Surprise surprise in Iraq

Aviator

Expert Expediter
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/iraq/article1530762.ece

From The Sunday Times
March 18, 2007
Iraqis: life is getting better
Marie Colvin

MOST Iraqis believe life is better for them now than it was under Saddam Hussein, according to a British opinion poll published today.

The survey of more than 5,000 Iraqis found the majority optimistic despite their suffering in sectarian violence since the American-led invasion four years ago this week.

One in four Iraqis has had a family member murdered, says the poll by Opinion Research Business. In Baghdad, the capital, one in four has had a relative kidnapped and one in three said members of their family had fled abroad. But when asked whether they preferred life under Saddam, the dictator who was executed last December, or under Nouri al-Maliki, the prime minister, most replied that things were better for them today.

Only 27% think there is a civil war in Iraq, compared with 61% who do not, according to the survey carried out last month.

By a majority of two to one, Iraqis believe military operations now under way will disarm all militias. More than half say security will improve after a withdrawal of multinational forces.

Margaret Beckett, the foreign secretary, said the findings pointed to progress. “There is no widespread violence in the four southern provinces and the fact that the picture is more complex than the stereotype usually portrayed is reflected in today’s poll,†she said.
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Don't tell Hilary or Teddy or Obama. They can't be bothered with the truth or facts. There's no time for that.

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA Life Member 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
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Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.
 

tallcal101

Veteran Expediter
Anybody ask the 50,000 dead Iragi's?(Women and children included)
I know,colateral damage.Don't ask W or Condi,they hate that question.Oops,guess I'm offending the head in the sand bunch again.Sorry.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Tallcal,

Did you think at anytime to ask the six hundred thousand that Saddam killed if it is worth our effort to get rid of him?

Did you ever think that the 3000 or so deaths that we have experienced to stop the killing that the people of Iraq have been facing are worth saving the future for them?

Do you actually know what went on there under Saddam and his sons? Do you actually know anyone who has lived in that type of fear?

If you don’t think it has been worth the fight, then was it really worth the losses that we endured in WW2 fighting the poor misunderstood Japanese who were only defending their country?

I won’t try to explain to you about the Iraqi culture, the history of Iraq or the UN mandate. I won’t suggest again that you go over there to see for yourself or at least meet an Iraqi who has been there to see what improvements have been made in their country. I know you won’t even make the attempt.

I won’t go into the fact that the liberals just don’t get the whole military action thing or that it unfortunately takes lives to do things to protect us and others who depend on us.

I won’t talk about the parallels to Vietnam caused by the same people in our government who have no ethics or Integrity. These same people who promised such things as a complete pull out of the troops, no earmarks and a bunch of other lies to get elected.

You know it is very sad that some say they support the troops but not the mission or the leadership of the troops. Having no confidence in a positive outcome or the confidence in the troops to do the work needed will cause a negative outcome for all of us, the troops, us and the Iraqis. By buying into failure, many think that there is no hope and no reason to be there even though they do not take it upon themselves to find out the truth.

Without 100% backing, the mission will be longer for the all involved, the job will be harder and the burden more than should be.

Just tell the six hundred thousand how have died under a pseudo Stalin that it was not worth the fight.
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
How many times that did Saddam kill? How many times more than that would he have killed had he been left alone for the remainder of his years? How many times worse than Saddam were his sons? How many would they have killed in addition to those they already killed? The lives lost are a sad fact although as mentioned almost all were killed by their own people. It's heads in the sand alright. It's just attributed to the wrong group.

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA Life Member 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
----------
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.
 

Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
I'm sorry, but asking Tallcal to view something objectively would be like asking the Pope to take a leak on his rosary. It ain't gonna happen.

-Vampire Super Slooth Trucker!!!
 

tallcal101

Veteran Expediter
I love you guys,your the best!I'm about to hang it up again.You can't have it both ways fellows.
You either hate all Iranians and anyone else who loves Allah,or you don't.Now you have sympathy for all that died at Saddams hands,but not the ones who died at the hands of the American invaders.Dead is dead boys.Whats the difference?They are dead,and most did nothing but wake up one morning to bombs dropping from American planes."Mission Accomplished".Remeber?
Keep up the killing machine,it's all about the body counts.Thats what America under W is all about.Shock and Ahh.Shock and Sh** is more like it.
I think I will rest for a while and enjoy the on going charade that you so hoplessly defend.I'm tired.
TC out.
 

