Secure parking lots?

Soundguy

Seasoned Expediter
A light duty straight truck with sleeper and small cargo box would offer the best in maneuverability and security but I think Hours of Service regulations could put you in a bind.

So, I've looked around a bit and found this truck as a possible solution. http://www.truckpaper.com/listings/detail.aspx?OHID=1601189&guid=6C8E8273E9AC49A88EBBC2461298958A

It's under 26,000# GVW, has hydraulic brakes, plenty of cargo space & weight capacity for my gear, and a nice sleeper cab with an APU. Looks like a pretty sweet ride for my gig.

Just what would I need in terms of an operators license to drive it around the country with my sound gear in the back? I'll put commercial tags on this if need be, but would I need a CDL? Obviously, not every painter or lawn care van on the road with commercial plates has a driver with a CDL. Would only a standard operator's license be needed to drive this truck? Again, I'm not going to be hauling any loads for anyone except myself. I can put a not-for-hire sign on the truck if it helps any DOT situations.

Bottom line, would this sort of truck be drivable in all states without a CDL or the need to maintaini a driver's log with the time restrictions that would place on me? Am I heading in the right direction, thought-wise?

Thanks for all your input so far.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Soundguy,
Thanks for the price.

As for your question, yes you need a CDL.

You are traveling to other states and the other states matter. The 26K thing is only good for fuel taxes at that point, nothing else. You have to scale and log.

What's the thing about hydraulic brakes? If you end up with a CDL, take the air brake endorsement to get it out of the way, it is really is easy.

The other thing with lawn care people, horse people and other who fly under the radar, it only takes once to get nailed and then you need to deal with legal issues that could be costly. Believe me, I been there. They get away with it because they get aways with it, you know what I mean? I learned that it is far better to play by the rules and not cheat.

Remember that this is a commercial venture, and you are hauling yourself to places with equipment that you own to do a service as a commercial venture. Putting not for hire signs don't mean a thing, it is a commercial venture.
 

fastrod

Expert Expediter
It's under 26,000# GVW, has hydraulic brakes, plenty of cargo space & weight capacity for my gear, and a nice sleeper cab with an APU. Looks like a pretty sweet ride for my gig.

Just what would I need in terms of an operators license to drive it around the country with my sound gear in the back? I'll put commercial tags on this if need be, but would I need a CDL?

If it is under 26,000# then no CDL is needed. You need to check with the state you live in or the feds to find out what rules you need to follow as far as plating the truck , logging and scaling.
 

Soundguy

Seasoned Expediter
As for your question, yes you need a CDL.

Looks like I better start studying for my CDL. I checked at my local Community College last year, and unfortunately they only offer a 16 week Monday through Friday or even longer Saturday & Sunday CDL classes. There's nothing offered for someone that works Fridays through Sundays already. They do have a 3-day CDL tune-up class but the instructor didn't seem interested in helping me figure this out. Since I wasn't looking to work for any of the trucking companies that help sponsor the course, he did everything he could to dissuade me from proceeding.

So any suggestions how I can get a CDL without having to give up 16 weeks of work?
 

Soundguy

Seasoned Expediter
Just don't go over the 10k.
Now I'm really confused.... So is 10K the magic number? Honestly, I've driven my 2500 Sprinter full of seminar gear all over the country, and always get waved by weigh stations. I've been stopped lots of times to check for fruit, illegals, convicts, and occasionally by a curious homeland security officer, and nobody ever asked to see my license or logbook. Does a truck under 10K driven commercially require a CDL with stops and logs?
 

theoldprof

Veteran Expediter
Soundguy. You fly a lot and spend a lot on hotels, so this is not a shoestring operation. You said you had problems before with trucking guys not getting your delivery on time. Try an expedite carrier. On time pu and del is expedite type of work. This way you could get rid of all your rolling stock. Just fly to the site and rent a car. Just a thought.
 

Soundguy

Seasoned Expediter
Soundguy. You fly a lot and spend a lot on hotels, so this is not a shoestring operation. You said you had problems before with trucking guys not getting your delivery on time. Try an expedite carrier. On time pu and del is expedite type of work. This way you could get rid of all your rolling stock. Just fly to the site and rent a car. Just a thought.

