Serious Problem

[Turtle]

Layout, I'm not even talking about the nature of service, you are. I'm talking about the nature of the government using their tin soldiers irresponsibly, and the "REAL problem" that you started this thread for is a direct result of that irresponsibility. Hawk used the term, and a few people lost their minds over it (because they really and truly very, very, very badly want and need to be offended by something so they can get mad about it), but what he said is absolutely spot-on, and directly addresses the "REAL problem" you are talking about. If they didn't have a virtually endless supply of tin soldiers to take their place, the "REAL problem" would be non-existent.

You think the problem is caused by the Obama Administration (which is a political argument, ironically), but it's not. The problem is how our government has used and misused our tin soldiers since the 1960s, and it's now gotten to the point that they don't even want to fix them.

 

[layoutshooter]

Layout, I'm not even talking about the nature of service, you are. I'm talking about the nature of the government using their tin soldiers irresponsibly, and the "REAL problem" that you started this thread for is a direct result of that irresponsibility. Hawk used the term, and a few people lost their minds over it (because they really and truly very, very, very badly want and need to be offended by something so they can get mad about it), but what he said is absolutely spot-on, and directly addresses the "REAL problem" you are talking about. If they didn't have a virtually endless supply of tin soldiers to take their place, the "REAL problem" would be non-existent.

You think the problem is caused by the Obama Administration (which is a political argument, ironically), but it's not. The problem is how our government has used and misused our tin soldiers since the 1960s, and it's now gotten to the point that they don't even want to fix them.

I understand what you are saying.

I am NOT talking about the problem of the misuse of troops in the first place. I am NOT talking about the political side of this subject. I AM talking about the criminal actions of an administration that has taken deliberate steps to harm people who have already been misused. Why? I have no idea. I have many thoughts on that, most of which require the use of words that the filters won't let through.

All those who have suffered injury in the service of this Nation, both physical and mental, are flesh and blood human beings, not 'tin'.

As to what some consider 'misuse' of those who had or have the courage to serve, that too is better served in another thread. It is also most likely a waste of time.

The problems at Ft. Lewis, and the Army in general, need to be fixed. The causes of those problems need to be investigated to determine if there was criminal action. THAT will not happen unless the government is forced to do so.

We are only seeing the tip of this very ugly iceberg.

 

[Turtle]

I understand what you are saying.

Good.

I am NOT talking about the problem of the misuse of troops in the first place. I am NOT talking about the political side of this subject. I AM talking about the criminal actions of an administration that has taken deliberate steps to harm people who have already been misused. Why? I have no idea. I have many thoughts on that, most of which require the use of words that the filters won't let through.

But you are talking about the misuse. The fact that they don't want to fix them is a gross misuse of those troops. It's a continuation of the misuse. It's all connected.

All those who have suffered injury in the service of this Nation, both physical and mental, are flesh and blood human beings, not 'tin'.

Calm down. It's a metaphor. So is weekend warrior. And it's not even a derogatory one.

As to what some consider 'misuse' of those who had or have the courage to serve, that too is better served in another thread. It is also most likely a waste of time.

You mean like the misuse of misdiagnosis or the misuse of "Hey! Look! You're mentally healthy now!"?

The problems at Ft. Lewis, and the Army in general, need to be fixed. The causes of those problems need to be investigated to determine if there was criminal action. THAT will not happen unless the government is forced to do so.

We are only seeing the tip of this very ugly iceberg.

The government has time and time again proved to be exceedingly incompetent at investigating, policing and prosecuting themselves.

 

[layoutshooter]

Never mind, this is a waste of time. The results of the "program' are beginning to show. Many MORE will die as a result. When it gets bad enough something MIGHT get done.

For me, this problem is PERSONAL and for GOOD reason. That is enough on that in this open forum.

 

[Turtle]

I fully understand, especially because of Ft. Lewis. I saw a piece on the news the other day about several recent, rather odd and disturbing happenings that stem from (or are at least connected to) people from there. Even that guy who killed the park ranger recently was from there. It's really weird.

