Sleepers, legal ?'s

[ATCO]

Guys, mind you, I'm sure this is a discussion that may have been discused if not at least in other topics...

What are the laws that pretain to sleepers. in depth;
Can you have a non-DOT sleeper?
So long as the vehicle doesn't move while the sleeper is occupied?
What makes a sleeper DOT approved?
Is there a difference on the laws pretaining to sleepers with, Intrastate Vs. Interstate?
Can a Crewcab's back seat area be arranged into a sleeper (not so much can it or not, but legaly or not)? Read: F650/GMC 6500's?
What are the penalties failing to comply?
Who checks the legality of a sleeper?

Ok in addition,

Is it legal to occupy the sleeper in any public place? (ie. Parking Lots, Truck Stops, well off the Shoulder of a Road)
Been reading about idling laws, if anyone wants to comment on that, please do so as well, to bring attention to it.


Many Thanks in Advance, hopefully this topic will be the goto on sleeper help...
-Joe Bohannon
Bakersfield, CA
(New B, Researching)

 

[terryandrene]

Joe: Here's the short answer:-]

TITLE 49--TRANSPORTATION

CHAPTER III--FEDERAL MOTOR CARRIER SAFETY ADMINISTRATION,
DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION

PART 393--PARTS AND ACCESSORIES NECESSARY FOR SAFE OPERATION--Table of Contents

Subpart G--Miscellaneous Parts and Accessories

Sec. 393.76 Sleeper berths.

(a) Dimensions--(1) Size. A sleeper berth must be at least the
following size:

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Width Height
Length measured measured
measured on on from
Date of installation on motor centerline centerline highest
vehicle of of point of
longitudinal transverse top of
axis axis mattress
(inches) (inches) (inches)\1\
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Before January 1, 1953........... 72 18 18
After December 31, 1952, and 75 21 21
before October 1, 1975..........
After September 30, 1975......... 75 24 24
------------------------------------------------------------------------
\1\ In the case of a sleeper berth which utilizes an adjustable
mechanical suspension system, the required clearance can be measured
when the suspension system is adjusted to the height to which it would
settle when occupied by a driver.

(2) Shape. A sleeper berth installed on a motor vehicle on or after
January 1, 1953 must be of generally rectangular shape, except that the
horizontal corners and the roof corners may be rounded to radii not
exceeding 10\1/2\ inches.
(3) Access. A sleeper berth must be constructed so that an
occupant's ready entrance to, and exit from, the sleeper berth is not
unduly hindered.
(b) Location. (1) A sleeper berth must not be installed in or on a
semitrailer or a full trailer other than a house trailer.
(2) A sleeper berth located within the cargo space of a motor
vehicle must be securely compartmentalized from the

[[Page 1034]]

