Sprinter experience

[ronandpam]

In May 2004, we purchased a Freightliner Sprinter 3500 dually. I had read several threads about other folks experience with them and after 2 years and 200K miles, I want to tell a little of my experience. I would rate the van itself as very good. I rate the customer service as poor. The first problem we had was that there was a transmission fluid leak and there is no dipstick to check the fluid level. The fluid level would get low and we noticed some hesitation in the transmission. We took it in for service and they told me that the fluid needed changed. I asked why it needed changed so often. They told me that we were driving the van very hard. I said that can't be true. Finally, after going through this about 3 times, I told them that there was something serious wrong with the trans, and they told me that it had been leaking. They 'fixed' the leak but since then a transmission sensor went out and it is showing symptoms of more issues.
Finding parts, repair manuals, and quality service is very hard. Things must be ordered and we lose much time waiting for parts, etc.
We have had no engine problems and the fuel mileage is excellent.
If their customer service was any good, I would highly recommend this van.

 

[greg334]

Were did you go for service?

I find that many dealers who sell Sprinters and Dodge Cummins trucks have on tech who went through training but still don't have a clue when it comes to diesels. My local 5 star award winning great dealer cost me a lot of money on my 2500 becuase the tech didn't know how to adjust the idle.

also there are only two reasons why I would change trans fluid, one is that it is burnt from running really hard like pulling a trailer with a lot of weight on it (at that point I would think it may be time to rebuild the trans) and that I have 150K on the truck.

Oh one last thing, I have 2003 sprinter manual in electronic form (PDF) if any one wants a copy please PM me for the link.

 

[ronandpam]

We bought the van at Stoops in Indianapolis and that is where we have most service done. I change oil, filters (oil, air, air conditioning). I'd like to have it serviced somewhere else, but nobody else can seem to get any parts for it. I've talked to some other Sprinter owners and they get the parts from the dealer and take it to a diesel mechanic. I'm going to look into that. The Sprinter manual you are referring to, Is it just a maintenence manual? I have a website where I can order a 2003 Sprinter Service Info Diagnostic and wiring manual & CD. http://www.whnet.com/4x4/sprinter.html.

 

[vipra]

I also bought my Sprinter from Indy Stoops, and found myself dissatisfied with their salesman and their service dept. I now get all my service done at Geleana's Dodge in Warren, MI. Their service dept is very good. I don't know how they are with ordering parts- the only part I've needed in 170K miles was a fuel filter, which they had on hand.

 

[ronandpam]

I'm assuming you have a Freightliner since you got it from Stoops? We had one Dodge dealer that told us his diagnostic equipment could not be used on a Freightliner. That sounds a bit goofy to me but I suppose I could call the place in Warren and find out if there is a difference.

Thanks Vipra

 

[greg334]

>We bought the van at Stoops in Indianapolis and that is
>where we have most service done. I change oil, filters (oil,
>air, air conditioning). I'd like to have it serviced
>somewhere else, but nobody else can seem to get any parts
>for it. I've talked to some other Sprinter owners and they
>get the parts from the dealer and take it to a diesel
>mechanic. I'm going to look into that. The Sprinter manual
>you are referring to, Is it just a maintenence manual? I
>have a website where I can order a 2003 Sprinter Service
>Info Diagnostic and wiring manual & CD.
>http://www.whnet.com/4x4/sprinter.html.

I don't think it it is the maint manual, it seems to have overhaul info. It is 40 MB compressed and is the same one that is floating around ebay and other locations for $10/30/60 each.

 

[greg334]

>I'm assuming you have a Freightliner since you got it from
>Stoops? We had one Dodge dealer that told us his diagnostic
>equipment could not be used on a Freightliner. That sounds a
>bit goofy to me but I suppose I could call the place in
>Warren and find out if there is a difference.

What?! The dealer is lying! The same equipment is used on FL/Merc/dodge sprinters. These are the same exact vehicles except for the badging and maybe the vin numbers to reflect the badging.

It is beyond me how the dealers can get away with this. I know that many don't have a clue what a Diesel is and they seem to misdiagnost many problems and many are no more than parts changers.

 

[ronandpam]

I thought they were lying, but then I thought they were not really qualified to diagnose/fix the problem anyway. The Freightliner dealer told us that the Transmission Flex Plate had broken in turn caused the camshaft and crankshaft sensor to go out. I'm still suspicious that the Flex Plate had overheated when the tranny fluid leaked out.

 

[dhalltoyo]

All dealerships (GM, Ford, Chrysler, Freightliner, etc.) are pretty much the same. The manufacturer has NO control over the franchised dealer.

I begged and pleaded for 2 months for GM to stock fuel filters for the Duramax Diesel that is used in the Express 3500. I called GM customer service and they said, "We can only work through the local dealer network." "We can not force them to stock parts." Gee thanks!

So I spend $30,000 on your van and your can't supply a basic maintenance item? That is just wrong!!! I went to get an air filter last week and they had to special order one. Come guys, somebody is just not thinking!!! It should common sense that internal combustion engines require oil, fuel and air filters. Hey, look in the Owner's Manual that you give us to use. Better yet, try reading it yourselves!

