Some real good snaps of our troops at work..

[Camper]

Come on Camper...that is baiting at best....

I could say, it is comical as well..you trying to justify your stance.....

Oh, and the comment that preceded it wasn't?

I explained my rationale. I'd love to hear something more than "I feel sorry for you". I can respect an intelligent argument but not a cheap shot.


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[OntarioVanMan]

What about Vietnam and the European half of our involvement of WWII, Desert Storm(bailing out a country the size of RI, seriously?)?

I would argue that every international campaign except for the bombing of Tripoli in '86 was an utter waste, meant to benefit a small group of those with a vested interest(defense contractors, big business, etc.).


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DOH..you are above my pay grade maybe?....I am only so knowledgible about American involvement...I am a Canuck remember?

or I could attempt to BS my way thru this....

 

[Camper]

DOH..you are above my pay grade maybe?....I am only so knowledgible about American involvement...I am a Canuck remember?

or I could attempt to BS my way thru this....

I guarantee you, you know more about American History than most Americans do which isn't saying much....LOL



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[OntarioVanMan]

Oh, and the comment that preceded it wasn't?

I explained my rationale. I'd love to hear something more than "I feel sorry for you". I can respect an intelligent argument but not a cheap shot.


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Knowing Golfournut the way I do....It was merely a statement....opinion....he wasn't baiting...he meant it.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

I guarantee you, you know more about American History than most Americans do which isn't saying much....LOL



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Did I just get slammed? or was that a sneaky compliment? LOL

 

[Camper]

Did I just get slammed? or was that a sneaky compliment? LOL

Flip a coin..


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[OntarioVanMan]

Flip a coin..


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taking out my Canadian Looney......oh.... Thank you...

 

[layoutshooter]

What about Vietnam and the European half of our involvement of WWII, Desert Storm(bailing out a country the size of RI, seriously?)?

I would argue that every international campaign except for the bombing of Tripoli in '86 was an utter waste, meant to benefit a small group of those with a vested interest(defense contractors, big business, etc.).


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Korea and Vietnam were "hot periods" in the so called, "Cold War". The idea that we won that 50+ year long war without firing a shot is just plain wrong. It is a REAL crime that the reality of that war will never come out.

I think one would find that even the move into Iraq was more complicated than the media wants to make it out. Don't believe for ONE SECOND that what you have been told the ENTIRE truth about what went on there, both prior too and after we moved in.

My son and nephew tell a FAR different story about Iraq than you will EVER here on the news. THEY WERE THERE!

 

[Camper]

Korea and Vietnam were "hot periods" in the so called, "Cold War". The idea that we won that 50+ year long war without firing a shot is just plain wrong. It is a REAL crime that the reality of that war will never come out.

I think one would find that even the move into Iraq was more complicated than the media wants to make it out. Don't believe for ONE SECOND that what you have been told the ENTIRE truth about what went on there, both prior too and after we moved in.

My son and nephew tell a FAR different story about Iraq than you will EVER here on the news. THEY WERE THERE!

Be that as it may, those are affairs we had no business ever being involved in, in the first place.

You're right about the media misrepresenting the facts. The thing is they're guilty of misrepresenting them both ways.

The spread of communism(the argument for Korea and Vietnam) was never a threat to us. Iraq was never a serious threat to us either.

A lot of our economic problems can be traced to these international campaigns, we needlessly embarked on, specifically the inflationary cycle we've been on since Vietnam(what a coincidence) and the ending of the Gold Standard.



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[layoutshooter]

Be that as it may, those are affairs we had no business ever being involved in, in the first place.

You're right about the media misrepresenting the facts. The thing is they're guilty of misrepresenting them both ways.

The spread of communism(the argument for Korea and Vietnam) was never a threat to us. Iraq was never a serious threat to us either.

A lot of our economic problems can be traced to these international campaigns, we needlessly embarked on, specifically the inflationary cycle we've been on since Vietnam(what a coincidence) and the ending of the Gold Standard.



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You can believe what ever you want. That is your right. Without knowing the entire story it is very difficult to have an accurate opinion. Peace brother.

 

[Camper]

You can believe what ever you want. That is your right. Without knowing the entire story it is very difficult to have an accurate opinion. Peace brother.

I'm just curious: Based on this information you have that nobody else has what do you think our involvement in Vietnam and Iraq accomplished?



