Should you run for Multiple Carriers? Read this first!
- Thread starter Lawrence
- Start date
ebsprintin
Veteran Expediter
this blog series needs to be "stickied" somewhere.
eb
eb
Contingent coverage MIGHT cover it. But not when the carrier does in knowingly. Also contingent coverages are not cheap so many carriers do not have them. They would also question covering the loss as carrier did not do proper diligence.
BigBadBill
Active Expediter
When I first learned of this model, as a business person that is fascinated with different business models, I talked to a lot of people that have this model. It is stunning the number that do not have anything in place to make sure that the insurance is in place outside of being on the certificate. That is worthless, in my opinion. Nothing less than being a named insured on the policy and making sure that you have been given permission to speak with agent about the insured account at any time.
It was also amazing the number of companies that perform no background check for cargo vans and sprinters. Not even run an MVR. It was like if they where willing to sign a contract then everything was good. Why not perform the same qualification you would on a TT driver? Drug tests, background checks, on-going monitoring. Just because it is not required shouldn't keep someone from doing it.
I expected that a couple would be out side the box and taking big risks. But almost half that I spoke with would fall on the "bad" side. That was stunning to me. And I have my list, and while we don't have a huge brokerage, I will never book a load with one of these companies.
But I don't agree that these are the companies that are driving freight rates down. If I remember all the contracts classes that I took, you need two parties for a valid contract. So you have to have someone on the other side accepting the bid. Just because a bid is low doesn't mean a company has to accept it. They are actually the ones with the control and not the bidder.
And how many of these companies have freight? Of the companies with this model that fall on the "bad" side, I can't recall one of them mentioning they had direct accounts. That would be the place that they would be having an effect on freight rates. Not bidding off of scraps from Sylectus.
It was also amazing the number of companies that perform no background check for cargo vans and sprinters. Not even run an MVR. It was like if they where willing to sign a contract then everything was good. Why not perform the same qualification you would on a TT driver? Drug tests, background checks, on-going monitoring. Just because it is not required shouldn't keep someone from doing it.
I expected that a couple would be out side the box and taking big risks. But almost half that I spoke with would fall on the "bad" side. That was stunning to me. And I have my list, and while we don't have a huge brokerage, I will never book a load with one of these companies.
But I don't agree that these are the companies that are driving freight rates down. If I remember all the contracts classes that I took, you need two parties for a valid contract. So you have to have someone on the other side accepting the bid. Just because a bid is low doesn't mean a company has to accept it. They are actually the ones with the control and not the bidder.
And how many of these companies have freight? Of the companies with this model that fall on the "bad" side, I can't recall one of them mentioning they had direct accounts. That would be the place that they would be having an effect on freight rates. Not bidding off of scraps from Sylectus.
BigBadBill
Active Expediter
My contingent coverage would not cover it if we brokered a load knowing that someone didn't have coverage. And in the multi model the freight is not brokered. So not only would my carrier coverage not apply because the unit in question is not covered but contingent doesn't even come into play.
To add to an earlier statement from John regarding fraud and what I was saying in my previous post. When I was recently contacted by the owner of one of these "bad" carriers about us brokering them freight. I was very direct why it would never happen (but polite). We talked about how he was hoping to get approved by GM via LSCS (who they are not approved for). When I asked him about the higher limits with LS and GM. He told me because they really didn't need those levels it was just lawyer paranoia so it really didn't matter. If he got approved and hauls a load THAT IS FRAUD in my (and I am sure Johns) opinion.
So all of the Multi-Carriers out there (of which quite a few of them are TEANA members) are only requiring their O/O's to carry 1 Million Liability and 100k Cargo Inaurance while running GM and Ford loads are all "the uglies?" I know Whirlwind Express only required 1 Million and 100k Cargo and they were moving a lot of GM and Ford loads. I know of quite a few companies who are misrepresenting themselves in this fashion and have been doing so for many years without recourse. I'm mot trying to get everyones panties in a bunch here, but we already know who the bad carriers are, why not talk about the bad carriers? Why not start cleaning house today?