You can't leave anything to chance when you pull into a service bay. I print a list of do's and don'ts for the service tech and I tape them to the dashboard. The oil change guy will try to top off the tranny with Dextron III, but the beefed up Hydramatic behind the Duramax takes Dextron IV. Most dealers don't even stock Dextron IV because they guy they sent to GM training forgot to tell them when he finished the class.

One axiom prevails: LEAVE NOTHING TO CHANCE!!! Document everything they do to your vehicle. I took off from the dealership one morning and headed to Cleveland with a load. Just above Mansfield I hit the squall line and it was an instant "white out." My front end began to drift on the snow covered road. I noticed it also took the bumps a little hard. I dropped off the load and checked my tire pressure. They had rotated my tires, BUT they did not re-adjusted the pressure. Gee whiz, I mean the recommended PSI is only printed on a label in plain view on the driver's side door. I was driving with 80 psi in the front tires and 50 psi in the rear tires. DUH!!! Just the opposite of what it should have been. I wonder where Mr. Goodwrench was when my van was being serviced. Now to add insult to injury, they did the same thing the very next time.

I had another dealership in SC try to slip my fuel tank vent hose back on. It wasn't securely mounted from the factory. When I filled up, diesel would shoot out of the vent elbow on top of the tank just as the pump handle clicked off. They dropped the tank and the service tech put the vent hose on a plugged elbow that was on top of the tank that is used in a dual tank configuration. Something told me to fuel up across the street form the dealership, but I thought, "How could anybody mess this one up." I went on down the road about 50 miles to pick up a load. When I stopped later on to fuel I heard the pump handle click off and then I heard the fuel hitting the pavement below the tank. Grrrrrr!!!! Got back home and my local dealer dropped the tank, discovered the hose on the dummy port and switched it to the actual vent hose return port. By the way, now the service manager puts his own pressure gauge on my tires when they bring it back around front.

Thought for the day: You can lead them to school, but you can't make them think.

The Duramax is great engine. I have about 40,000 on it and it is averaging 21.8 mpg. If I drive at 55 mph it can get 23+ mpg. The trick is to stay on top of the service techs so they don't mess it up! GM's motto should be: "We build a great engine, but we can't service your truck properly."

 

[LDB]

It sounds like one lesson from this is on the day you take delivery to go to the parts counter and order one set of filters and maybe also a set of belts/hoses so they'll be in by the time you need them. The other is to do like you said and post instructions for proper maintenance in a conspicuous place. it sounds like you almost need to have the tech read and initial the list before letting them work on your vehicle. Other than the maintenance/parts issues it sounds like you are getting great service out of your van. Almost 22mpg overall is excellent. That compares excellently with a Sprinter and I'm sure you have more power and reserver capacity than they do. Keep posting updates on your experiences.

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5507, 5508, 5509
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
----------
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.

 

[bryan]

HI
Someone needs to start an expeditor/rv only repair shop and parts catalog.Put it in Dayton or Indy.If you broke down somewhere else at least you could give the local shop a heads up on where to get parts instead of waiting 3 days in a hotel.

They would need to be open on Sundays as that seems to be the day most of us have free time.I do my own services and most repairs.I take off Sunday,crawl under the van to change oil and usually find something that needs fixed.So then Im off Monday to order the parts and Tuesday I sit around waiting on the parts and then Wenesday I finally gets the parts.So Im off 4 days on simple repairs.

They would also be better able to diagnosis problems.After a couple of years most of us have found the weak links in our trucks but dealers don't seem to keep track of this info or it gets deluted when combined with all the other vehicle repairs they do.WE wear out different parts than the civilian van driver or local delivery truck driver.

Dealers have limited storage space for parts,they can't keep every part in stock so they try to stock the parts they know they are going to sell.Locally my dealer has 5 expedite vans and probably thousands of cars and pickups.Who would you cater to?

I'm really suprised that one of the expedited carriers have not opened a repair shop yet.

 

[dhalltoyo]

Obviously they can not stock every part, but you ought to cover the basics! Air filters, oil filters, and fuel filters....that's basic repair class 101.

My GM van was manufactured in November 2005. I took delivery on January 19, 2006. I asked the parts department for fuel filters on February 15. I had to call everyone in the GM supply chain to get a set. I got them on March 13. They had to take a set from the production line and send them to the dealer. Nobody at GM thought to get the Fuel Filter into production. Duh! And that's the problem with the manufacturers; they don't think through the entire process.

I certainly hope that Nissan/Renault buys out GM. Things will change then and they will change for the better. One look at the engineering and design of Nissan/Renault vehicles is proof positive of a company that did sit back and rest on its fat reputation from an era gone by.

For years GM's attitude was, "We are the only game in town, so if we build junk...you still have to buy our trucks."

 

[greg334]

David
The only possible solution for these problems is getting back to basics, customer service from the top down and revise the dealer system completly - which GM is not known for their ablility to use solutions like these.

