Something of Historic Proportion is Happening" by Pam Geller

[witness23]

I did a "search" in the Soapbox for Pam Geller and stumbled across this thread Something of Historic Proportion is Happening" by Pam Geller.

One particular part of thread between Pilgrim, Tallcal, and Letzrock was quite entertaining, especially this part from Pilgrim:

And Bin laudin fiddles in his cave.

What the h*ll does this have to do with the subject at hand? But since you mentioned it, you might have noticed that Osama's name hasn't been mentioned at all since Barack Hussein Obama was sworn in - not once! In fact, terms like "war on terror" and "terrorist" are no longer fashionable with this administration. I guess the campaign promise to hunt down Osama is another one that will be ignored. Maybe they've come to the realization that he's been dead for years.

Actions speak louder than words. Bin Laden is somewhere along the border of Pakistan and Afghanistan. That is why 4,000 more troops were sent there this week to train the Afghans..They;re going after him. They just aren't saying so. Talk is cheap.

*emphasis added

If that turns out to be the case, I'll be the first to stand up and applaud. However, the troops we're sending over there had better be more concerned with the Taliban and their resurgence as opposed to an aging invalid who has been essentially neutralized (assuming he's still alive) since we blew up his caves in Tora Bora. There are a number of military people that think he's been dead for some time, and the audio recordings that supposedly come from him are just clever fakes. Remember, for a publicity hound like Bin Laden - who during his heyday was constantly releasing video material to inspire his fellow jihadists - to suddenly stop this practice in favor of audio releases is a bit incredible. One can only speculate as to why Al Queada doesn't declare him a martyr and use that to inspire the faithful. To maintain him as a mythical figure probably holds more value in their strange way of thinking. He was never valuable as a tactician anyway.

On the other hand, if our troops happen to catch up with Al-Zawahyri and neutralize him, that would be an even better accomplishment. But to have any significant success against the Taliban or Al-Queada over there, it will probably take more than 4,000 troops. We can only hope that Obama will let the military commanders run the operations over there and will keep himself and the other politicians out of the way. I realize that's wishful thinking, but one can only hope.

Since the news has come out about Bin Ladens death, all I was able to find from Pilgrim was this:

Wonder what his 72 virgins look like?

I wonder if he stood up and applauded?

 

[Turtle]

Just out of curiosity, mostly my own, I was wondering... are you an actual expediter, with either your own authority or leased on to a carrier? The reason I ask is, I just find it a little odd that an expediter would post on an expediting Web site and never post in any of the expediting-related forums, sticking exclusively to the Soapbox Forum (or nearly exclusively, 168 threads started by you, not one of them outside of this forum. I admit I haven't checked all 1400+ of your postings, so there may be a scant handful of postings in other forums).

The other reason I ask is that this thread in particular clearly has but one purpose, and it's not one that is conducive to the free exchange of ideas and information. It's one of confrontation and could easily fall into the category of trolling, or at the least belongs in a PM between you and someone else. Considering the Code of Conduct was created to foster a professional attitude in all of the forums, and this thread shows very little of it, again I ask if you are in fact a professional driver, or merely a professional Soapboxer.

 

[chefdennis]

Layout has asked about witnes's expedite carrer several times and I can't ever remember an answer.....

 

[cheri1122]

Layout has asked about witnes's expedite carrer several times and I can't ever remember an answer.....

And I've asked Layout dozens of questions that never got an answer....
Is being a driver a prerequisite for membership, now? Because there are others who have said they aren't expediters [Brisco comes to mind], and no one tried to make them feel unwelcome - but maybe that's because they're on the "right" side of the political spectrum?
It hardly fosters an 'exchange of ideas' to belittle and jeer at anyone who sounds too liberal for the majority viewpoint - it's why some interesting people [like TallCal] are no longer with us. That's really pretty sad for a group of 'professionals', IMO - that respect depends upon one's political views.
The rules are a bit looser on the Soapbox, because it isn't about our work, and I found Witness' comments to be perfectly justifiable - people are quick to point out any mistake HE makes, in case that slipped past your notice.

 

[dieseldiva]

- people are quick to point out any mistake HE makes, in case that slipped past your notice.

