Shame on congress and Obama!!!!

[layoutshooter]

First off, I don't know about the vet's you know who do nothing, I see totally different. Maybe you just have met the wrong people.

Second, it does NOT matter how or why we got into this mess, active military should be paid, their lives are on the line. Disabled vets injured in the line of duty should be paid, their lives were on the line. There are military families who's loved ones are in harms way right now who will NOT be able to feed their families. IF their loved ones are KILLED their families will NOT receive their death benefits. Then, when they leave the service when their enlistments are up people will say that they have NO dedication.

Write the "3 Stooges"? What a laugh. I write them all the time. I would accomplish more if a spit up a rope while standing on my head. They ARE the problem, I did NOT vote for them nor would I.

 

[greg334]

First off, I don't know about the vet's you know who do nothing, I see totally different. Maybe you just have met the wrong people.

I don't know about that, many who I met seemed to think the same way.

Second, it does NOT matter how or why we got into this mess, active military should be paid, their lives are on the line. Disabled vets injured in the line of duty should be paid, their lives were on the line. There are military families who's loved ones are in harms way right now who will NOT be able to feed their families. IF their loved ones are KILLED their families will NOT receive their death benefits. Then, when they leave the service when their enlistments are up people will say that they have NO dedication.

Well sorry Joe, but it does matter, it matter a whole bunch ... more than delayed payments to people government service. You may not understand the real issue but if this is glossed over by everyone with the focus on the little things, the real problem will not be solved at all and this will happen again.

The benefits will be paid, it may be a week late or 14 days late but crap joe, it is better than the alternative - not having the money to do anything because our country comes to a halt due to a true collapse of it.

Much of what you and others are yelling about seems to be fueling the entire scare tactics of the media and the dems, the world will stop.

I also hate to break the news to you, but DELAYED death benefits are not the most important thing to worry about. Any delay will most likely be alright with anyone who lost someone, it would be with me, not thinking about the money but the loss.

Write the "3 Stooges"? What a laugh. I write them all the time. I would accomplish more if a spit up a rope while standing on my head. They ARE the problem, I did NOT vote for them nor would I.

Actually I'm serious. I have written and called and have gotten to talk about these issues with staff of my three. It seems to prove my point though, even IF you feel it doesn't accomplish much, if more people would, it would get noticed. THIS is how things do actually change. What do you think happened with Obama, the VA and the mental health issues? It wasn't just a lone person calling but families who has to deal with these issues with PTSD and a lack of medical treatment.

one last thing, I think we need to start putting things in perspective with the idea about what are threats to this country. I mean Libya is not a threat and neither are the Soviets, so what are we doing putting people in harms way with this stuff?

 

[layoutshooter]

I understand what you are saying. I don't totally disagree either.

By the way, my nephew and his friends say the exact opposite about what older vets are doing. It just may be a matter of who you talk to and the outcome they received.

I understand what you are saying. I don't totally disagree either. I write the "3 Stooges" all the time. Even speak with Dingell once in a while in person. I hunt with some of his staff members. I stay in contact because it is my responsibility to do so, BUT, I get far more done when I go down to the Home Depot and talk to the wallboard.

We have NO business in Libya. Won't get an argument out of me there. I think that Korea, and Japan, SHOULD be doing more. Japan has a constitutional problem. I am not sure just how much they can do within their constitution. Germany is NOT carrying their weight.

We need to rethink who we fight, where we fight and when. I do NOT agree with Ron Paul, his isolationist views have NEVER kept us out of prior conflicts. I also don't agree with much of what I see today either.

 

[Falligator]

About time congress came together for something!

Posted with my Droid EO Forum App

 

[greg334]

Layout,
I somewhat see that but compared to say the environmentalist or as you are involved, DU, there isn't a mass movement that there should be if this is a serious issue. I wouldn't be critical and it is the citizen who has the right to be because of the complaining and the issue of not being involved as a former or active military person. These issues won't go away until there is a solid front to it.

Speaking of Dingel or his staff, you don't talk to them at an event, but rather set up times to talk to them with more than one person. You could put efforts into another cause like you do your DU cause, which seems as important. This is how things start. Using their (liberal) tactics in non-confrontational moments to expose the issues may be a good thing - you know liberals are good for something.