remainder of the cargo space. A sleeper berth installed on or after
January 1, 1953 must be located in the cab or immediately adjacent to
the cab and must be securely fixed with relation to the cab.
(c) Exit from the berth. (1) Except as provided in paragraph (c)(2)
of this section, there must be a direct and ready means of exit from a
sleeper berth into the driver's seat or compartment. If the sleeper
berth was installed on or after January 1, 1963, the exit must be a
doorway or opening at least 18 inches high and 36 inches wide. If the
sleeper berth was installed before January 1, 1963, the exit must have
sufficient area to contain an ellipse having a major axis of 24 inches
and a minor axis of 16 inches.
(2) A sleeper berth installed before January 1, 1953 must either:
(i) Conform to the requirements of paragraph (c)(1) of this section;
or
(ii) Have at least two exits, each of which is at least 18 inches
high and 21 inches wide, located at opposite ends of the vehicle and
useable by the occupant without the assistance of any other person.
(d) Communication with the driver. A sleeper berth which is not
located within the driver's compartment and has no direct entrance into
the driver's compartment must be equipped with a means of communication
between the occupant and the driver. The means of communication may
consist of a telephone, speaker tube, buzzer, pull cord, or other
mechanical or electrical device.
(e) Equipment. A sleeper berth must be properly equipped for
sleeping. Its equipment must include:
(1) Adequate bedclothing and blankets; and
(2) Either:
(i) Springs and a mattress; or
(ii) An innerspring mattress; or
(iii) A cellular rubber or flexible foam mattress at least four
inches thick; or
(iv) A mattress filled with a fluid and of sufficient thickness when
filled to prevent ``bottoming-out'' when occupied while the vehicle is
in motion.
(f) Ventilation. A sleeper berth must have louvers or other means of
providing adequate ventilation. A sleeper berth must be reasonably tight
against dust and rain.
(g) Protection against exhaust and fuel leaks and exhaust heat. A
sleeper berth must be located so that leaks in the vehicle's exhaust
system or fuel system do not permit fuel, fuel system gases, or exhaust
gases to enter the sleeper berth. A sleeper berth must be located so
that it will not be overheated or damaged by reason of its proximity to
the vehicle's exhaust system.
(h) Occupant restraint. A motor vehicle manufactured on or after
July 1, 1971, and equipped with a sleeper berth must be equipped with a
means of preventing ejection of the occupant of the sleeper berth during
deceleration of the vehicle. The restraint system must be designed,
installed, and maintained to withstand a minimum total force of 6,000
pounds applied toward the front of the vehicle and parallel to the
longitudinal axis of the vehicle.

[39 FR 14711, Apr. 26, 1974; 39 FR 17233, May 14, 1974, as amended at 53
FR 49401, Dec. 7, 1988]

 

[Twmaster]

>Joe: Here's the short answer:-]
>
> TITLE 49--TRANSPORTATION
>
> CHAPTER III--FEDERAL MOTOR CARRIER SAFETY
>ADMINISTRATION,
> DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION
>
>PART 393--PARTS AND ACCESSORIES NECESSARY FOR SAFE
>OPERATION--Table of Contents
>
> Subpart G--Miscellaneous Parts and Accessories
>
>Sec. 393.76 Sleeper berths.
>
> (a) Dimensions--(1) Size. A sleeper berth must be at
>least the
>following size:
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Width
> Height
> Length measured
> measured
> measured on on
> from
> Date of installation on motor centerline centerline
> highest
> vehicle of of
> point of
> longitudinal transverse
> top of
> axis axis
> mattress
> (inches) (inches)
>(inches)\1\
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Before January 1, 1953........... 72 18
> 18
>After December 31, 1952, and 75 21
> 21
> before October 1, 1975..........
>After September 30, 1975......... 75 24
> 24
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>\1\ In the case of a sleeper berth which utilizes an
>adjustable
> mechanical suspension system, the required clearance can
>be measured
> when the suspension system is adjusted to the height to
>which it would
> settle when occupied by a driver.
>
> (2) Shape. A sleeper berth installed on a motor vehicle
>on or after
>January 1, 1953 must be of generally rectangular shape,
>except that the
>horizontal corners and the roof corners may be rounded to
>radii not
>exceeding 10\1/2\ inches.
> (3) Access. A sleeper berth must be constructed so that
>an
>occupant's ready entrance to, and exit from, the sleeper
>berth is not
>unduly hindered.
> (b) Location. (1) A sleeper berth must not be installed
>in or on a
>semitrailer or a full trailer other than a house trailer.
> (2) A sleeper berth located within the cargo space of a
>motor
>vehicle must be securely compartmentalized from the
>
>[[Page 1034]]
>
>remainder of the cargo space. A sleeper berth installed on
>or after
>January 1, 1953 must be located in the cab or immediately
>adjacent to
>the cab and must be securely fixed with relation to the cab.
> (c) Exit from the berth. (1) Except as provided in
>paragraph (c)(2)
>of this section, there must be a direct and ready means of
>exit from a
>sleeper berth into the driver's seat or compartment. If the
>sleeper
>berth was installed on or after January 1, 1963, the exit
>must be a
>doorway or opening at least 18 inches high and 36 inches
>wide. If the
>sleeper berth was installed before January 1, 1963, the exit
>must have
>sufficient area to contain an ellipse having a major axis of
>24 inches
>and a minor axis of 16 inches.
> (2) A sleeper berth installed before January 1, 1953
>must either:
> (i) Conform to the requirements of paragraph (c)(1) of
>this section;
>or
> (ii) Have at least two exits, each of which is at least
>18 inches
>high and 21 inches wide, located at opposite ends of the
>vehicle and
>useable by the occupant without the assistance of any other
>person.
> (d) Communication with the driver. A sleeper berth which
>is not
>located within the driver's compartment and has no direct
>entrance into
>the driver's compartment must be equipped with a means of
>communication
>between the occupant and the driver. The means of
>communication may
>consist of a telephone, speaker tube, buzzer, pull cord, or
>other
>mechanical or electrical device.
> (e) Equipment. A sleeper berth must be properly equipped
>for
>sleeping. Its equipment must include:
> (1) Adequate bedclothing and blankets; and
> (2) Either:
> (i) Springs and a mattress; or
> (ii) An innerspring mattress; or
> (iii) A cellular rubber or flexible foam mattress at
>least four
>inches thick; or
> (iv) A mattress filled with a fluid and of sufficient
>thickness when
>filled to prevent ``bottoming-out'' when occupied while the
>vehicle is
>in motion.
> (f) Ventilation. A sleeper berth must have louvers or
>other means of
>providing adequate ventilation. A sleeper berth must be
>reasonably tight
>against dust and rain.
> (g) Protection against exhaust and fuel leaks and
>exhaust heat. A
>sleeper berth must be located so that leaks in the vehicle's
>exhaust
>system or fuel system do not permit fuel, fuel system gases,
>or exhaust
>gases to enter the sleeper berth. A sleeper berth must be
>located so
>that it will not be overheated or damaged by reason of its
>proximity to
>the vehicle's exhaust system.
> (h) Occupant restraint. A motor vehicle manufactured on
>or after
>July 1, 1971, and equipped with a sleeper berth must be
>equipped with a
>means of preventing ejection of the occupant of the sleeper
>berth during
>deceleration of the vehicle. The restraint system must be
>designed,
>installed, and maintained to withstand a minimum total force
>of 6,000
>pounds applied toward the front of the vehicle and parallel
>to the
>longitudinal axis of the vehicle.
>
>[39 FR 14711, Apr. 26, 1974; 39 FR 17233, May 14, 1974, as
>amended at 53
>FR 49401, Dec. 7, 1988]