With that being said I do agree that the bigger companies need to be more cautious about who they partner carrier with. A lot ot the smaller multi-carrier companies don't even make you sign a 1 page contract and they are so desperate to sign on new drivers they will hire just about anyone. A lot of the drivers I've run across that are running for multiple carriers wouldn't be able to get a job at one of the bigger more reputable carriers. But I guess when that cheap rate comes across the emails to one of the dispatchers at one of the bigger carriers, all common sense goes right out the window as it is replaced by price. If carriers are cutting the rates for their drivers and they don't seem to care whether or not their own O/O's can maintain their own equipment, why would they stop using "the uglies" when they are getting their freight moved at rock bottom prices? Just some food for thought!
With that being said I do agree that the bigger companies need to be more cautious about who they partner carrier with. A lot ot the smaller multi-carrier companies don't even make you sign a 1 page contract and they are so desperate to sign on new drivers they will hire just about anyone. A lot of the drivers I've run across that are running for multiple carriers wouldn't be able to get a job at one of the bigger more reputable carriers. But I guess when that cheap rate comes across the emails to one of the dispatchers at one of the bigger carriers, all common sense goes right out the window as it is replaced by price. If carriers are cutting the rates for their drivers and they don't seem to care whether or not their own O/O's can maintain their own equipment, why would they stop using "the uglies" when they are getting their freight moved at rock bottom prices? Just some food for thought!
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SugarPlum
Active Expediter
OMG!!!! Do you guys actually hear yourselves? (or most of the people here are big company owners that forgot how it is for the lonely O/O struggling to survive) I understand the Multi model, I have done that sometimes with 7 companies at the time, so I could survive. (I am insured with CIS, BTW) But everyone is saying that you actually make 'decent money' and profit??? REALLY, people? You talk about the 'bottom feeders'.......not that I am trying to condone cutting corners and not having coverage.......To ME safety is more important............but THINK about this a little.........a lot of O/O are barely making ends meet and running their asses off. Have you guys ever heard the saying "DON'T JUDGE ME UNTIL YOU HAVE WALKED A MILE IN MY SHOES"!!!...... Let's not talk about all the other expenses besides fuel and food. I agree with some of this article, that people try to take shortcuts and those are the ones giving the rest of us a bad name. BUT (and that's a BIG but) what are the O/O supposed to do, when they get 80/60 cents/mile? The insurance goes up and fuel does the same.......How do you support a family? You barely make enough to pay for your on the road expenses. As a driver you are on the road 2-4 weeks at a time to try and survive, you have no medical insurance (because it's too expensive and can't afford it, then comes the rent/mortgage, van/sprinter payment, other bills); by the time you add them all up you are in the negative earnings. Sooooo.....WHAT DO YOU DO? You are forced to cut corners in order to survive and feed your family. The company you sign on with gives you 1-2 runs per week at 60/80 cents/mile (or less) and sometimes not even that, you sit for 3-7 days. PLEASE, PLEASE explain to me how you can get your head out of the water. So after all this I wonder who is at fault?.........The 'bottom feeders' OR the insurance companies and other 'Bigger Carriers'. I do not want to put anyone down, my intention is to raise awareness regarding this issue and get you guys to think about the other side also.
If you can't pay the bills then it's time to get another job. I made more money with 1 carrier than I ever made in the multi-carrier model (hands down)! You can talk it up all you like, but the multi-carrier model is not a good way to do business. I can't tell you how many times three and four companies are bidding on the same load and driving down the price.
I agree. I also like the percentage model vs fixed rate model in our business as I think it helps keep the owner operator more on par with market conditions. Shared pain and shared gain. I think it reflects well in the company and owner operator in a partnership. While I am probably one of the big company CEO's referred too, I started as a fleet owner with one rented truck. I understand me have lived both sides of the equation.
Should really get out of our business if you are going to run that cheap... And cut corners.
I think you are looking at two different issues. The ones that run cheap because they have lower costs (ex. running with no or limited insurance) and the ones that simply are clueless as to what their costs are to operate. Gotta get them "miles" whether they are making anything or not.
Then you have the carriers that continue to exploit that concept.
As far as a percentage vs miles, we do both and there are pluses and minuses to both.
Then you have the carriers that continue to exploit that concept.
As far as a percentage vs miles, we do both and there are pluses and minuses to both.
Sugar Plum: if you think it's tough to survive now, [and I know it is], how much harder would it be if you were sued over an accident, and your insurance refused to cover you? Because you [or a dishonest carrier] tried to 'cut corners' by misrepresenting their actual insurance needs, and got away with it - till the lawyers get involved.
