Soldiers Return

pjjjjj

Veteran Expediter
It's actually the crazy right wing loonies who are picketing your soldiers' funerals, is it not? Isn't it the 'crazy left' that tolerates differences such as homosexuality and abortion?

Any way, the OP was talking about our 'Highway of Heroes', an amazing way our fallen soldiers are honoured on their trip from the CFB in Trenton where their bodies arrive back on Canadian soil, to Toronto where autopsies are done. The funerals themselves are a family affair. It is quite awesome and deeply emotional to see this display of respect at every overpass along the entire 100-mile police-escorted trip. Cars on the highway who are just in transit will stop too sometiimes. It's unbelievably heart wrenching and one time when you can't complain about getting held up in traffic.


YouTube - U.S. Media Tribute to Highway of Heroes

YouTube - Highway of Heroes Tribute
 

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layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
The term "Left and Right" wings are so mis-used anymore. A nut is a nut.

I do wish we would show the respect for our fallen soldiers. You do a much better job up there than we do. Our media should be ashamed of themselfs. They are a true dis-credit to what was once an honored calling. Layoutshooter
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
First, the best way to show respect is to understand what they were fighting for in the first place and to support all of them all the time. It floors me that many don't get the idea of freedom and in reality many don't know that there is a war going on.


The sad thing is, our leadership in our federal government has made it out that our country is so weak that we must do this or that “RIGHT NOW” unless we want to end up with a depression – WHAT A LIE. It is sad that we put so much into one man who has never been able to prove himself with any endeavor. We already forgot 9.11, we don't see anything but the protests (what remains of them) and because our messiah has arrived, we have other things to worry about. We are amazed that we will have a memorial to a man who espoused peace and equality not by the nature of one's skin color but by the character of the person at the same time we elected our first black president. We have our media who lets us focus on the American idol contestants and give awards to undeserving people like Katie Couric. We cry for the journalist who lost their lives while doing nothing for our country at all, the same people who **** our country every chance they get, who undercut the people who are defending it while saying they are world citizens first.


Our country is so strong that we are fighting a way on two fronts and our lives has not been impacted at all as a country. We go along like it was just another day while others put their lives on the line for us.




Ok to answer the question, I'm a classic liberal, I know that sounds weird, but it is something like a libertarian but not.


I believe in the individual, their rights and especially property rights. I also believe that government serves a purpose, a small purpose – this includes protecting the country, regulating things between the states and ensuring uniformed means of conducting business among a few other things (roads). The governments job is not to regulate the stock market, the banks or anything else other than what they are allowed to do. It is not the governments job to have mass transit, regulate the skies or the air waves.


It is simple, I believe in opportunity to succeed or fail on my own accord and to be able to do it the way I want to. With todays government, I can not even approach attempting another success or fail try and only see that the inept and stupid will get more handed to them which makes it worst for all of us in the long run.


Libertarians don't really believe in government, from what I have learned through the years they want to see it eliminated or reduced at least to an ineffective entity, like Ron Paul's idea of no taxes. The hard reality is we need some taxes to run the government and because we don't have the manufacturing base, or an economy to serve as a foundation for that base, we can't depend on tariffs and duties to support the government like we did until 1913.


Also unlike a libertarian, classic liberals seem to believe in responsibility and accountability of the individual when it comes down to how it effects others, drugs and drinking are not freedoms to me – I have seen too many screwed up individuals in my life time to see what freedom does to one who is incapable of understanding the responsibilities of freedom. We seem to also believe in moral responsibilities towards my fellow citizens, which I have proven countless times in my life.


Liberalism of the 19th century (classic liberalism) was one where the government didn't provide help to victims, there was no FEMA and should never be. It produced some of the most effective charity work, citizen helping citizen style of charity without any government intervention. The reality of today is that most of our business structure, and businesses got their starts under the classic liberal ideals of the 19th century. There is no way that we could have the companies like GE, GM, Ford, US Steel, and so on under today's economic conditions. We would never see the innovations we saw in the first half of the century and we would never see the people like Ford, Westinghouse, Durant and others who gave millions to people to help others out. We don't know what it was like during those times, when people actually were parts of communities and cared.


Most of what we know today was started in the late 19th century brought over by the immigrants from Germany and Eastern Europe. The one person who seems to have done a lot when he got into office was TR, not because he thought that government should be all powerful but because he spent time in Europe and was enlighten by the ideals borne out of class warfare over there. TR did some good, not a lot but some by enforcing laws that were passed before he got into office. I don't buy into the standard oil anti-trust suit simply because we have no applied those same laws to companies that have actually caused us economic harm. One thing that TR was ****ed about when Taft got into office was Taft's stopping a lot of progressive legislation from being enacted. When there was a split between Taft and TR, Wilson got in (like Clinton) and this is where we started to redefine liberalism. FDR took it a step further by openly attacking people and their ideals, like Andrew Mellon who he went after with the IRS.


Through the years we have thought of the government as the one who gives us our rights, which is the opposite. History was re-written in the 50's by the teachers who listened to the government experts and today we have people dumb enough to think that the president is the most important person in our government.


Hope that gives you an idea what the differences are and where I am coming from.
 

pjjjjj

Veteran Expediter
..... I also believe that government serves a purpose, a small purpose – this includes protecting the country, regulating things between the states and ensuring uniformed means of conducting business among a few other things (roads). The governments job is not to regulate the stock market, the banks or anything else other than what they are allowed to do. It is not the governments job to have mass transit, regulate the skies or the air waves.

