been typical trailer park trash and the blacks who have bought and moved in cleaned up the area a bit and seem to be doing well enough.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Yea right layout get the cops involved and see what happens.

1 - this has been happening for the past 25 years. Southfield, Warren, Oak Park and other communities have been dealing with the same issues with the same type of people and there is no way of improving it. pretty much if it is about the movement from Detroit to the 'burbs that happened from the economic conditions we have today, it is like saying that Ford built the Mercury.

2 - this is a really poor example of the changing face of suburbs, try Sterling Heights and the upper east side like Roseville - those areas are a lot better examples and really remove the race issue from the context because IT isn't about blacks coming out of Detroit why this has happened.

3 - renters don't care. For the past 8 years outside of my nextdoor neighbor, most of the renters who passed through the area have been typical trailer park trash and the blacks who have bought and moved in cleaned up the area a bit and seem to be doing well enough.

I don't agree, there is always a way to improve things. There is NO reason to just accept things as they are. I KNOW that the cops and the government either don't care OR are involved with the gangs at some level.

Race has nothing to do with it. Just as poverty does NOT cause crime. There are just FAR too many poor people who live law abiding lives. There are FAR too many poor people who are CLEAN despite being poor. Dirty people and slummy housing is the result of laziness for the most part.

Ownership often leads to better neighbor hoods, but not always. Many Detroit neighbors hoods nosed dived even when the homes were owned. I watched it when I was growing up.

The FIRST step is taking back the streets. Don't sit inside watching TV. Sit out own your porch. Criminals cannot function if watched all the time. Call the cops for EVERYTHING that disrupts the peace and stop excusing crime and criminals.

Most people, even poor people, would prefer to live a normal, quiet, crime free life. Band together and it WILL happen.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Apparently you never had to deal with gangs in your neighborhood, it isn't as simple as calling the cops. Sometimes it is the worst thing to do other times the cops can't do anything about it. Neighborhood power matters in these cases, like what happened in Detroit and it never made the news, the neighborhood got tired of all kinds of crap, the cops didn't do anything to help them so they did it for themselves and now the neighborhood is better. The cops and everyone else haven't said a word about their actions and won't. Some call this vigilantism but I have yet to understand where the cops are sanctioned in the constitution.

Well here is a point of view by many - actually in many context of these discussions, race has everything to do with it and here is why ...

The really sad thing has been taking people who are capable and not dumb, using their emotion and their ethnic background to keep them slaves. If you look at how the migration took place, how a lot of people of any color have been conditioned (and still being conditioned) to think and act a certain way that keeps them down far below their potential, than you can understand why many have failed in the ownership of homes and property. Even some of the Civil Rights organizations have reconginized that a great number of "home owners DO NOT understand the responsibility of home ownership and let their properties go unattended and in disrepair" which if you look around, is one reason why people look at "blighted" (God do I hate that word) properties and demand cleaning it up or fine people to try to force them to clean it up without actually teaching people of any color how to actually take pride in themselves or their property - by the way this is one really important thing about our entire system.

BUT ...

Back to the southfield thing in the OP.

You can make a lot of this a race issue, but it isn't, it is an attitude thing, This region lacks a realistic attitude on a lot of levels, mainly because this is a UNION region, which means that people expect things for nothing and there is a serious lack of personal responsibility - no matter what race.
 
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layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
As I said, when the PEOPLE get fed up enough they will fix it. Anything worth doing is worth doing yourself.

I have ALWAYS said that city people LIKE filth, crime, gangs and corruption. They must, they ALLOW it to go on. If they did not like it, they would, and could, stop it.

Call it anything you like, people have the power and it is THEIR right to use it.

I know how to clean up gangs. Too bad I was not home when I got robbed. That would have been the last robbery those crack heads would have pulled and we would not be paying for their room and board.
 

Ragman

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
You can make a lot of this a race issue, but it isn't, it is an attitude thing, This region lacks a realistic attitude on a lot of levels, mainly because this is a UNION region, which means that people expect things for nothing and there is a serious lack of personal responsibility - no matter what race.

I think that is exactly the point of the article. This is NOT a race issue.
 

chefdennis

Veteran Expediter
It is not about racism when the blacks don't want the blacks there..it is about people...and yes Joe, it is ashame that you were there to 'take care" of the situation when you were robbed...your inplied actions would have made an impresson you can bet that while it might not have totally stopped t from happening again, it certainly would have made those involved think twice...a "target rich" enviroment can service as as very good deterent....
 

Jason2

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
Layout,i know how you feel.but if you had taken care of the problem you would be in jail yourself right now.i hate to see honest people put in jail for things that the police are sopposed to be doing.down here when you take care of problems that the officials are sopposed to you go to jail and they go free.
 

Jason2

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
Me and my son get out and shoot alot, i think people around here knows what would happen.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Layout,i know how you feel.but if you had taken care of the problem you would be in jail yourself right now.i hate to see honest people put in jail for things that the police are sopposed to be doing.down here when you take care of problems that the officials are sopposed to you go to jail and they go free.

In Michigan we are NOT required to retreat once inside our homes. We have a RIGHT to defend ourselves. I would NOT shoot if the scumbag was headed out as long as he/she/it was empty handed. IF they were on the way in, they would be toast. Same if they had something of mine. There is NO right for home invasion or robbery.
 

AMonger

Veteran Expediter
In Michigan we are NOT required to retreat once inside our homes. We have a RIGHT to defend ourselves. I would NOT shoot if the scumbag was headed out as long as he/she/it was empty handed. IF they were on the way in, they would be toast. Same if they had something of mine. There is NO right for home invasion or robbery.
I don't know what your opinions are on Biblical morality or the general equity portions of the OT, but the OT says you're not morally culpable if you kill an intruder in your home at night. But it does specify "at night."
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I don't know what your opinions are on Biblical morality or the general equity portions of the OT, but the OT says you're not morally culpable if you kill an intruder in your home at night. But it does specify "at night."


Intruders and the control there of fall under the "Ceasars" section.
 
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