That's when it goes from tough to impossible. If you're willing to roll the dice, that's your call, but it should be an informed decision, at least.
That's when it goes from tough to impossible. If you're willing to roll the dice, that's your call, but it should be an informed decision, at least.
BigBadBill
Active Expediter
Sugarplum,
Just about every business is going to have minimum standards. This one is no different. Unless there is something keeping you from running for a reputable carrier (s), I would be looking long and hard at a change.
John, you need to promote that you are percentage. I would have sworn you guys ran mileage. I applaud that and agree with your statement 100%. Mileage pay hurts drivers more than they will ever know. Nothing more frustrating to have short mile load paying on long miles to be told the driver wants more miles. Percentage drivers will fight for these loads. Just hard o find companies that pay that way.
Just about every business is going to have minimum standards. This one is no different. Unless there is something keeping you from running for a reputable carrier (s), I would be looking long and hard at a change.
John, you need to promote that you are percentage. I would have sworn you guys ran mileage. I applaud that and agree with your statement 100%. Mileage pay hurts drivers more than they will ever know. Nothing more frustrating to have short mile load paying on long miles to be told the driver wants more miles. Percentage drivers will fight for these loads. Just hard o find companies that pay that way.
SugarPlum
Active Expediter
cheri1122: I am not willing to 'roll the dice' as you put it.......I have insurance ( the full 9 yards that FMCSA requires) and I do NOT cut corners on that. Like I said before.....Safety is very important. I do things the right way, the way they are supposed to be done; and believe me it's not easy with the costs these days. I'm just saying that you can't judge people unless you know their situation. And it is not very nice to call people 'bottom feeders'. My point is that insurance goes up, fuel goes up and the prices we get paid get less.
SugarPlum
Active Expediter
Bill, nothing is keeping me from running for a reputable carrier. I have the right insurance and I do not have ANY tickets not even for parking (for more than 17 years). The problem is FINDING the right carrier that is willing to treat you like a human being and not trying to strip you to the bone. I am saying that you believe all the hoopla you're fed when you sign on, that turns out to be BS. You are getting paid 80% (Really? in whose dreamworld?), you're going to run your business anyway you want since you're the o/o. But god forbid you refuse a load that is not beneficial to you and you can say ADIOS to getting another run for that week and maybe the next. This has happened with more than one company and some want you to run for them without paying you for 30 days (which in my case turned out to be over 90 days) then when you ask for the money you earned they stop answering your calls......etc......
SugarPlum
Active Expediter
John: I do not mean to be rude, but this has been my experience; besides most people when they get to the top tend to forget how it is for the O/O. I guess money changes you. Plus, I have dealt with bigger companies that lie through their teeth. All the paperwork promising great things mean nothing when it comes down to it.
Actually, deviating from the subject a little, one of the companies that are on Stylectus and Teana did not pay their drivers. These sites are so 'select' , a lowly O/O can't even touch their load board to at least try and get their own loads. Sooooo, setting high untouchable standards are not always effective.
Actually, deviating from the subject a little, one of the companies that are on Stylectus and Teana did not pay their drivers. These sites are so 'select' , a lowly O/O can't even touch their load board to at least try and get their own loads. Sooooo, setting high untouchable standards are not always effective.
What reputable carrier makes you wait for 30 days to get paid? Panther, Fedex? I'm curious.
SugarPlum
Active Expediter
OHHHH....blizzard.......PLEASE.....Get off your high horse and smell the coffee. How many years ago was that??? I made money with Roberts Express over 20 years ago too when the expedite business just started taking off. We are talking about NOW and what is going on now. You work for a company that gives you 1 load per week or 1 per 2 weeks. Go ahead and survive on that ( which will probably be $200 a week or less, especially after the company takes all the pumped up charges for various things.
And you shouldn't work for more companies because of the bidding war????
REALLY???? Are you actually serious?
Get another job? Where? You have any available? Are YOU going to hire me? I have a BSM degree......Have you been out there looking for a job? After you go out job hunting, let me know how well you do.
And you shouldn't work for more companies because of the bidding war????
REALLY???? Are you actually serious?
Get another job? Where? You have any available? Are YOU going to hire me? I have a BSM degree......Have you been out there looking for a job? After you go out job hunting, let me know how well you do.