Speaking of T/Stops Petro Truck Stops Sold to TA
- Thread starter swiftyexp
- Start date
mrgoodtude
Not a Member
RE: Speaking of T/Stops Petro Truck Stops Sold to
You "are" serious and I thought you were kidding...
http://www.qsrmagazine.com/articles/news/story.phtml?id=5503
You "are" serious and I thought you were kidding...
http://www.qsrmagazine.com/articles/news/story.phtml?id=5503
joebob1_30132
Expert Expediter
RE: Speaking of T/Stops Petro Truck Stops Sold to
I dont know ...lets see they just maybe smart enough to keep it the same and maybe up their emminities at the t/as ..they may keep it premium like motel chaines that have several options of price for eminities
I dont know ...lets see they just maybe smart enough to keep it the same and maybe up their emminities at the t/as ..they may keep it premium like motel chaines that have several options of price for eminities
RE: Speaking of T/Stops Petro Truck Stops Sold to
Another report says TA only got 29% formerly held by VOLVO.
http://www.trucknews.com/issues/ISArticle.asp?id=69616&issue=05312007
Another report says TA only got 29% formerly held by VOLVO.
http://www.trucknews.com/issues/ISArticle.asp?id=69616&issue=05312007
RE: Speaking of T/Stops Petro Truck Stops Sold to
In that same report
Subsequently, TravelCenters of America leased the truck stops owned by HPT and also acquired the outstanding assets of Petro Stopping Centers. It now controls all 69 Petro Stopping Centers travel centers in the US.
In that same report
Subsequently, TravelCenters of America leased the truck stops owned by HPT and also acquired the outstanding assets of Petro Stopping Centers. It now controls all 69 Petro Stopping Centers travel centers in the US.
Tennesseahawk
Veteran Expediter
RE: Speaking of T/Stops Petro Truck Stops Sold to
Oh wonderful! Another big company sucked up by an even bigger company. Never frequented Petros that much, but they were better than TAs for the most part. All I can say is "Two Whopper Mondays, anyone?"
-Vampire Super Slooth Trucker!!!
Oh wonderful! Another big company sucked up by an even bigger company. Never frequented Petros that much, but they were better than TAs for the most part. All I can say is "Two Whopper Mondays, anyone?"
-Vampire Super Slooth Trucker!!!
RE: Speaking of T/Stops Petro Truck Stops Sold to
I know there are some nice T/A's out there but I have yet to be lured into one. The ones I have stopped at seem to be the stereotypical variety of truckstop, nasty and lot lizard friendly. I hate to see Petro bought out by them even though I rarely stop at them either. I use Pilot for fuel and showers and thats about it. They seem to be alot more consistant in their cleanliness. The one in Seville that used to be a Williams (I think) is particularly nice and still has a full service restaurant the last time I was there.
When is Wal-Mart going to get in the truck stop business? :+
I know there are some nice T/A's out there but I have yet to be lured into one. The ones I have stopped at seem to be the stereotypical variety of truckstop, nasty and lot lizard friendly. I hate to see Petro bought out by them even though I rarely stop at them either. I use Pilot for fuel and showers and thats about it. They seem to be alot more consistant in their cleanliness. The one in Seville that used to be a Williams (I think) is particularly nice and still has a full service restaurant the last time I was there.