Japan can redo their constitution and we can all renegotiate the treaty with Japan or at least get paid for it. Germany does not have that clause in the treaty, they have an offensive army, they are part of NATO and they have been part of other operations with the UN.

Ron Paul's point is not about isolationism it is about following the constitution which seems to state that the military is there to defend the country, only one war in the 20th century has followed that doctrine, WW2. WW1, Korea, Vietnam, Libya, Iraq and Afghanistan are all wars if we followed the rules we were given, we would not be fighting at all. WW2 was the exception because we were attacked and Germany declared war on us. There seems to be this 19th century mind set that we need to have a presence in places like Germany to be a deterrent, but you know I don't see China being all over the globe and they seem to deter attacks.

Falligator, it is a really sad note in our history that they waited to this point instead of coming together in October of 2010 to pass a budget. Maybe we need to focus on their inability to actually govern the country and not look at this as they want it to, a victory of leadership. The republicans copped out, they caved by compromising while I think a lot of people, including me, wanted to see the shutdown and see real solutions because the people would be truly mad that they could not use a US park or something that stupid.

 

[layoutshooter]

Layout,
I somewhat see that but compared to say the environmentalist or as you are involved, DU, there isn't a mass movement that there should be if this is a serious issue. I wouldn't be critical and it is the citizen who has the right to be because of the complaining and the issue of not being involved as a former or active military person. These issues won't go away until there is a solid front to it.

Speaking of Dingel or his staff, you don't talk to them at an event, but rather set up times to talk to them with more than one person. You could put efforts into another cause like you do your DU cause, which seems as important. This is how things start. Using their (liberal) tactics in non-confrontational moments to expose the issues may be a good thing - you know liberals are good for something.

Japan can redo their constitution and we can all renegotiate the treaty with Japan or at least get paid for it. Germany does not have that clause in the treaty, they have an offensive army, they are part of NATO and they have been part of other operations with the UN.

Ron Paul's point is not about isolationism it is about following the constitution which seems to state that the military is there to defend the country, only one war in the 20th century has followed that doctrine, WW2. WW1, Korea, Vietnam, Libya, Iraq and Afghanistan are all wars if we followed the rules we were given, we would not be fighting at all. WW2 was the exception because we were attacked and Germany declared war on us. There seems to be this 19th century mind set that we need to have a presence in places like Germany to be a deterrent, but you know I don't see China being all over the globe and they seem to deter attacks.

Falligator, it is a really sad note in our history that they waited to this point instead of coming together in October of 2010 to pass a budget. Maybe we need to focus on their inability to actually govern the country and not look at this as they want it to, a victory of leadership. The republicans copped out, they caved by compromising while I think a lot of people, including me, wanted to see the shutdown and see real solutions because the people would be truly mad that they could not use a US park or something that stupid.

Japan is not a member of NATO. I posted a list of the NATO countries below. They would have to re-write their constitution to do more. They have a limited defensive military, a very good well trained military, but small.

There is a VERY large effort for vets problems. Has been for years. Many vets groups are involved. The American Legion, The VFW just to name two. The problem is numbers. There are more wounded vets needing assistance than there are resources to help. As more Vietnam Era vets retire you will see more and more volunteer.

Dingell is sort of no longer there. I am not sure who is doing his job now, maybe his wife? Dingell is a HUGE supporter of Ducks Unlimited and conservation in general. That is one of the few things he is good on. NOT in some wild eyed liberal way either. He has pushed several solid, science based conservation projects in his day. Problem is he is not able to work any more.

I put a lot of effort into Ducks Unlimited and Pointe Mouillie. That is what I do now. I am too old to fight fire or run ambulance any more. That is what I do. This business does not allow the time to do everything so I do what I can. Several vets hunt with us as well. They are always welcome. We tried to do more "organized" stuff but it was not possible due to liability problems. Maybe if I ever hit the lottery or something I can set up the things needed.

As to the rest of the military stuff, I am tired. 20 years was enough. Someone else can deal with it. Every time I try to deal with it the nightmares come back. Enough is enough.