English please? I don't speak beaurucratese!

--
Mike N

Faster than a speeding poulet.

Owner/Operator Big 'B'
Experienced
10 years auto transport
2 years local/distance expedite
Laurel, MD (Washington DC area)

 

[ATCO]

lol, English please...

That is some very useful info, however it speaks volums about it being occupied while the vehicle is in motion. So what if it isn't used while it's in motion, or it one of those things like it's there, therefore it could be used as...? BTW, I currently own a 60" Kenworth Aerodyne II Sleeper (off a T600).

-Joe Bohannon
Bakersfield, CA
(New B, Researching)

 

[Crazynuff]

Thanks for that info I have done numerous searches on the web trying to find that info and never found it . Uh oh . My interpetation is that not only crew cabs but cargo vans and cube vans can't possibly meet the standards . Some states such as IA make it a point to enforce these regulations . I know carriers that contract o/o's with crew cabs will not allow them to log any sleeper time unless they have had a DOT approved sleeper installed .

 

[terryandrene]

Sorry about the "tough to read" regs. Here's the link"

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rulesregs/fmcsr/regs/393.76.htm

 

[ATCO]

> Uh oh . My interpetation is that not only crew cabs but cargo vans
>and cube vans can't possibly meet the standards .

Crazynuff, How I read it, and what I'll focus on is;

(2) A sleeper berth located within the cargo space of a motor
vehicle must be securely compartmentalized from the remainder of the cargo space. A sleeper berth installed on or after January 1, 1953 must be located in the cab or immediately adjacent to the cab and must be securely fixed with relation to the cab.

