Sprinter vs Cargomaxx

[jjoerger]

Has anyone done a cost of ownership comparison between these two vehicles?

If you were to purchase both new, run them 500,000 miles and then sell them, which one would cost more to own?

I know the Sprinter costs more to purchase and maintain, but it also gets better MPG's and may last longer. Will the Cargomaxx's gas motor last as long as the Sprinter diesel? What about resale value.

 

[chefdennis]

I know that the diesel Cargo Max is getting over 20 mpg...me i wouldn't own a diesel and the sprinter that TJp drives for my SIL is not getting a consistent 20 (the older 5 cyl's get better then 20 consistently) but one thing to keep in mind, the Cargo Max body is fberglass, it won't rust away..and it is a bolt on to the cut away..it would be no big dealto transfer the body to a new chassis...

That being said, I ain't plannin to drive that long,,so 500,000 mile isn't even a concern for me...

 

[guido4475]

I am seeing close to, and sometimes, over, .80 cents a gallon difference between gas and diesel.At a 20 gallon fillup, that ads up to alot, and can maybe even out the difference in mps between the two.I havent run the numbers yet.And then, there is the maintenance and repair side.A huge difference between the two, having owned 1 of each already.I love the gasser so much more.

 

[greg334]

How much can a diesel Cargo Max haul, the added weight seems to put a limit on what can be hauled?

I'm wondering Dennis if you want to take the "addition" to the van off and put it on another van with that new van having different dimensions, what then?

 

[mcavoy33]

How much can a diesel Cargo Max haul, the added weight seems to put a limit on what can be hauled?

I'm wondering Dennis if you want to take the "addition" to the van off and put it on another van with that new van having different dimensions, what then?

How big of a concern is this really though?

In the real world, I imagine Sprinters and Cargo Max's almost never turn down borderline loads. I also imagine that realistically, what does it matter if you are over weight in either? What is the weight difference, 600 lbs?

When I was in a sprinter, I had maybe 1 or 2 loads in the 3000-3500 pound load. 95% were under 2k.

If I was running a sprinter or CM, I honestly wouldn't care if I was over weight even 25% of the time. If you don't have to pull in to the scales, you have even less of a chance of getting caught.

Now that I have to abide by the law, its totally a different world. It really does suck making sure you are legal, within your HoS, etc.... but in a sprinter or CM, what does it really matter if you are overweight 1 in 20 loads if your not getting weighed?

Yea, I understand some of you are nits but I'll take the 1 in a 100 overweight penalty vs turning down 20 loads where I am overweight in a 5 year span.

Its all about risk vs reward and there's almost no risk imo.

 

[Turtle]

The "risk" isn't the overweight fee, as that's going to be very low risk and a rather cheap fine, at that. The risk is in the absolute certainty of dramatically increased wear on the friction parts of the transmission as well as the wheel bearings, and the increased stress on the entire drive train and suspension. People in vans and Sprinters don't avoid overweight out of fear of a fine, they avoid it out of certain damage to the vehicle, immediately apparent or not.

 

[Jenny]

We are a less than 5k from the 500k mark on our 06 sprinter so I can accurately answer this question for our situation. Bought in April of 07 so between purchase price, interest on the purchase, and maintenance we are at approximately $56k.

 

[mcavoy33]

The "risk" isn't the overweight fee, as that's going to be very low risk and a rather cheap fine, at that. The risk is in the absolute certainty of dramatically increased wear on the friction parts of the transmission as well as the wheel bearings, and the increased stress on the entire drive train and suspension. People in vans and Sprinters don't avoid overweight out of fear of a fine, they avoid it out of certain damage to the vehicle, immediately apparent or not.

Thanks for providing some valuable insight Turtle. I mostly talk out of my *** basing my judgements on generalities.

But when I was in a sprinter, heavy loads were a rarity. What percentage of your loads do you think gross 3000 pounds or more?

If I had to guess, how many loads that I had because I was in a sprinter, they would have been in the 12-18% range. When you factor in revenue, I think a sprinter can make as much as 20% more than a CV but the number of true sprinter loads that don't fit in a CV are in the 10-15% range of what I found I carried.

But I'm honestly making up these numbers based on memory.