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[greg334]

Japan is not a member of NATO. I posted a list of the NATO countries below. They would have to re-write their constitution to do more. They have a limited defensive military, a very good well trained military, but small.

They are limited by treaty, not by their constitution. Their constitution was written by them and it follows the treaty of the Allied countries that they agree upon. The only problem to renegotiating any treaty will be with China, even South Korea will be persuaded to sign.

By the way they have a pretty good military system, capable of taking on a lot more than we could think possible.

There is a VERY large effort for vets problems. Has been for years. Many vets groups are involved. The American Legion, The VFW just to name two. The problem is numbers. There are more wounded vets needing assistance than there are resources to help. As more Vietnam Era vets retire you will see more and more volunteer.

But you are talking about an effort and groups who are not in the publics view for any reason and seem not to be in great numbers. They're not what I'm talking about anyway, I am talking about those who served actually who have left for what ever reason doing more than ignoring these issues.

How many are actually involved?

When was the last time there was a rally in Washington demanding these things to be fixed?

Am I the only one who was so p*ssed of about Arlington to take time to make an effort to get my feelings across to my three representatives?

There are more wounded vets needing assistance than there are resources to help.

Yep and I know it AND This is my point!

The resources are there for the disabled in other areas but not for the combat vets. The people who have disabled kids are better organized than the people who served and get them on Medicaid and other assistance so what's wrong with this picture?

Like any cause, there is a need for people to be involved but I have to conclude that most who serve don't give a crap what happens. Most want to move on with their lives and are too busy to do anything about it.

What I think is rather odd is your idea that Obama holds the military in contempt but he has been the only one to actually do something about an issue I really care about - mental health for combat vets. To me there is a trade off with his form of politics and position on the military. I don't agree with 96% of his reasoning nor his vision but this issue to me has been a huge step forward. I only hope that what I was told by the VA people holds true that the money, resources and help is going to stay.

Dingell is sort of no longer there. I am not sure who is doing his job now, maybe his wife? Dingell is a HUGE supporter of Ducks Unlimited and conservation in general. That is one of the few things he is good on. NOT in some wild eyed liberal way either. He has pushed several solid, science based conservation projects in his day. Problem is he is not able to work any more.

Well he is still an effective congressman who appears to be dead. I honestly don't care what or who is running his office, he isn't my rep. HOWEVER I also don't care about the ducks or conservation efforts that are related to any government regulations at any level that take my right to do with my land as I and only I see fit. THIS to me is a socialist/liberal thing that says I am only renting the land and not owning it and land is there for the public use.

Regardless, that's not the point. The point is you have access and you can do more.

I put a lot of effort into Ducks Unlimited and Pointe Mouillie. That is what I do now. I am too old to fight fire or run ambulance any more. That is what I do. This business does not allow the time to do everything so I do what I can. Several vets hunt with us as well. They are always welcome. We tried to do more "organized" stuff but it was not possible due to liability problems. Maybe if I ever hit the lottery or something I can set up the things needed.

Well if you put effort into DU, then why complain about something you are not willing to put in an effort for the betterment of more important things?

Just asking, don't need to be defensive.

This business actually affords you a lot of time IF you want to take advantage of it. I did a lot more than sit on my a** typing away in a forum for the past 5 years and only because I did have the time.

As to the rest of the military stuff, I am tired. 20 years was enough. Someone else can deal with it. Every time I try to deal with it the nightmares come back. Enough is enough.

I think you made the point I been trying to clearly say when I say where are all these other people who served and should be fighting to change things?

See Joe, you know the system, I had to learn how it works from the outsider/citizen point of view. YOU and others have this advantage that I don't have that advantage. I can see where the problems are from my point of view and how to solve them from the outside but I'm one person who actually has little stake in what goes on where you and others have/had.

However those who served from my point of view can step up and be a voice, not through the VFW or the AL but rather through their vote and taking up a cause to fix these things by engaging their representatives. It doesn't matter if you had a miserable time, what matters is that if you can prevent the same thing for someone who is willing to defend our country by using some of your time to engage others to get people moving.