Wouldn't this mean, that so long as it has a "load Bearing" wall, it would create a 'compartmentalized' area. In addition, the sleeper would have to be located directly behind the cab, I read it to mean, it cannot be located anywhere else on the vehicle (ie. isolated at the rear of the vehicle?). Ok, 'Securely fixed', well the best example is a cube with it's cutaway cab, as to keep it weather tight would have to be securely attached? The key here is DOT approved.

Now for another question, can you get a intrigrated/built-in sleeper approved by the DOT (via, inspection)?

anyways, these are just ->ideas<- on how the statements can be interperted, I am no way a DOT official.

-Joe Bohannon
Bakersfield, CA
(New B, Researching)

 

[RichM]

Years ago you could have a sleeper built into the front of the box as long as you had acsses from the cab.However the DOT Rule then was that the rear wall of the sleeper had to withstand a 6,000 pound impact. Don't know if this rule is still valid.Roberts had a female driver killed in an accident where some heavy cargo was put on the rear of the box,not secured,the truck slammed into a bridge,the cargo came forward at 60 mph,went through the wall and killed the lady.Turned out all that they had was some 2x4,s and plywood for the back wall.After that they no longer approved box sleepers.

RichM
Owner/Operator
Professional
18 years

 

[Preacher]

The short of it is this; If you are over 10,000gvwr your sleeper has to be 75"x24"x24". It has to be separate from the cargo area and easily accessable from the cab area. The sleeper also must have proper ventilation and an emergency exit door. You must also have an inner spring matress or 4" foam mattress along with proper covers and bed sheets. You cannot use the rear seat of a crew cab unless it meets the requirements stated above. Freightliner FL70 & up with extra cab or crew cab are legal size and are legal to use if outfitted with a mattress and bedding. I had a friend who purchased a new 2004 GMC 4500 series crew cab. He was told by the dealer that the rear crew cab area qualified as a sleeper. When DOT did an inspection, the rear area was 74 3/4", just 1/4" shy of the legal measurement. They immediately put him out of service, made him get a cab and go to a motel. They told him that he could no longer use his crew cab as a sleeper and that he better have motel receipts for any nights spent on the road. If he didn't, they would assume that he was sleeping in his cab and shut him down! Needless to say, he is suing GM and the dealer over it.

I drive a crew cab Ford F-350 hotshot rig. I log my 10 hours down time as off duty instead of sleeper berth. I have not been asked to produce motel receipts yet by DOT, but I'm sure it WILL happen. I try to stay at the cheapest motels I can and make sure I get a receipt. Next rig I get WILL have a sleeper. For right now I have to drive the F-350.

 

[terryandrene]

Preacher: Can you find the dims by removing door panels if you only need an inch or so. A custom made mattress might be the cat's meow.

We had custom mattresses made in one day, while we waited, by "The Mattress Factory" on State road in Cleveland, Oh. any shape, size or thickness; foam or spring. Probably are plenty of places elsewhere that provide the same service.

 

[ATCO]

Could be an interesting market for After market doors with a bulge to create more than enough width (read 75"? or 6' 3"). I'm sure the door itself could function as an emergency exit, but if you are creating a new door, you could make one more like traditional sleepers with the higher door large enough to exit from, while on the bed. A door located below could function a misc. tool box (under the bed in the cab)... Just thinking aloud again (or is it a-write, eh oh well). Some one call Alumi-Bunk, have I got a new idea for you!


-Joe Bohannon
Bakersfield, CA
(New B, Researching)

 

[terryandrene]

Joe: I like your idea. Preacher could borrow a couple of those ratchet load bars (I'll bet he does not have any) and ratchet out a legal bulge

 

[Preacher]

I also thought of aftermarket rear crew cab doors that had a bulge in them to meet the DOT sleeper requirements. Perhaps fiberglass with no windows that utilize the existing hinges and latches. I could take out the back seat and put in a mattress. There could be a market for it. It could probably be done for less than a couple of grand. Add a drop down LCD TV and I'd have it made! Of course the ratcheting load bar idea would be alot cheaper!