Just out of curiosity, how would you say the government should pay for all these things, like protecting the country, and building and maintaining roads, and the infrastructure that goes beneath them and the environmental studies and impact studies and the workers who do all this work?

And who would you suggest should regulate the skies if not the government?


It is simple, I believe in opportunity to succeed or fail on my own accord and to be able to do it the way I want to. With todays government, I can not even approach attempting another success or fail try and only see that the inept and stupid will get more handed to them which makes it worst for all of us in the long run.

How do you figure you don't have the opportunity to succeed or fail on your own accord?

..... drugs and drinking are not freedoms to me – I have seen too many screwed up individuals in my life time to see what freedom does to one who is incapable of understanding the responsibilities of freedom.

And how would you suggest the government take these freedoms away, the very freedoms you are saying you need.. or are you being picky about which freedoms are necessary and which ones aren't?
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
WOW Greg, I had no idea in the world that I was almost a "Classic Liberal"!!! I agree with about 99% of what you picture. Layoutshooter
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Pjjj I am going to say somethings that will drive some here over the bend and half way back....
You have to understand....one thing....the American way is the ONLY way....everyone else is wrong and their system is perfect...

BUT... It is far from perfect, never was perfect...even the writers of the Constitution knew it wasn't perfect and said so.....Jefferson comes to mind if I am right....
Maybe it is time for "Change" Change the way America does business??
How can OBama be anti Constitutional when even the writers knew "change was inevitable..?

The system doesn't work....Capitolism is a ME enviroment...all about me and what I can get out of the next person....it is competitive to put the next guy down and out....it is greed and corruption at its finest. Build an empire at any cost....and you can see how its all coming about.....
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Oh it works OVM, it is government interference that is most of the problem. There are always "greedy" people, in EVERY system. Obama is as far left as Stalin and he reported over 2 million in income without even having a real job. How greedy can you get? LOL. What a hipocrate he is.
Our way is best for US, here. Others have different beliefs that work where they are. We are being held back. That is causing more problems than Greed. Controlling greed is NOT a government function either. Layoutshooter
 

letzrockexpress

Veteran Expediter
Pjjj I am going to say somethings that will drive some here over the bend and half way back....
You have to understand....one thing....the American way is the ONLY way....everyone else is wrong and their system is perfect...

BUT... It is far from perfect, never was perfect...even the writers of the Constitution knew it wasn't perfect and said so.....Jefferson comes to mind if I am right....
Maybe it is time for "Change" Change the way America does business??
How can OBama be anti Constitutional when even the writers knew "change was inevitable..?

The system doesn't work....Capitolism is a ME enviroment...all about me and what I can get out of the next person....it is competitive to put the next guy down and out....it is greed and corruption at its finest. Build an empire at any cost....and you can see how its all coming about.....

_40612765_michael_moore_ap300.jpg


come to think of it OVM, you kinda look like him...
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Just out of curiosity, how would you say the government should pay for all these things, like protecting the country, and building and maintaining roads, and the infrastructure that goes beneath them and the environmental studies and impact studies and the workers who do all this work?


Taxes, somewhat like the Fair Tax will work. Actually will work very well if we get to the point that the government is doing just what it is supposed to do and nothing more. Our government worked for 143 years before it was all trashed and can work today IF we get away from this idea that the federal government is there to be a provider.

The issue is we have too big of a government which under the constitutional republic will not work for long, we have to either change (serious change) to another system or return to a smaller government. It may be ok if there was a change but not with what ideas are floating around, like removal of the first and second amendment.


As for environmental studies and all that, why should we have them when private property is involved? It is my property, it is mine to do what ever I want to do with but because the federal government has removed my rights to my property, I can not build a road or rail system on it until someone looks into the impact of an animal who may or may not exist?

And who would you suggest should regulate the skies if not the government?


I think it should be the states, just like they do the cars and trucks. There is nothing that the feds really need to do, the states are capable of licensing and regulating their own air space.

How do you figure you don't have the opportunity to succeed or fail on your own accord?


I don't. I have laws that prevent me from walking into a place and offering my services at my own idea of what I should get and the regulations that are imposed on me. My example is what my grandfather did, he bought produce from the farmers and sold it out the back of his car. I checked into what it would take for me to do this without being a farmer, and it is a nightmare.


I live in a closed shop state, if I lived in a right to work state, it would be a bit better but not good enough. The laws were lobbied for to protect the interest of labor, not the people, hence there are less opportunity by default because the labor movement is involved.

And how would you suggest the government take these freedoms away, the very freedoms you are saying you need.. or are you being picky about which freedoms are necessary and which ones aren't?


As I mentioned, I can not walk into a business and offer my services at a wage I want, there are laws preventing me from that. The same goes with my insurance which I can not barter with the insurance company, the EPA has deemed a life chemical as harmful to peoples health which means I can not use my tools (vehicles) to make money as I see fit and so on.


The system doesn't work....Capitolism is a ME enviroment...all about me and what I can get out of the next person....it is competitive to put the next guy down and out....it is greed and corruption at its finest. Build an empire at any cost....and you can see how its all coming about.....
The problem OVM is that capitalism works when it is unhindered. We never in our lives lived under those rules, there had been a redefining of what capitalism is and the ME generation (the hippies, you know the 60's man) actually helped change this all around. They were the ones who in the 80's became the greedy people, they joined the establishment, the same one they preached ruined the country and the world and became rich doing so. I don't see too many former flower children actually helping others out, it seems more my generation who was at the end of that mess that made more strides in removing the ME out of the ME generation. I do blame the 60's people for the screwup of my country, without them life would be so much better.
 
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