TA fuel sucks?

EASYTRADER

Expert Expediter
I have noticed whenever I buy fuel at TA my truck sounds terrible. Knocking valvex louder turbo, more vibration.

These symptoms disappear when I run Pilot fuel.

Has anyone else noticed this pn there truck or is it a mental issue with me.
 

jjoerger

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
US Army
I have that problem when I run pilot fuel.
Mine runs best on TA and Flying J.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
I have noticed whenever I buy fuel at TA my truck sounds terrible. Knocking valvex louder turbo, more vibration.

These symptoms disappear when I run Pilot fuel.

Has anyone else noticed this pn there truck or is it a mental issue with me.

How's the performance? any loss of power or MPG's ?
 

nightcreacher

Veteran Expediter
I run TA fuel,and, except in the states that the TA uses bio fuel,my truck gets its best fuel mileage.I have no trouble with power losses either.Besides with the big discount,how can you afford to go anywhere else.
 

aileron

Expert Expediter
Mine runs the same on any fuel. Haven't seen a difference so far between brands. I tend to buy fuel at TA because of the discount.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
After exhaustive research in talking with many drivers in person, online and on the CB, I have come to the following conclusions.
TA fuel sux.
Pilot fuel sux.
Petro fuel sux.
Flying J fuel sux.
Wilco fuel sux.
Road Ranger fuel sux.
Sapp Bros. fuel sux.
They all sux.
 

guido4475

Not a Member
Is this an all the time problem, or at just certain locations?I am thinking A cetane problem, or lack of it.Once in awile mine will do that, but some power service will clear that up also.I love Wilco fuel, it seems to run the best, and they have the highest cetane rating out of anybody I have found, at 45.Everybody else has been at 40 or less.
 

comet_4298

Seasoned Expediter
Is this an all the time problem, or at just certain locations?I am thinking A cetane problem, or lack of it.Once in awile mine will do that, but some power service will clear that up also.I love Wilco fuel, it seems to run the best, and they have the highest cetane rating out of anybody I have found, at 45.Everybody else has been at 40 or less.
I found the same.....Wilco fuel has a higher cetane......mine tractor and sprinter does pull better and a little more mpg,but you usally pay a little extra.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
In America, most states adopt ASTM D975 as their diesel fuel standard and the minimum cetane number is set at 40, plus or minus 2 (Flying J cough, cough), with typical values in the 42-45 range. California CARB diesel is minimum 50 cetane.

Gasoline is an engineered product, so that octane will be very consistent across brands and in all states. If it says 87 octane, it's 87 octane.

Diesel is a distilled product by "fractional distillation" (separating out different liquids by their unique boiling points at a given atmospheric pressure) and the cetane level can and does vary between brands and even batches from the refinery. Different batches are mixed together, anyway, to achieve a desired cetane. When distilled fractionally, diesel fuel will have between 8-21 carbon atoms per molecule, the more carbon the less cetane. Flying J refines their own and tends to refine and mix it at the minimum standards, so their diesel will often be less than 40, but is generally between 38-42. THe good stuff they save for CARB diesel. Some of their locations are (or soon to be were) co-owned by Conoco and get their diesel from a variety of refineries.

By and large, all truck stops by their diesel on the open market by contract and you can find TA, Wilco and Pilot, for example, all getting the same diesel from the same source on the same day at times. Mostly it's regional, where local fuel stops get their fuel from a local refinery. Most places in and around Michigan get theirs from refineries in Sarnia and Detroit, for example.

Most refineries will refine and sell two types of diesel, standard which is generally 42-45, and premium which is 46 and up.

If you ever see cetane numbers on fuel pumps, which is rare, it's not the actual cetane number, but the Cetane Index, which is an educated guestimate based on the density of the fuel and on recovery temperatures. Getting an exact cetane number is not easy, and requires laboratory testing conditions for combustion pressure and combustion delay. Most states (and all refineries) periodically test samples from the pump for the exact cetane number. The results are out there, but not always easy to get at.

Wilco and TA tend to be the most consistent at all locations for higher cetane, with Petro and Pilot a close second. Flying J tends to be consistent, as well, only they tend to be consistent on the low end (which is why they tend to have cheaper fuel, at least until the Pilot-Flying J merger started taking shape, where now an awful lot of Flying J's have the same fuel pricing as the Pilot across the street, and if the FTC asks me my opinion of what might happen to pricing controls if the merger goes through, neither the Pilot nor Flying J will like what I have to say).
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
Mine runs the same on any fuel. Haven't seen a difference so far between brands. I tend to buy fuel at TA because of the discount.

Same here, except I'll add that the truck runs the same on any major-brand fuel. We don't buy fuel from cut rate corner stores.