When is Wal-Mart going to get in the truck stop business? :+
RE: Speaking of T/Stops Petro Truck Stops Sold to
And hours later, Panther has aquired TA truck stops. They will now be named "The Cat Pan"
Just kidding. It will be interesting if anything changes on them. Some concern as alot of TA's are in pretty rough condition. I would've been happier had Petro bought TA
Davekc
owner
22 years
PantherII
EO moderator
And hours later, Panther has aquired TA truck stops. They will now be named "The Cat Pan"
Just kidding. It will be interesting if anything changes on them. Some concern as alot of TA's are in pretty rough condition. I would've been happier had Petro bought TA
Davekc
owner
22 years
PantherII
EO moderator
brownie4042
Seasoned Expediter
RE: Speaking of T/Stops Petro Truck Stops Sold to
Having worked for Pilot on some of takeover teams when they aquired both the Speedways and Williams, and due to the fact TA and Petro are somewhat similar in that they had both "house" restaurants and francizes(sp?), and have the large labor intensive full facilites, no changes right away. They will start by selling off the "duds", then re-image in their colors, then slowly coverting them to their TA way of doing business. This might be a hard point for some of you folks to agree with, but running well maintained 24/7/365 truck stops in some highly competitive markets with "razor thin" fuel margins is a "tough" task to pull off, and still show a profit or REI on the huge investments some of these truck stops are. Now that I am on "other side of fence", (the consumer, a driver) I too have grown fond of some of the options the larger truck stops offer, but know first hand how much these options trully cost to maintain at somewhat of a certain level of quality. Just as many people even though they are going through the motions of driving the truck, and puttting the time in,or even maybe "on the outside looking in", they just do not realize how hard it is to make a profit in our business doing it in a professonal, safe, and honest way. Only a guess on my part due to the fact I knew what smaller Pilot's were worth at one time, but I could see that Petro could have some those locations on the "books" for between $3-6 millon, not saying they will get book price. My experiance says also they might have some long-term supply agreements with Mobil they might have to abide by that sometimes are years: and Petro has been in play for about 2 to 3 three years that I am aware of. Pilot was interested, but even if there real intentions were not to pull the "trigger", all the "big boys" play the same game when it comes to M and A's. They all go through a big "dog and pony show" to seem intrested to drive the price up, so if they are not the buyer they hope like hell they made TA over pay for it. It will be intresting to see how this "shakes" out.
Brownie
Having worked for Pilot on some of takeover teams when they aquired both the Speedways and Williams, and due to the fact TA and Petro are somewhat similar in that they had both "house" restaurants and francizes(sp?), and have the large labor intensive full facilites, no changes right away. They will start by selling off the "duds", then re-image in their colors, then slowly coverting them to their TA way of doing business. This might be a hard point for some of you folks to agree with, but running well maintained 24/7/365 truck stops in some highly competitive markets with "razor thin" fuel margins is a "tough" task to pull off, and still show a profit or REI on the huge investments some of these truck stops are. Now that I am on "other side of fence", (the consumer, a driver) I too have grown fond of some of the options the larger truck stops offer, but know first hand how much these options trully cost to maintain at somewhat of a certain level of quality. Just as many people even though they are going through the motions of driving the truck, and puttting the time in,or even maybe "on the outside looking in", they just do not realize how hard it is to make a profit in our business doing it in a professonal, safe, and honest way. Only a guess on my part due to the fact I knew what smaller Pilot's were worth at one time, but I could see that Petro could have some those locations on the "books" for between $3-6 millon, not saying they will get book price. My experiance says also they might have some long-term supply agreements with Mobil they might have to abide by that sometimes are years: and Petro has been in play for about 2 to 3 three years that I am aware of. Pilot was interested, but even if there real intentions were not to pull the "trigger", all the "big boys" play the same game when it comes to M and A's. They all go through a big "dog and pony show" to seem intrested to drive the price up, so if they are not the buyer they hope like hell they made TA over pay for it. It will be intresting to see how this "shakes" out.
Brownie
joebob1_30132
Expert Expediter
RE: Speaking of T/Stops Petro Truck Stops Sold to
Nice post Brownie!! hey I learned something ..without a mention of crap dispaters ruining my money or the new favorite .. my truck, fleet, team s are always busy we never slow down we are having record quarters... all the rest of you are just ##### poor whinners with low acceptance rates... ( the happening new false slug line)..
Nice post Brownie!! hey I learned something ..without a mention of crap dispaters ruining my money or the new favorite .. my truck, fleet, team s are always busy we never slow down we are having record quarters... all the rest of you are just ##### poor whinners with low acceptance rates... ( the happening new false slug line)..
Tennesseahawk
Veteran Expediter
RE: Speaking of T/Stops Petro Truck Stops Sold to
Well... you're just a non-spelling, feet smelling, old redneck!
-Vampire Super Slooth Trucker!!!
Well... you're just a non-spelling, feet smelling, old redneck!
-Vampire Super Slooth Trucker!!!