 

[ATCO]

LOL,
I don't see any reason the doors couldn't be fabricated, thats for sure, and affordably even... I could go down to wrecking yard and make ya a "Prototype" Preacher... :-D

Like you said, uses the same latches and hinges (hardware). BTW, I own a 1993 F250HD, nice truck, been good to me. Unfortionatly it's just an extended cab, so I couldn't fab up on it. In referance to the windows, I also figured if I did make a crewcab into a sleeper, i'd take the glass out of the back, and use the glass as a template for some sheet metal replacements (same thickness)... Leave everything else alone, and now you have a roll down vent...
I'll see if I can't make up a drawing of this new 'Sleeper' door.

well anyways, just wanted to LOL the loadbars, ended up adding to it...

-Joe Bohannon
Bakersfield, CA
(New B, Researching)

 

[ATCO]

http://www.atcotransportation.com/images/sleeperdoor.jpg

-Joe Bohannon
Bakersfield, CA
(New B, Researching)

 

[Crazynuff]

I have a crew cab and like Preacher I log off duty and have never been questioned . ( I also have OOIDA decals on the truck . ) I had been curious about the GMC 5500 because it looked good enough to me . Dodge will be making the rear seat of their crew cabs larger with the rear door the same size as the front door . I was thinking if they took that wb and used a regular cab with no back panel they could come up with a real nice walk in sleeper that would be popular with hotshotters like Preacher and RV transporters . Daimler Chrysler probably won't do it because it would eat into the FL market . That's why Dodge doesn't make anything larger than a 1 ton . It's a shame because the Cummins Turbo is a great engine . The FL series came out when Mercedes bought Freightliner . They figured a truck with a Freightliner nameplate would sell better than the Mercedes trucks they stopped marketing in the U.S. after that . The Mercedes was a great truck though . I bought a used one from Ryder to put a mobile wash unit in .

 

[Preacher]

WOW Joe! That is awesome! Could you send both the left and right doors down to me here in Tulsa by Saturday? I have a run up to Columbus, Ohio on Monday and they sure would come in handy! LOL!


Crazynuff, The GMC 5500 series uses the same body as the 4500 and the back is not big enough to qualify as a sleeper. I think it would be pretty cool if Ford or Dodge would do a cutaway 1-ton. The best you can do in the meantime is buy a cab and chassis and cut a hole on the back of the cab and add a small 24-36 inch sleeper. I just saw a 36" sleeper on ebay last night going for aroung $300. My problem is that I have a crew cab with a flatbed that has a big integrated headache rack. I really like Joe's concept. That would be the most simple way to go in my situation. I might talk to a ASI here in Tulsa. They make custom sleepers. They might be willing to use me as a prototype and let me be their advertising to all the other hotshotters I run into.

 

[ATCO]

>Daimler Chrysler probably won't do it because it would eat into the
>FL market . That's why Dodge doesn't make anything larger
>than a 1 ton .

Hmmmm, ok then, this must be a freightliner then
http://www.atcotransportation.com/images/RamCommercial.JPG

Ok, this commercial Dodge Ram is only available in Mexico (that i am aware of). It is most likelly do to the fact Dodge builds the Rams in Mexico City (once again, that I am aware of). I was once pretty far into Mexico on a Mission Trip, and so a great many Dump Truck Dodge Rams, built like this one. This one was seen in El Paso, TX this past June (04). The truck is from Mexico.

-Joe Bohannon
Bakersfield, CA
(New B, Researching)

 

[ATCO]

Preacher, I'm serious, I think I could build the doors for you. You'd just have to get a load to California to pick them up. Eh, you wouldn't want to come to "Sunny" California would you? (Should I ask when your in Fargo again?)

-Joe Bohannon
Bakersfield, CA
(New B, Researching)

 

[Preacher]

Joe, I would definately be interested. I don't know if or when I'll next get a load out to California. If you would like, send me a private message with your ph.# and I'll call you.