As far as mileage differences between brands, it's impossible to tell. Brand X may be an inferior fuel for whatever reason but if you buy it and drive on a calm day on flat terrain, it will do better than the very best fuel in the mountains or driving into a headwind. Outside temperature seems to make a difference. Tire inflation makes a difference. Tire wear makes a difference. The state of tune of the truck engine this month compared to six months from now makes a difference. The mood of the driver today and how that translates into right foot pedal action makes a difference. There are too many variables to say with certainty that your on-road "research" proves that one fuel is better than another.

Even with engine noise changes, what you hear when you are tired will be different than what you hear when you are wide awake. What you hear at sea level will be different than what you hear as you climb a mountain before your ears pop. Because sound waves are affected by objects, what you hear with the sun visor down may be different than what you hear with it up. What you hear when you are listening for something in particular will be different than what you hear when you are not consciously listening for anything at all.

You ask a very insightful question when you say, "Has anyone else noticed this pn there truck or is it a mental issue with me." Human beings tend to hear what they want to hear. You are wise to be mindful of that trait.
 
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Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
I wonder which refineries are putting out the cut rate fuel for the corner stores to buy?
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
I wonder which refineries are putting out the cut rate fuel for the corner stores to buy?

As I understand it, they all do, but not intentionally. Fuel goes bad for a variety of reasons; made bad, aged bad, stored bad, whatever. I may be mistaking trucker talk for facts here but from what I have heard, the cut-rate, off-brand stores that sell fuel significantly below the market price buy low quality fuel at a low price. Be it true or not, the talk has been enough for Diane and I to steer clear of off-brand, deep-discount fuel outlets when we see them.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
As I understand it, they all do, but not intentionally. Fuel goes bad for a variety of reasons; made bad, aged bad, stored bad, whatever. I may be mistaking trucker talk for facts here but from what I have heard, the cut-rate, off-brand stores that sell fuel significantly below the market price buy low quality fuel at a low price. Be it true or not, the talk has been enough for Diane and I to steer clear of off-brand, deep-discount fuel outlets when we see them.

Intentionally?

Never worked around a refinery Phil?

Nothing seems to be done without an intent.

The science is not flexible but the handling is but again fuel doesn't "go bad". The additives do, the fuel can get contaminated but not "go bad".

A lot of blending facilities will blend on demand and use cheaper additives for fuel, both gas and diesel to sell to the "cut rate" outlets but again some "cut rate" outlets may also have good fuel and sell with a smaller margin. The BP where I fuel my pickup at does exactly that, they get quality fuel from one blender and sell it at a smaller margin (lower price) because they have a consistent group of customers who they can depend on. A few times when they were slow, they even lowered their price to near cost to move the fuel to prevent adding anti-algae additives which effect the quality.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
When you see an Exxon tanker go to an Exxon gas station to deliver fuel, and then leave and go to Bubba's Cheap Fuel and put the same fuel in those tanks, you'll understand.

When you go to a refinery and see two Exxon, four Shell, three Texaco and 17 no-name fuel tankers all lined up to the filled with the same fuel, you'll understand.

Fuel is tested before it leaves the refinery and other distribution points. Any distributor which knowingly distributes bad fuel is subject to a whole host of legal problems, not the least of which is real, actual consequential damages that may result from knowingly selling or distributing bad fuel.

At the retail level, the problem with cut-rate fuel stations isn't cut-rate fuel, but lower volume at some of those places which can allow stored fuel to go bad over time. But as much as that is the conventional wisdom, especially with truckers, even that's a rarity, as lower volume stations have smaller storage tanks or they receive smaller shipments of fuel in the first place. Fuel, diesel especially, will go bad over time. But it's not like it's gonna happen in a week or two.

I'm friends with the owner of a Shell distributor in the town in which I live, as well as friends with the owner of an independent gas station/convenience store who gets his fuel from several distributors. I also see more than just BP fuels getting delivered to the BP quasi-truck stop in town (some of you may be familiar with that location, on 641 just north of the town in my Avatar). Much comes in no-name tankers.

EPA laws mandate that fuel tanks be maintained and cleaned regularly (depending mostly on how many gallons per month flow in and out of the tanks). There are several companies that do tank cleaning, the ones I see most are US Tank Alliance and Optic Sweep, where the process removes water, sludge, sediment, bacteria and contaminated fuel. If the above isn't removed regularly, then the station is subject to all kinds of legalities (as the TA can attest to with it's Riverside County locations), not the least of which is failure to store incompatible wastes in separate containers, and failure to remove accumulated liquid or material from storage containment system.

So you can get bad fuel in all kinds of stations, large or small, doesn't matter.

The biggest reason for lower fuel prices at off-brand locations is them not having to pay the royalties for the use of the brand name.
 
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