RE: Speaking of T/Stops Petro Truck Stops Sold to
Well Brownie, Again I agree with some of your statements but your numbers tell me that you have been away from the biz for a few years. 1st of all 3-5 Million would be cheap for a Petro. The Property is generally 3 times that of a pilot. Remember They have usually three times the sq footage, larger parking, shops, etc. Remember TA got Petro for the Bargin Price of 630 Million Dollars. Also Petro recieves income from many of there locations due to rent for retail establishments. Many even have mini strips malls outside. Again they recieved 631 Million for 69 Locations, 25 are Francised out. "Razor Thin" Margins are also a phrase from the past. Remember Brownie when we were in the Companies Complained about the margins for only making 1 cent a gallon. Google Fuel Margins today. Many chain Independents are seeing up to 18 cents average with a 10 cents average. I am sure Pilots should be larger after "Big Jims" Deal with Marathon. Remember most other independents are buying wholesale fuel. Not having a major oil companies backing. The Big Three does however. According to "TA" Petro and TA will operated as two different companies and brands. Many of the decision makers from Petro will stay on. I feel like this was stated for Moral and Eventually will be one brand. My point is just a discussion but Comparing the value of a Pilot and any other brand is like comparing apples and oranges. While Pilot has some of the highest inside sales and fuel sales per location, TA's, Petro's, and J's real estate is typically larger. Not to metion most of the Pilot Truck Care facility are leased to Goodyear and are not operated by "pilot"
ANOTHER MAJOR POINT - Here something I learned while working in middle management that your P & L's wouldn't have shown. That these big companies don't tell there Strore Management. While such harsh realities make it tough on most independent operators, industry giants like Pilot enjoy greater financial flexibility. They have the advantage of fending off some losses by hedging—buying oil futures or derivatives. Annually pushing billions of gallons of fuel, Pilot has the ability to buy ahead, locking in prices for a set number of years.
Brownie you probably know this but other readers may not but a little tid bit of info about how Pilot Oil founder
Following his return from a military stint in Korea in 1954, former University of Tennessee football team captain James A. “Big Jim†Haslam II received three job offers. One was from his former coach and mentor, General Bob Neyland, to become an assistant football coach for the Volunteers. Another was to become head football coach at South Pittsburg High School west of Chattanooga. The last was an offer to go to work for a man in the gasoline business in LaFollette, Tenn., north of Knoxville.
Neyland went on to hire eventual U.T. head football coach Johnny Majors as his assistant.
Well Brownie, Again I agree with some of your statements but your numbers tell me that you have been away from the biz for a few years. 1st of all 3-5 Million would be cheap for a Petro. The Property is generally 3 times that of a pilot. Remember They have usually three times the sq footage, larger parking, shops, etc. Remember TA got Petro for the Bargin Price of 630 Million Dollars. Also Petro recieves income from many of there locations due to rent for retail establishments. Many even have mini strips malls outside. Again they recieved 631 Million for 69 Locations, 25 are Francised out. "Razor Thin" Margins are also a phrase from the past. Remember Brownie when we were in the Companies Complained about the margins for only making 1 cent a gallon. Google Fuel Margins today. Many chain Independents are seeing up to 18 cents average with a 10 cents average. I am sure Pilots should be larger after "Big Jims" Deal with Marathon. Remember most other independents are buying wholesale fuel. Not having a major oil companies backing. The Big Three does however. According to "TA" Petro and TA will operated as two different companies and brands. Many of the decision makers from Petro will stay on. I feel like this was stated for Moral and Eventually will be one brand. My point is just a discussion but Comparing the value of a Pilot and any other brand is like comparing apples and oranges. While Pilot has some of the highest inside sales and fuel sales per location, TA's, Petro's, and J's real estate is typically larger. Not to metion most of the Pilot Truck Care facility are leased to Goodyear and are not operated by "pilot"
ANOTHER MAJOR POINT - Here something I learned while working in middle management that your P & L's wouldn't have shown. That these big companies don't tell there Strore Management. While such harsh realities make it tough on most independent operators, industry giants like Pilot enjoy greater financial flexibility. They have the advantage of fending off some losses by hedging—buying oil futures or derivatives. Annually pushing billions of gallons of fuel, Pilot has the ability to buy ahead, locking in prices for a set number of years.