Come on Cheri, you have to admit that witness does his share of pointing out mistakes of those that he disagrees with as well. All's fair in love and war.

 

[cheri1122]

"All's fair in love and war" is a pretty stupid saying, IMO, and totally untrue, besides.[Just had to get that out of my system, ok?]
Yes, he does - we all do. But suggesting his question is trolling, or ought to have been a PM, is unjustified, IMO. Pilgrim made a public statement, and it's fair to ask whether he stands behind it now that what he ridiculed has actually happened, isn't it?
When everyone with opposing ideas gets hounded out of the Soapbox, where's the "free and open exchange of ideas" then?

 

[Pilgrim]

I did a "search" in the Soapbox for Pam Geller and stumbled across this thread Something of Historic Proportion is Happening" by Pam Geller.

Dam crystal ball...screwed up again.

• You betcha I stood up and cheered, and the reason being...

"We can only hope that Obama will let the military commanders run the operations over there and will keep himself and the other politicians out of the way. I realize that's wishful thinking, but one can only hope."

• Lo and behold, that's exactly what happened.

What makes a forum interesting is the opportunity to speculate and offer opinions - educated or uneducated, informed or uninformed. Given that we base these on what we see in the media, it could be any of these, but the integrity of sources is always suspect. But the idea of a rich fugitive requiring dialysis living in a cave was always a bit of a stretch.

Sometimes there's no reason to repeat what has already been posted. Others had already cheered the death of this worthless piece of slime, so that statement had been made. But keep in mind this successful raid was the culmination of YEARS of intelligence gathering by the agencies that Obama was at one point actively trying to neutralize. The CIA and the US Military formulated an opportunity for success and Obama and his minions obviously recognized this was a time to roll the dice with the odds in their favor, based on the opinions of their military and intelligence experts. They succeeded and their team deserves credit. Way to go Mr. President - now about that national debt issue....

 

[greg334]

By the way I got 17 pages of his posts from a search that are made outside this forum.

 

[greg334]

But keep in mind this successful raid was the culmination of YEARS of intelligence gathering by the agencies that Obama was at one point actively trying to neutralize.

Sorry to ruffle feathers but I don't see it as a success but a real failure because it took YEARS. It took over 9 years to locate one person in a limited area while it took less than 4 to bring an end to a horrible war. We are still fighting in Afghanistan and now our ally, who knew he was there, is questioning our actions within their border.

With that, we have to seriously ask ourselves as a country, where we failed and why? Is it because we didn't take it seriously enough, tying our hands through legal maneuvering or are we too involved with the international community that we worry what others think and how they will react to some of our action we deem needed to find and kill those who try to kill us?

 

[dieseldiva]

"All's fair in love and war" is a pretty stupid saying, IMO, and totally untrue, besides.[Just had to get that out of my system, ok?]
Yes, he does - we all do. But suggesting his question is trolling, or ought to have been a PM, is unjustified, IMO. Pilgrim made a public statement, and it's fair to ask whether he stands behind it now that what he ridiculed has actually happened, isn't it?
When everyone with opposing ideas gets hounded out of the Soapbox, where's the "free and open exchange of ideas" then?

Yep......Pilgrim can handle himself.....I was just pointing out to you that you pointed out to everyone that witness had been wrongly pointed out but does his own pointing out......or something like that.....

 

[layoutshooter]

Pakistan is hardly an ally. They are hardly trust worthy. They threw us out of there before. Closed our bases and let the Soviets in. I knew far too many people who were station in that town very near where the bum was killed. They were required to close down ops and move out in about a 2 week period.



It is much easier to fight a war when you decide to fight it. We stopped doing that at the end of WWII.

 

[greg334]

It is much easier to fight a war when you decide to fight it. We stopped doing that at the end of WWII.

That's my point, we stopped using what we can use and worry about hurting people's feelings.

 

[Turtle]

Is being a driver a prerequisite for membership, now?

Not as far as I know, nor do I know anyone who has even suggested such a thing. If it were, it would make it impossible for those researching the industry to participate here.

That's really pretty sad for a group of 'professionals', IMO - that respect depends upon one's political views.