The only possible reason for the 'merger' or alliance between the three companies is to make someone richer, namely Kirk Kerkorian. He is pushing this just like Lutz and others pushed Chyrsler into a Mercedes takeover. It will solve nothing, it will cause more problems in the long run for the US market and workers here let alone the country as a whole. The culture shock alone will drive a lot of GM employees out just like D-C.

I read some garbage that now we are faced with a global auto market and that the US auto makers are forced to compete in the world market. That would be true if Ford and GM didn't have more plants overseas than they have in NA. It would also be true if they were not a major force in existing markets and emerging markets outside the NA market and are doing better outside of NA.

But living here in the 'motorcity' (gag) and watching these idiots stratigize solutions for problems they don't understand, I would think that any 'merger' or alliance will not solve the biggest front line issue they all have including Toyota, Nissan and Honda; the dealer situation. The Mercedes - Chysler merger proved that dealer improvment was left out of the equation and even years after many dealers in comparison to years past (the 1950s for example) would be regarded as substandard in their customer service and overall performance.

I did not attend te SAE conference this year because I didn't want to here the BS and the crying about how bad things are.

 

[ronandpam]

>All dealerships (GM, Ford, Chrysler, Freightliner, etc.) are
>pretty much the same. The manufacturer has NO control over
>the franchised dealer.
>
Does it mean anything then when a dealership is "authorized"? If the manufacturer has no control then the manufacturer really has very little control of its product sales. The reason I say that is because brand name customer loyalty and repeat sales are closely associated with the way dealerships service and treat customers.

My family vehicles have been Honda for the past 12 years. They have NEVER given me a service experience as pitiful as Dodge & Freightliner. It seems to be their goal to help me keep my Hondas on the road with maximum dependability and minimum cost for 15-20 years.

One time I had them perform a repair where they did not have a part in stock. Instead of ordering the part, they called me and asked if they could pick up the part at the local junkyard. They told me it would save alot of time and money. When I went to pick up the car, the part looked brand new. They also showed me some other minor repairs they did without charge. I was in shock. That type of product support is what builds a strong and loyal customer base that always wins in the long run.
If I could find a Honda for expediting, my profits would be up and my blood pressure down.

 

[greg334]

Ahh, I didn’t read the entire thread, me bad.

Look dealerships are franchises, meaning that the dealer has to pretty much do what the manufacture says within reason. What this means is that the dealer must abide by things like training and parts stock issues but there are exceptions, like the a dealer being forced to take on 300 pickups in their inventory to sell when the demographics of their customers are 99% car buyers. Ford had a very bad habit of just sending cars to a dealer with out notice, a practice that they did since 1915. A truck would pull in to the lot, start unloading and the dealer would now be overstocked with cars.

The parts thing is something that has been worked on for decades and has not changed a lot since the 40’s – there are people who devote their lives to inventory control. A dealer has a list of items that they are supposed to carry at all times for all models of the vehicles they sell and when the life cycle of the car reaches near the end, the inventory is rotated out back to the distribution point, etc.. Room for the parts has nothing to do with it; it is something of the nature of inventory taxes and inventory control.

If someone told me that they can’t force a dealer to stock maintenance parts, I would be complaining to the dealer I bought it from and possibly making a claim that they misrepresented the vehicle for commercial applications, I would also be writing to GM corporate to get a response. With that said, the manufacture tells the dealer on no uncertain terms that they will carry X parts and every month there is a list of things that are taken out of inventory and new stuff put into inventory. The real problem is that the US car companies are so lax in their regulating things like parts inventory that they lose more customers without realizing it.

As I have said, if the US automakers want to sell products, they need to get tough with their dealers. This idea of dealers being so important is a joke, I mean that living here in the motor city (gag) I hear this all the time and I keep hearing how a dealer has been here for forty years and how they have build their reputation up but I bet you if you ask their customers if it is important to go to that dealership opposed to another, you will find that they really don’t care it is about the money. What surprises me why doesn’t the companies get smart and eliminate the dealers all together, I mean lower the price of the car by the elimination of the dealer profit and provide real factory service – no BS selling.

And to end my ramblings, I close with this thought; the reason that the dealerships performance has been so dismal and getting worst as time goes by is the lease. I mean that it is far simpler for someone to lease a car, have basic maintenance done to it and turn it in when the lease is over. If there is a repair done, the person leasing the car really is not critical over the repair as say someone who bought the car which leads to fewer complaints about the dealer and their inability to repair things. In the long run the dealer gets away with things and the person who leases just picks out another car to lease and forgets about the repair. My local five star dealer (choke!!) does 89% of their work on lease vehicles, no wonder they are a five star dealer.

 

[Jack_Berry]

i know the fuel filter is hard to find so i offer this......i spoke to a fella who has an 8 passenger 2500 sprint and is gonna replace his mb hard to find and lots to pay for filter with a goldenrod filter that can be unscrewed and the paper element replaced. the warrenty is pretty much 36/36 right? makes sense. the new filter is 125 bucks but the paper element is less. try www.mcmaster-carr.com or www.northerntool,com



Jack Berry