Brownie you probably know this but other readers may not but a little tid bit of info about how Pilot Oil founder
Following his return from a military stint in Korea in 1954, former University of Tennessee football team captain James A. “Big Jim†Haslam II received three job offers. One was from his former coach and mentor, General Bob Neyland, to become an assistant football coach for the Volunteers. Another was to become head football coach at South Pittsburg High School west of Chattanooga. The last was an offer to go to work for a man in the gasoline business in LaFollette, Tenn., north of Knoxville.
Neyland went on to hire eventual U.T. head football coach Johnny Majors as his assistant.
greg334
Veteran Expediter
RE: Speaking of T/Stops Petro Truck Stops Sold to
“ANOTHER MAJOR POINT - Here something I learned while working in middle management that your P & L's wouldn't have shown. That these big companies don't tell there Store Management. While such harsh realities make it tough on most independent operators, industry giants like Pilot enjoy greater financial flexibility. They have the advantage of fending off some losses by hedging—buying oil futures or derivatives. Annually pushing billions of gallons of fuel, Pilot has the ability to buy ahead, locking in prices for a set number of years.â€
Swiftyexp,
First don’t get me wrong, I really thank you and brownie for the explanation of the workings of these businesses. It opened my eyes to something else not related but very helpful.
But anyway the above quote confirms what I have been complaining about the price of fuel.
The thing I see, as a consumer, is nothing but the price at the pump, the outrageous prices on items in the store and the poor overall service at many of the truck stops.
I am not begrudging making a profit but when you have a 30% to 40% or even higher prices in a truck stop, added to this the franchise that makes pretty good profit within the truck stop (McDonalds, Arbys, Subway or what ever) and what you mentioned as a 10¢ to 18¢ for independent and higher for Pilot all adds up to gouging of some sort of a trapped consumer.
Sorry you can justify Pilot’s position any way you want but taking the Wal-Mart theory (buying in quantity and passing price breaks on to the consumer) and seeing that they, pilot, T/A and Loves are large enough to negotiate contracts that give them bigger breaks on items they sell, they should start looking at how to retain customers outside of being only a place to buy fuel.
As for T/A, it don’t matter it is all big business. The age of real truck stops has been dead for a while; all these places are just oversize 7-11s. “Thank you, come again.â
“ANOTHER MAJOR POINT - Here something I learned while working in middle management that your P & L's wouldn't have shown. That these big companies don't tell there Store Management. While such harsh realities make it tough on most independent operators, industry giants like Pilot enjoy greater financial flexibility. They have the advantage of fending off some losses by hedging—buying oil futures or derivatives. Annually pushing billions of gallons of fuel, Pilot has the ability to buy ahead, locking in prices for a set number of years.â€
Swiftyexp,
First don’t get me wrong, I really thank you and brownie for the explanation of the workings of these businesses. It opened my eyes to something else not related but very helpful.
But anyway the above quote confirms what I have been complaining about the price of fuel.
The thing I see, as a consumer, is nothing but the price at the pump, the outrageous prices on items in the store and the poor overall service at many of the truck stops.
I am not begrudging making a profit but when you have a 30% to 40% or even higher prices in a truck stop, added to this the franchise that makes pretty good profit within the truck stop (McDonalds, Arbys, Subway or what ever) and what you mentioned as a 10¢ to 18¢ for independent and higher for Pilot all adds up to gouging of some sort of a trapped consumer.
Sorry you can justify Pilot’s position any way you want but taking the Wal-Mart theory (buying in quantity and passing price breaks on to the consumer) and seeing that they, pilot, T/A and Loves are large enough to negotiate contracts that give them bigger breaks on items they sell, they should start looking at how to retain customers outside of being only a place to buy fuel.
As for T/A, it don’t matter it is all big business. The age of real truck stops has been dead for a while; all these places are just oversize 7-11s. “Thank you, come again.â
joebob1_30132
Expert Expediter
RE: Speaking of T/Stops Petro Truck Stops Sold to
>Well... you're just a non-spelling, feet smelling, old
>redneck!
>
>-Vampire Super Slooth Trucker!!!