I've delivered to that joint base twice (once to each side, actually), so I have somewhat of an interest. Certainly not to the level you'd have, tho.

 

[layoutshooter]

I fully understand, especially because of Ft. Lewis. I saw a piece on the news the other day about several recent, rather odd and disturbing happenings that stem from (or are at least connected to) people from there. Even that guy who killed the park ranger recently was from there. It's really weird.

I've delivered to that joint base twice (once to each side, actually), so I have somewhat of an interest. Certainly not to the level you'd have, tho.

Keep this in mind, that soldier who was involved in that mass shooting the other day was with a "Stryker Brigade", out of Ft. Lewis. The entire story of what happened that night will likely not ever come out or will be "white washed" to protect the 'programs' that, at the very least, contributed to that horrible night.

There is FAR more going on that is being reported. The "Stryker Brigades" in general have BIG problems.

I don't wish to go into full details in public forum, it get's too personal. A few in here know more.

 

[Poorboy]

he admitted to cocaine at least a few times in his life.

Well the way he struts around and most of his policies, I'm thinkin that he needs a Pee test!

 

[witness23]

Turtle, I did NOT start this thread to get into political arguments. I started it to bring attention to a REAL problem being caused by the Obama Administration.

LOL!!! Holy crap that's funny.

 

[Tennesseahawk]

Tin soldiers? Care to explain what u mean by that? Over the last few conflicts we've had more and more national guard and reserve forces have been deployed. Thank god someone is out there defending your rights, even the tin soldiers.

I didn't mean anything derogatory towards the soldiers themselves. I meant that once soldiers are removed from the battlefield, the sniveling bureaucrats and generals surrounding the war table, could pick up more tin soldiers off the shelf and place them on the board.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Reality Check Joe....everything in here turns into a political argument...LOL

 

[layoutshooter]

LOL!!! Holy crap that's funny.

Leave it to you to miss the point of the entire thread. People are being damaged for unknown reasons. You should be all over Obama and Co. about the things that are going on at Ft. Lewis and the Stryker Brigades in general. It is REALLY bad!

Of course, if you are only out to cause trouble in here...................

 

[OntarioVanMan]

is this where I go for popcorn?.....

 

[layoutshooter]

is this where I go for popcorn?.....

Might as well, the day is shot now.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

ya know Joe..it is kind of like in the insurance business...they'd prefer a straight out death claim...a one time payment as opposed to the cost of a lifetime of treatment...it is a lot cheaper...

 

[layoutshooter]

ya know Joe..it is kind of like in the insurance business...they'd prefer a straight out death claim...a one time payment as opposed to the cost of a lifetime of treatment...it is a lot cheaper...

And they are dying. As are many who were not even involved. What is taking place at Ft. Lewis and the "Stryker Brigades" is criminal. With any luck more of the truth will someday, hopefully soon, come out. Names need to be named.

They treated the Vietnam and Cold War vest like dog stuff. History is repeating. Many of us are doing what ever we can to insure that this, and other abuses, stop.

The problem starts at the top.

 

[RLENT]

Keep this in mind, that soldier who was involved in that mass shooting the other day was with a "Stryker Brigade", out of Ft. Lewis.

Keep this in mind:

1. the story you posted was probably a "puff piece" .... intentionally feed to the media by the government for PR purposes - to "soften" the public impact of what that lunatic whackjob butcher did over in Afghanistan ... and make him seem like the "victim" (what a frickin' joke)

2. the dude was bad news before he ever joined (which it appears he did to escape the consequences of his actions):

A. assaulted a former girlfriend

B. assaulted a casino worker

C. defrauded at least one retiree of over $800K or retirement savings

Bales and the "investment" firm he worked for (which I think was owned by he and his brother) had a pending court judgement against them IIRC for over $1,240,000 for "C" above.

IIRC, A through C all occurred before he enlisted ... and certainly before he was "traumatized" ....

The dude was subhuman scum ....