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[layoutshooter]

I'm just curious: Based on this information you have that nobody "else has" what do you think our involvement in Vietnam and Iraq accomplished?



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I don't have any "information" that nobody one else has. I do know more than the everyday person. How? 20 years as an intell agent. Most of which was spent fighting the Soviets in the "Cold War" and some involvement with the Middle East, drug trade and counter-terrorism at the end of my career.

I quit that "business" not long after Clinton was elected. I would not involve myself with the illegal activities his administration was tasking our agency to do. I take any oath I take VERY seriously.

I have learned much about Iraq from my son, and nephew, who fought there. As from many of the vets that I have spent time with who also fought there.

Their stories match up with my experience pretty well. Same with Afghanistan, which I was involved with. As I was in the first move with Iraq. That action was the last MAJOR action that I worked on.

 

[Camper]

I don't have any "information" that nobody one else has. I do know more than the everyday person. How? 20 years as an intell agent. Most of which was spent fighting the Soviets in the "Cold War" and some involvement with the Middle East, drug trade and counter-terrorism at the end of my career.

I quit that "business" not long after Clinton was elected. I would not involve myself with the illegal activities his administration was tasking our agency to do. I take any oath I take VERY seriously.

I have learned much about Iraq from my son, and nephew, who fought there. As from many of the vets that I have spent time with who also fought there.

Their stories match up with my experience pretty well. Same with Afghanistan, which I was involved with. As I was in the first move with Iraq. That action was the last MAJOR action that I worked on.

OK...Fair enough, regarding your background...Based on that, I'm still curious to know what threats to us you think were averted by our involvement in both campaigns(Vietnam and Iraq).



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[layoutshooter]

OK...Fair enough, regarding your background...Based on that, I'm still curious to know what threats to us you think were averted by our involvement in both campaigns(Vietnam and Iraq).



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LOL!! Tell you what, let's save that conversation for a few beers during a "hunker" around a nice bonfire. That is something that very well could take days, several hours for sure!

My only point was that it is difficult to form an accurate opinion on ANY subject if the information that opinion is based on is incomplete.

I am sending you a PM as well.

 

[Camper]

LOL!! Tell you what, let's save that conversation for a few beers during a "hunker" around a nice bonfire. That is something that very well could take days, several hours for sure!

My only point was that it is difficult to form an accurate opinion on ANY subject if the information that opinion is based on is incomplete.

I am sending you a PM as well.

OK, beer is on me..lol




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[layoutshooter]

OK, beer is on me..lol




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Now you are talking!! Nothing like a cold beer, hot fire and a productive hunker to make a good life.

 

[RLENT]

Based on what the original post seems to imply, and what I infer from it ..... it just makes me want to vomit ...... likely rather explosively .....

 

[RLENT]

My only point was that it is difficult to form an accurate opinion on ANY subject if the information that opinion is based on is incomplete.

A premise which sounds really good on its face .... but isn't actually "true" ......

It would be more accurate to say:

It is difficult to form an accurate opinion without possessing at least a certain amount of relevant data necessary to draw a valid conclusion.

The corollary would be:

The possession of all data regarding a situation is not always necessary to render a valid conclusion about the situation, or some aspect of it.

In the context given - the geopolitical actions of multiple nations over a period of years - the simple fact is that no one individual likely "knows" all the data .... therefore incompleteness of data always exists in any given individual. That doesn't certainly prevent people from drawing valid conclusions.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

A premise which sounds really good on its face .... but isn't actually "true" ......

It would be more accurate to say:

It is difficult to form an accurate opinion without possessing at least a certain amount of relevant data necessary to draw a valid conclusion.

The corollary would be:

The possession of all data regarding a situation is not always necessary to render a valid conclusion about the situation, or some aspect of it.

In the context given - the geopolitical actions of multiple nations over a period of years - the simple fact is that no one individual likely "knows" all the data .... therefore incompleteness of data always exists in any given individual. That doesn't certainly prevent people from drawing valid conclusions.

That is not what happens in here...someone draws a valid conclusion based on incomplete data...they get jumped on for just that reason....

 

[golfournut]

Rather than take a cheap shot, try explaining what you think they're accompishing in those pictures that benefit us. I know what you're going to say but It will be comical seeing you try to justify your stance.



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For the record, I see sacrifice, compassion, hope, fear and tragedy to name a few.

EDITED FOR CONTENT>>>BY OVM

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