 

[greg334]

Its all about risk vs reward and there's almost no risk imo.

Really?

Here is the concern.

An overloaded van is not a safe one.

There are a number of lawyers who see this as a problem when there is an accident. Remember there is no protection from a lawsuit in regards of neglect, some smart lawyer will know how to pursue damages and even may be able to squeeze out some punitive damages from this.

 

[LDB]

Yea, I understand some of you are nits

Its all about risk vs reward and there's almost no risk imo.

I may be a nit but that's better than a nitwit which is what I'd be if I ran overloaded. First, it's illegal which should be enough by itself to most people. Second, as mentioned, it's damaging to the vehicle by more than the gain from the load. Third, not yet mentioned yet I don't believe unless I missed it and perhaps most important of all, the increased risk of an accident that injures or kills innocent people due to the intentional illegal overloading of a vehicle by a selfish operator who thinks only of him/herself and a little more money above the safety of others on the roadways.

Now, before anyone jumps on me, this isn't directed at any one individual but at everyone who operates a vehicle and applies equally to those who overload regulated vehicles, run outside of HOS or otherwise violate laws and rules, not just the van operators who shouldn't be allowed on the road.

 

[Turtle]

But when I was in a sprinter, heavy loads were a rarity. What percentage of your loads do you think gross 3000 pounds or more?

Well, it's astoundingly small, since my dispatch knows my dimensions and freight capacity, so they rarely offer me load that would put me overweight in the first place. To date, I have carried two loads that were overweight in my Sprinter.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Since we are nit picking..

show me where exactly is it illegal for a CV/Sprinter to be overweight...

we are NOT a CMV nor regulated in any way by FMSCA


We are however regulated by good judgement and common sense....in civil court a good lawyer will take everything we have for being judged "unsafe" whether we are overtired or over weight or not kept in good mechanical order...

 

[greg334]

Since we are nit picking..

show me where exactly is it illegal for a CV/Sprinter to be overweight...

we are NOT a CMV nor regulated in any way by FMSCA

Dude, the FMCSA doesn't really enforce anything we do, the states do. When was the last time a truck owner got a ticket by a FMCSA officer who pulled them over for an inspection?

MOST of the regulations we deal with as drivers are handed down by the states, who either accept the FMCSA in total or have regulations and laws that are close enough.

As for the van not being a CMV issue, I have to ask you why you think that? I mean you have the company's name and DOT numbers on the side of the van, you have commercial insurance and in many cases you are not registered as an RV, so please get over it - you are a CMV.

You know what strikes me as something odd, reading some of this stuff makes me wonder where the intelligence is. I have never allowed an overweight load to hit my van - EVER. I never put money and the company ahead of my equipment or the safety of others and myself. No matter what the company offered me or in a few cases threatened me, I stood on the principle that it is my stuff and my decision, screw the idea that money is more important. Now many will say "it is only a few hundred pounds" or some crap like that but you know it doesn't matter because it is like handing a toddler a revolver with one bullet in the cylinder and saying "it only has one bullet in it".

 

[OntarioVanMan]

No use arguing with you...maybe Turtle will take you on...

 

[greg334]

Take me on for what?

There isn't any getting around it, you are regulated just as I am because you are doing this under the company logo and authority.

If that wasn't the case, you would not have numbers on your van, have plain old car insurance and the driver has no obligations at all to do much other than get a settlement. Even taking placard type hazmat, you are not a CMV so no placards are needed at all.

 

[beachbum]

Gregg the reason we have a dot number on the side of the van comes down to a FMCSA rule that if a company runs any vehicle that requires a DOT number then all vehicles have to have a DOT number.

If I was independent and had a company name I would not have to have a DOT number, therefore, still not a CMV. Like many out here you don't seem to understand that to be a CMV in a van under 10000 GVWR takes hauling a placard HM load than it only counts for that load. Once the signs come off your not a CMV anymore.

I cannot be DOT'd I don't cross scales, except in Wi, I think. I even talked to a Texas DOT officer about people talking about making vehicles under 10K GVWR being a CMV and he said no way because it would be a nightmare for states. He also went on to say I was a lucky driver running under 10K because he could not DOT me.