True, but I didn't notice myself or Chef doing anything of the sort here in this thread. I know pretty much what I wrote, and I read what Chef wrote three times, and nowhere can I find anything political or belittling in either of our posts. I simply asked a simple question, and had thought my reasoning behind it was made clear enough. Perhaps I am mistaken. Asking if someone is an expediter is no different than asking someone if they are an owner, or who they drive for, or what kind of vehicle they drive. Like I said, I am just curious.

The rules are a bit looser on the Soapbox, because it isn't about our work, and I found Witness' comments to be perfectly justifiable - people are quick to point out any mistake HE makes, in case that slipped past your notice.

The Soapbox and other forums are just loaded with previous statements that may or may not be true today, especially when it comes to opinions of current events that are now in a different context. Speculation and wild opinions is what makes for good debate, generally speaking. Bringing up past speculation and opinion and then trying to hold it up in front of someone's face today, in public, does very little to foster the free exchange of ideas and information.

 

[layoutshooter]

That's my point, we stopped using what we can use and worry about hurting people's feelings.

Not my fault or my idea. IF I were in charge and, IF, I concluded that we needed to take action some where, we WOULD go in, HEAVY, take out the problem and finish it. I don't go in for this ***** footing around.

 

[greg334]

That's what they should have done in the first place.

We invaded Afghanistan because that was the base of operations for Bin Laden but than lost our momentum when we shifted to Iraq. I understand what Iraq was about but there wasn't a need to deal with them until we located Bin Laden first. It seems to me that if this was 1943, we would have first invaded Sicily than stopped and went and invaded Sardinia instead of pushing into Italy.

This delayed the capture or killing of Bin Laden and this is the problem that I and a lot of others are having when people claim it is a victory.

 

[layoutshooter]

That's what they should have done in the first place.

We invaded Afghanistan because that was the base of operations for Bin Laden but than lost our momentum when we shifted to Iraq. I understand what Iraq was about but there wasn't a need to deal with them until we located Bin Laden first. It seems to me that if this was 1943, we would have first invaded Sicily than stopped and went and invaded Sardinia instead of pushing into Italy.

This delayed the capture or killing of Bin Laden and this is the problem that I and a lot of others are having when people claim it is a victory.

Bin Laden SHOULD have been captured and or killing in 1987. Than a LOT of this MIGHT not have happened. Too many hang wringers stopped us. No one listened when they first warned them about him WAY back then.

We also SHOULD have done something when the Soviets pulled out of Afghanistan instead of allowing a power vacuum to develop. Then our "buddies" in Pakistan would NOT have "assisted" the Taliban in their take over of things. It would have cost us FAR less than what we have now.

 

[dieseldiva]

Bringing up past speculation and opinion and then trying to hold it up in front of someone's face today, in public, does very little to foster the free exchange of ideas and information.

Especially coming from someone who has, on more than one occasion, berated others for "dragging" things from thread to thread.

 

[Turtle]

Especially coming from someone who has, on more than one occasion, berated others for "dragging" things from thread to thread.

Why "especially"? You mean like you just tried to do to me here? Whether bringing up something from the past like an opinion of speculation as in this thread, or dragging something else from outside the current thread into the current thread for the express purpose of using it against someone, it never serves the purpose of debate, of a free exchange of ideas and information. So whether "especially" from me or not, it's true regardless of who says it.

 

[dieseldiva]

Why "especially"? You mean like you just tried to do to me here? Whether bringing up something from the past like an opinion of speculation as in this thread, or dragging something else from outside the current thread into the current thread for the express purpose of using it against someone, it never serves the purpose of debate, of a free exchange of ideas and information. So whether "especially" from me or not, it's true regardless of who says it.

Sheesh, I was talking about WITNESS......

 

[Turtle]

Sheesh, I was talking about WITNESS......

Sorry, in the context of you quoting me, I assumed you were talking to me.

EDIT: Plus, paying more attention to the post rather than the poster is one of my things. Also, probably because as a general rule I don't pay that much attention to what he posts, I wasn't even aware that Witness had a similar campaign. If so, he apparently slipped off the campaign wagon with this thread. <snicker>