RichM

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
Hey Tall don't opt out.We need you here for opposing views. While I and others don't always agree with ,you your input is read by all.
 

riverrat2000

Seasoned Expediter
so tallcal, you would rather wait untill the start operations on our soil before you do something oops we have already forgot about 9/11 didn't we and the fact that they have already started operations, what do you have to say to the thousands dead from that, head in the sand? do you really think that they wouldn't do even worse here if they had the chance, history has shown that you cannot run from people like that if we had run in the last century we would be speaking german or japanese right now and personally I do nor want to learn arabic. The terrorists chose iraq as the battleground, they win there they have a base of operations in which to move their form of hatered to the rest of the world, if that happens and your neighbor gets killed by one of these idots what do you tell their family, this is a war that is like no other, we have been attached a number of times and we d###n well better be thankful that the war is being fought in bagdad and not in new york,atlanta,chicago las vegas or anywhere else on our soil. As far a saddam is concerned he chose to pick a fight with the U.S and he got what he ask for, the terrorists used it as an excuse to start a battle in iraq not us so lets finish it there and not over here
 

tallcal101

Veteran Expediter
As my daughter so often says,"What ever".
I hate it when she says that, but I'm really out of steam regarding current events right now.I wish you all well for the time being, and I mean that.And don't blame my drivers for my opinions if you run into them.Please be safe,regardles of which side of the pond your on.
 

ACE

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
The United States of America are the good guys in the World.
I believe that what ever decisions we make to protect ourselves from actual or perceived threats from foreign persons or Govt. are justified.

All casualties of Foreign persons are acceptable to further or interests.

We should try to use honey to hopefuly get them to see our way but if that does not work then the hammer must be used to destroy them totaly and then rebuild them with people who will want to have us as friend rather than an enemy.

They may worship whom ever they want as long as they do not preach and then act on the destruction of Western Culture and our way of life.
 

letzrockexpress

Veteran Expediter
What ACE says is frightening to say the least. What is scarier than that is that I know several people who feel the same way. What troubles me the most is that I truly feel that DIk Cheney is one of them and is continually looking for ways to further such an ideal.
 

Jayman

Expert Expediter
This is what I would have said. (If I was ACE)

The United States of America are the good guys in the World. (Most of the time)I believe that most of the decisions we make to protect ourselves from actual or perceived threats from foreign persons or Govt. are justified.

All casualties of Foreign persons who are trying to harm us is unfortunate, but we cant always talk somebody out of plotting against us.

We should try to use honey to hopefuly get them to stop trying to harm us, but if that does not work then we must use the minimum force necessary to thwart their efforts. Then encourage their people to replace the current regime with people who will want to have us as friend rather than an enemy.

They may worship whom ever they want as long as they do not preach and then act on the destruction of Western Culture and our way of life.
 

PJ

Expert Expediter
As a quiet bystander that normally sits back and reads through most of the threads on EO I felt compelled to comment.
I am in no way a history buff, nor do I claim to know everything going on in the world.
I have done some international traveling and have seen some of the poverty in the world and have seen how others live. This makes me appreciate what we have here in the USA much more.
I guess I feel that we need to put us first, we have tried to appease everyone else by doing things their way, walking on egg shells and trying not to step on someones toes and such.
If the bombs were not dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki I wonder how many of us would not be here...and if I get a "YIKES" for saying I am grateful they dropped them, then so be it.
I wonder how many people feel the same way but hesitate to say so because of what others may think...
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Until 9/11 most Americans didn't realize the damage and death that war creates...nearly all have passed into history from Pearl Harbor now they knew. The U.S and Canada have been very fortunate not to have a modern day conflict on thier soils.

When some European countries objected to U.S. plans to enter Iraq. All of a sudden thier was an upheavel of anti=europe sentiment. And even when Canada didn't join in Iraq there were comments of "enemies of the north"

Personally I would like to see the U.S. stay home more. I see a very weak inside U.S. unemployment poverty...Lets concentrate on the war on drugs! Drugs will destroy this nation before the terroristd will.

Why is it so important to have a strong military? To the point that the infrasturcture of the common citzen is suffering.

If Iraq is so important to the east.. Where's the Arab League of Nations?
Why don't they have forces there instead of the U.S and Britian? You'd think they'd have a better reason for peace then we would to stabilize the area.
I say get out and let Arabs police Arabs a multinational Arab force.
If they failed there'd be one big civil war and they'd all pay a price for standing by and doing nothing.
To all Iraqs I say..HEY We got rid of Saddam since yous didn't have the nachos to lift a finger to revolt Now heres your country YOU rebuild it!!
 

Jayman

Expert Expediter
"Why is it so important to have a strong military? To the point that the infrasturcture of the common citzen is suffering."

Our military doesnt take away opportunities from people, it gives them. I retired from the military back in October. Got cash bonuses, GI Bill so I could go to school, good training and experience, and the chance to go to Germany twice, Japan once, and Saudi Arabia once. (along with some fun state side places as well) Point being...their are various opportunities in life for everybody, you just have look for them they wont look for you.

"To all Iraqs I say..HEY We got rid of Saddam since yous didn't have the nachos to lift a finger to revolt Now heres your country YOU rebuild it!!"

I think they are doing that. The liberal media wants you to think they are standing by and watching others do their work. Even though they face great peril for doing so... Remember how the insurgents didnt want them to vote? Lots of folks there faced death or injury for going to the polls.
 
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