 

[layoutshooter]

Keep this in mind:

1. the story you posted was probably a "puff piece" .... intentionally feed to the media for PR purposes - to "soften" the impact of what that lunatic whackjob butcher did over in Afghanistan ... and make him seem like the "victim" (what a frickin' joke)

2. the dude was bad news before he ever joined (which it appears he did to escape the consequences of his actions):

A. assaulted a former girlfriend

B. assaulted a casino worker

C. defrauded at least one retiree of over $800K or retirement savings

Bales and the "investment" firm he worked for (which I think was owned by he and his brother) had a pending court judgement against them IIRC for over $1,240,000 for "C" above.

IIRC, A through C all occurred before he enlisted ... and certainly before he was "traumatized" ....

The dude was subhuman scum ....

First off, I did NOT post this to "defend" his actions. I posted it to TRY to expose the criminal activity that is taking place on Ft. Lewis and the 'Stryker Brigades' in general, under the direction of THIS administration.


It was indeed a "puff piece", written to try to "hide the actions" of the Obama administration.

The underlying facts are correct. The administration has issued certain directives designed to 'cut costs' regardless of the effects it has on combat vets. The bulk of the problem is found in the Army, at Ft. Lewis and primarily in the "Stryker Brigades" They are seeing problems at "Stryker" units in Germany.

I was NOT defending Bales. I do know that one, he should have never been in the military. Two, should not have done 3 other combat deployments. After having done those deployments, being wounded twice, he should have been taken of the the line unit that he should have never been in the first place. Once on those 'listed' psychotropic drugs, which are 'listed' because they are KNOWN to increase the risk of certain types of violent break downs, he should have not been in combat.

There are HUNDREDS or more involved in this 'program'.

I KNOW of one soldier, who has received a letter from the Sec of the Army apologizing for the problems that this 'program' at Ft. Lewis has caused him and that they are taking steps to 'right the wrong' so to speak.

Take Bales out of this and nothing changes. What is going on is criminal.

Focus on the the real problem, the Obama administration's programs to reduce 'costs' on the backs of injured vets.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Keep this in mind:

1. the story you posted was probably a "puff piece" .... intentionally feed to the media by the government for PR purposes - to "soften" the public impact of what that lunatic whackjob butcher did over in Afghanistan ... and make him seem like the "victim" (what a frickin' joke)

2. the dude was bad news before he ever joined (which it appears he did to escape the consequences of his actions):

A. assaulted a former girlfriend

B. assaulted a casino worker

C. defrauded at least one retiree of over $800K or retirement savings

Bales and the "investment" firm he worked for (which I think was owned by he and his brother) had a pending court judgement against them IIRC for over $1,240,000 for "C" above.

IIRC, A through C all occurred before he enlisted ... and certainly before he was "traumatized" ....

The dude was subhuman scum ....

I think Joe was pointing out the secondary story that was included about the treatment of Vets....

 

[aristotle]

The term "tin soldiers" is not one used respectfully. The service and sacrifice of National Guardsmen and Reservists deserves honorable treatment as most fulfill their duties to the best of their ability. Since the war in Afghanistan began, many Guardsmen and Reservists have been called up for multiple deployments. Often, beyond reasonable expectations. Rather than maintain a properly staffed standing Army, the USA has been trying to have a war on the cheap. I can understand criticizing policy, but not troops in the field. We get what we pay for. Without the National Guard and Reservists we would indeed have a hollow Army.

It's easy to come online and throw around terms like "tin soldiers." It comes across as an attempt to cheapen their service. For the most part, our fighting forces are young, patriotic and loyal even unto death. The policymakers are the real problem. Our troops are better than those who lead them.

 

[RLENT]

I think Joe was pointing out the secondary story that was included about the treatment of Vets....

I know exactly what Joe was pointing out ...

I just wasn't going to let the positioning of Bales as a "victim" in the piece go by without pointing out that he ain't.

It's a tragedy for everyone involved ... including Bales.