 

[greg334]

Gregg the reason we have a dot number on the side of the van comes down to a FMCSA rule that if a company runs any vehicle that requires a DOT number then all vehicles have to have a DOT number.

I know all of that, I'm just trying to add another side to this.

You are operating under the authority of said company and compensated to haul as a commercial entity. The point being that the courts don't care what you would call yourself if you are in an accident and sued, you are hauling for hire and you are still liable for the same things that a truck is when an accident occurs.

Has this happened?

Yes, several times.

I have been in the scales a few times where they have had a Panther or a FedEx van in there (they didn't seem to volunteer the turn into the scales) and they are weighing the van to see if it is overweight. Once in Ohio as my inspection was going on, they had one van in for an inspection, ticketed the guy for being 500lbs overweight and told him that he wasn't allowed to run with that weight, he had to split the load or get a "real" truck to take it.

The same thing applies to insurance, why do you require commercial insurance when you are not plying a trade in a non-commercial vehicle?

I think Linda posted an article about shippers having a legal liability and got to tell you carriers carry a bigger liability with vans when they are claiming they don't have to abide by the rules, when they may have to.

My state, which hardly anyone is left living here has a law on the books that says any vehicle being used in a commercial way, it is a commercial vehicle - period. This means my little VW bug that I used to haul specialised cargo in for a major carrier still is treated as a commercial vehicle regardless if it is over or under 10k because it is commercial cargo under an authority.

Remember I'm not saying this to dispute some myths but that a lot of van owners/drivers run like idiots to make that 79 cents a mile because the carrier demands that the freight has to be there yesterday.

 

[mcavoy33]

As for the van not being a CMV issue, I have to ask you why you think that? I mean you have the company's name and DOT numbers on the side of the van, you have commercial insurance and in many cases you are not registered as an RV, so please get over it - you are a CMV.
.

When I drove the Sprinter, it didn't have any DOT #'s on it or the company name. Its not required as far as I know.

 

[Turtle]

Take me on for what?

There isn't any getting around it, you are regulated just as I am because you are doing this under the company logo and authority.

"Jane, you ignorant ". - Dan Aykroyd

Doing this under the company logo and authority is not what determines being subject to regulation just as you are. The DOT and the states are very precise on what defines a vehicle subject to regulation. I cannot believe you typed with a straight face, "reading some of this stuff makes me wonder where the intelligence is," immediately after typing, "you have the company's name and DOT numbers on the side of the van, you have commercial insurance and in many cases you are not registered as an RV, so please get over it - you are a CMV." But, sadly, I fear you did, in fact, type it with a straight face.

You use "CMV" and "commercial vehicle" interchangeably as if they mean the same thing, liking a plumber's van, floral delivery, formal wear delivery, office supply delivery and every other vehicle used in a commercial endeavor as being the same as a heavy truck which is regulated by the DOT.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but this is your job, man, this is your job, and you should know the laws, rules and regulations governing the transportation of freight, what can and cannot be legally done, and which vehicles are subject to those laws, rules and regulations.

Clearly, you don't. And that's flat out scary, because even after being educated (which is supposed to fix "ignorant") with black and white, absolute unambiguous text of the laws concerning the regulations, you still cannot understand them, and yet you continue to dispense advice based on a solid foundation of wrong, wrong, wrong. To say a cargo van or Sprinter is a CMV because they haul freight with a logo and/or DOT number on the side, even after having read the regulations, is not even ignorant, it's just stupid. There's no other way to put it. I'll refrain from quoting Forrest Gump, however.

 

[beachbum]

Gregg, if I was to go by your reasoning of a cargo van is a CMV then I would have to have a DOT legal sleeper in the van. i would have to log sleeper berth and I would have to go into scales (which I don't ) would have to log which we don't If you also go by your reasoning then every company that has a business that uses a cargo van would be a CMV, their not because of the mess it would cause. How many cargo vans under 10K GVWR has a CVSA sticker on them, not many the only time he become a CMV is when we haul hazmat.

As for insurance the requirement for high liability is because companies require it to haul their freight and for no other reason. My plate says truck on because it the law for any business to have that type of plate. The state doesn't require any more vehicle insurance then is required for any other non CMV. I like other don't have a IRP plate or have to file state fuel taxes either.