Hey....i wish I had a dime every time my momma called me that..LOL Spelling ..i chalk it up to being to darn lazy to hit the spoell check :7
>Well... you're just a non-spelling, feet smelling, old
>redneck!
>
>-Vampire Super Slooth Trucker!!!
Hey....i wish I had a dime every time my momma called me that..LOL Spelling ..i chalk it up to being to darn lazy to hit the spoell check :7
RE: Speaking of T/Stops Petro Truck Stops Sold to
Oh I am sorry, You must have took me wrong if you thought I was defending the Pilots, T/A's Etc. I agree with you. As far as most merchandise you are right, but I am going to defend these places prices in a couple of places, Truckers Supplies, Electronics, figurines etc they are usually making market profit margins on. Even groceries. They use a distributor for these items and everyone has to make a profit which in turns drives price up. If i have to give 1.99 for vienna sausages no big deal. Here is where These company I agree gouge the consumer. At the Pump, Like the quote stated they(big companies) Reserve fuel for years to come on todays price, even that most companies have some kind of partnership with fuel. Flying J with shell, Wilco with Hess, Pilot with Marathon etc. The margins are going up with the price of fuel. Candy and soft drinks contracts are negotiated at minimum of once a year. They deal in large volumes with these items. Fast Food prices should be the same in the truck stops as they are at the free standing locations, I agree with all of that. MY POINT I WAS TRYING (I may not have) TO MAKE WAS THIS: These big companies such as pilots, T/A, Loves etc make enough to profit to give good service, keep clean facilities and give the drivers some FREE admentie(not charge for everyone of them). I read into Brownies point as I took it that these companies was working on thin margins as they were 3-5 years ago, but truth is these companies are not working on those same thin margins and could give some breaks to the consumers. I agree with you greg on those points but you have to admit that Petro's are nice facilities if your on a layover. If we are waiting on the meat and 3 with drink $5 meal I don't think that is gonna happen. Are we gonna a friendly face at the diesel desk that has a Free Shower for you even if you can't fuel till tommorrow or not fuel at all. I think those days are gone. Like Wal-Mart these stores are gonna suck the american truck driver for all they can get there hand on. All I am saying look at TA's more than are not are dirty, rough parking lots(holes) create a sterotypical truck driver. I don't know about you but I am a businessman who happens to drive a truck. By pilot's own admission they cater to Larger Truck Fleets, should I get less service because I have only one truck? Should I have to pay more for my fuel because I have only 1 truck, I understand volume buying, really I do but that creates monopolies like Wal-Mart when mom and pops stores start closing down. The same will happen to trucking business between cheap freight and Big Companies get fuel discounts. I don't drive for Fed-Ex, panther or one of the big companies, I dont get 2,3,4 or 5 cents discounts. I pay the price listed...................OK sorry I am ranted but I surly don't want to give impression that I am taking up for the Monster Companies.
Thanks for the discussion
Oh I am sorry, You must have took me wrong if you thought I was defending the Pilots, T/A's Etc. I agree with you. As far as most merchandise you are right, but I am going to defend these places prices in a couple of places, Truckers Supplies, Electronics, figurines etc they are usually making market profit margins on. Even groceries. They use a distributor for these items and everyone has to make a profit which in turns drives price up. If i have to give 1.99 for vienna sausages no big deal. Here is where These company I agree gouge the consumer. At the Pump, Like the quote stated they(big companies) Reserve fuel for years to come on todays price, even that most companies have some kind of partnership with fuel. Flying J with shell, Wilco with Hess, Pilot with Marathon etc. The margins are going up with the price of fuel. Candy and soft drinks contracts are negotiated at minimum of once a year. They deal in large volumes with these items. Fast Food prices should be the same in the truck stops as they are at the free standing locations, I agree with all of that. MY POINT I WAS TRYING (I may not have) TO MAKE WAS THIS: These big companies such as pilots, T/A, Loves etc make enough to profit to give good service, keep clean facilities and give the drivers some FREE admentie(not charge for everyone of them). I read into Brownies point as I took it that these companies was working on thin margins as they were 3-5 years ago, but truth is these companies are not working on those same thin margins and could give some breaks to the consumers. I agree with you greg on those points but you have to admit that Petro's are nice facilities if your on a layover. If we are waiting on the meat and 3 with drink $5 meal I don't think that is gonna happen. Are we gonna a friendly face at the diesel desk that has a Free Shower for you even if you can't fuel till tommorrow or not fuel at all. I think those days are gone. Like Wal-Mart these stores are gonna suck the american truck driver for all they can get there hand on. All I am saying look at TA's more than are not are dirty, rough parking lots(holes) create a sterotypical truck driver. I don't know about you but I am a businessman who happens to drive a truck. By pilot's own admission they cater to Larger Truck Fleets, should I get less service because I have only one truck? Should I have to pay more for my fuel because I have only 1 truck, I understand volume buying, really I do but that creates monopolies like Wal-Mart when mom and pops stores start closing down. The same will happen to trucking business between cheap freight and Big Companies get fuel discounts. I don't drive for Fed-Ex, panther or one of the big companies, I dont get 2,3,4 or 5 cents discounts. I pay the price listed...................OK sorry I am ranted but I surly don't want to give impression that I am taking up for the Monster Companies.