 

[layoutshooter]

They are limited by treaty, not by their constitution. Their constitution was written by them and it follows the treaty of the Allied countries that they agree upon. The only problem to renegotiating any treaty will be with China, even South Korea will be persuaded to sign.

By the way they have a pretty good military system, capable of taking on a lot more than we could think possible.



But you are talking about an effort and groups who are not in the publics view for any reason and seem not to be in great numbers. They're not what I'm talking about anyway, I am talking about those who served actually who have left for what ever reason doing more than ignoring these issues.

How many are actually involved?

When was the last time there was a rally in Washington demanding these things to be fixed?

Am I the only one who was so p*ssed of about Arlington to take time to make an effort to get my feelings across to my three representatives?

There are more wounded vets needing assistance than there are resources to help.

Yep and I know it AND This is my point!

The resources are there for the disabled in other areas but not for the combat vets. The people who have disabled kids are better organized than the people who served and get them on Medicaid and other assistance so what's wrong with this picture?

Like any cause, there is a need for people to be involved but I have to conclude that most who serve don't give a crap what happens. Most want to move on with their lives and are too busy to do anything about it.

What I think is rather odd is your idea that Obama holds the military in contempt but he has been the only one to actually do something about an issue I really care about - mental health for combat vets. To me there is a trade off with his form of politics and position on the military. I don't agree with 96% of his reasoning nor his vision but this issue to me has been a huge step forward. I only hope that what I was told by the VA people holds true that the money, resources and help is going to stay.



Well he is still an effective congressman who appears to be dead. I honestly don't care what or who is running his office, he isn't my rep. HOWEVER I also don't care about the ducks or conservation efforts that are related to any government regulations at any level that take my right to do with my land as I and only I see fit. THIS to me is a socialist/liberal thing that says I am only renting the land and not owning it and land is there for the public use.

Regardless, that's not the point. The point is you have access and you can do more.



Well if you put effort into DU, then why complain about something you are not willing to put in an effort for the betterment of more important things?

Just asking, don't need to be defensive.

This business actually affords you a lot of time IF you want to take advantage of it. I did a lot more than sit on my a** typing away in a forum for the past 5 years and only because I did have the time.



I think you made the point I been trying to clearly say when I say where are all these other people who served and should be fighting to change things?

See Joe, you know the system, I had to learn how it works from the outsider/citizen point of view. YOU and others have this advantage that I don't have that advantage. I can see where the problems are from my point of view and how to solve them from the outside but I'm one person who actually has little stake in what goes on where you and others have/had.

However those who served from my point of view can step up and be a voice, not through the VFW or the AL but rather through their vote and taking up a cause to fix these things by engaging their representatives. It doesn't matter if you had a miserable time, what matters is that if you can prevent the same thing for someone who is willing to defend our country by using some of your time to engage others to get people moving.

Japan did NOT write their own constitution. It was primarily written by the United States, under the direction of MacAurthur. I posted a link below. England and pre-Chicom China were involved.

I write letters to congressman Dingell and those usless senators we have. I wrote my first letter to Dingell on this subject in 1973 when I was turned down for a firefighting job with the National Park service. Wrote him AGAIN, later, when those jobs were given to the cowards who ran to Canada to smoke pot. I have continued to write him on this. It has done NO good.

I know what Obama has done for, or to, the VA. I do NOT trust him. EVERYTHING Obama does comes with strings attached. I have little doubt that it will hurt us down the road. The VA is not longer allowed to adhere to the part of the contract that provided for lifelong health care for retired vets. I know of a couple of retired army nurses who work at the VA who are NOT able to use the services they are entitled too. This has started SINCE Obama took office.

No one can do everything. There are plenty of people doing the HEAVY work on these issues. They are up in congress almost all the time. I write them often. That is who our system works.

What I do with my physical time for D.U. and Pointe Mouillie IS important. Not only to me but to everyone in SE Michigan and all of Lake Erie in general.

I don't know what you mean by having a "miserable time". I enjoyed my military service. I would never had made a carrier of it, I am too independent for that. I knew I had to go in. I enlisted for 4 years, I knew I could behave myself for that length of time. Good thing I was given a year early out, behaving was getting hard!!















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