Thanks for the discussion
RE: Speaking of T/Stops Petro Truck Stops Sold to
I again say thank you to our truck stop-informed people for sharing information gained from their truck stop management experience. This is truly fascinating stuff. Keep it coming!
Regarding razor-thin margins, I have to wonder how much a truck stop's expenses would increase if they changed the mop water more frequently when cleaning the showers, or emptied the shower waste baskets each time. It is little things like that that keep us coming back to some truck stops and avoiding others.
Our fuel purhcase decisions are driven most often by the rebate Pilot gives FedEx Custom Critical contractors, price checks on the DieselBoss web site (http://www.dieselboss.com/fuel.htm), and state fuel tax considerations.
As far as truck stop prices for merchandise go, our philosophy is simple. Other than fuel and showers, if we buy anything at a truck stop, we are wrong. Wal-Mart, NAPA and trailer shops provide the same merchandise at lower costs. We do sometimes buy stuff at truck stops because of the convenience, but then know we are making a price/convenience tradeoff. Occasional exceptions for restaurant food are made at truck stops where the food is worth eating or if we meet other expediters and join them for a meal.
Almost always, we get in and out of truck stops quickly. I have lost count of how many parking lot accidents I have personally witnessed at truck stops. I have seen trucks sheer off the front ends of other trucks, trucks back into other trucks, and trucks turn into other trucks. To protect our truck, we get in and out as quickly as possible.
Look around any truck stop. There is not a thing standing that has not been hit or run over by a truck. I have come to believe that if you are parked in a truck stop, you are an accident waiting to happen. The fact that you are not at fault is cold comfort as you suffer down time for the repairs.
I again say thank you to our truck stop-informed people for sharing information gained from their truck stop management experience. This is truly fascinating stuff. Keep it coming!
Regarding razor-thin margins, I have to wonder how much a truck stop's expenses would increase if they changed the mop water more frequently when cleaning the showers, or emptied the shower waste baskets each time. It is little things like that that keep us coming back to some truck stops and avoiding others.
Our fuel purhcase decisions are driven most often by the rebate Pilot gives FedEx Custom Critical contractors, price checks on the DieselBoss web site (http://www.dieselboss.com/fuel.htm), and state fuel tax considerations.
As far as truck stop prices for merchandise go, our philosophy is simple. Other than fuel and showers, if we buy anything at a truck stop, we are wrong. Wal-Mart, NAPA and trailer shops provide the same merchandise at lower costs. We do sometimes buy stuff at truck stops because of the convenience, but then know we are making a price/convenience tradeoff. Occasional exceptions for restaurant food are made at truck stops where the food is worth eating or if we meet other expediters and join them for a meal.
Almost always, we get in and out of truck stops quickly. I have lost count of how many parking lot accidents I have personally witnessed at truck stops. I have seen trucks sheer off the front ends of other trucks, trucks back into other trucks, and trucks turn into other trucks. To protect our truck, we get in and out as quickly as possible.
Look around any truck stop. There is not a thing standing that has not been hit or run over by a truck. I have come to believe that if you are parked in a truck stop, you are an accident waiting to happen. The fact that you are not at fault is cold comfort as you suffer down time for the repairs.