Not shoestring operation to be sure, but every buck I spend is a buck I don't make. Plus i don't mind driving around the country, and as a soundguy I'm used to doing most everything myself. I actually taught a class on packing sound gear in trucks, so I know the things that can go wrong with transporting sound systems.

However, the biggest problem with using an expedite service is probably that the security at the places I teach is pretty bad. For instance, many of the churches I go to at are not in the best areas of town, so leaving my gear unattended for even a few hours has bad side effects. And the schools I've taught at can't secure the classrooms since everybody and his brother seems to have a key. I would have to have the expediter truck waiting on the dock when I arrive at 4 PM , and if I'm 6 hours late due to a plane delay the driver could not leave the gear on the dock with the church or school. They would have the wait for me to arrive. I assume that's not inexpensive.

Also, I'm not being critical of truck drivers as an industry, but a few years ago I had a national trucking company leave a skid of speakers worth $20,000 down at the end of my driveway in the rain. After he dropped the gear, the driver came to my house to ask for a signature. It was only after I signed and walked down my driveway that I saw him racing down the street leaving me to get a handtruck and shuttle 500 pounds of gear up my driveway in the rain. I was not a happy guy that day.

Remember I've taught something like 500 sound seminars already, so it seems like the more I do myself, the less there is to go wrong. I've had sound companies offer to bring the gear I need, but they bring the wrong stuff or it doesn't work. I've had trucking companies deliver the gear to my teaching location and most of the time that works out, but sometimes it's been late, lost, or shaken apart. Once a trucking company put a fork truck tine go all the way through a road case and nobody notified me of damage until I unpacked the load myself and needed to set it up for a seminar. Again, I was not a happy guy that day.

So with all due respect, I need a way to get myself and my gear to these events at the same time and in the same vehicle. If I'm late, then my gear's late. If I'm early, then my gear's early. And if I'm a no show, then my gear's in the truck with me and not on a dock.

Now, please don't think I'm bitchin' at you guys, cause I'm not. You move tons of very heavy and expensive stuff every day and on schedule. It's just that I'm always in a different city every week and not all locations are created equal. I may seem overly paranoid, but I've had all my gear stolen in Canada once, and that was one time too many.

Again, any comments or suggestions are welcome and appreciated. I'm just trying to figure out how to take this to the next level.
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
Does a truck under 10K driven commercially require a CDL with stops and logs?

Doesn't require a CDL, doesn't require scaling (generally, depends on the state) and logging. Go over 10,000 though and you have to log and scale - even if you don't have a CDL.
 
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Time Out

Seasoned Expediter
Soundguy,
A quick trip to the scales in New Market, Md will get you the info that you are asking for. I had a brief training session from them nice people several years ago involving a "not for hire" EMPTY pick up truck and a trailer. They are very knowledgeable in this area and would love to share their wealth of knowledge with you. Their persuasion lead me to being the law abiding, Class A endorsed, truck driving wanna be that I am today. :D

As far as a secure lot to park ... maybe check with the area storage lots such as places that store RV's and boats. Also, a towing and recovery company may be able to help since most of them are required to have a secured area to store vehicles.

Another thing to consider is the extra cost that will be involved with going to a larger truck. Additional fuel, maintenance, storage, etc.
 

Soundguy

Seasoned Expediter
Soundguy,
A quick trip to the scales in New Market, Md will get you the info that you are asking for.
Do you mean the scales right there on I-70? Do I just stop by during a regular 9 to 5 day and say I'm interested in getting more information on weight limits and license classes? I've talked to the local DMV on Sharpsburg pike and they didn't seem to know a lot.

Another thing to consider is the extra cost that will be involved with going to a larger truck. Additional fuel, maintenance, storage, etc.
Well.... since I spent $15,000 last year on hotel rooms and mediocre restaurant meals, a truck/trailer with nice LQ will help that colum of the expense spreadsheet. Plus I've got a bunch of new sponsors coming onlne which I can't take on unless I have added cargo capacity. I'm a victum of my own success. This was pretty simple when I threw 500# of gear in the back of my PU truck and drove to gigs and back. Now I'm up to 15 sponsors this seaon, each of whom require I bring their gear for demonstration. See http://www.fitsandstarts.com/registration-howto.htm#sponsors for the current list. So the extra maintenance and fuel costs would be easily offset by those hotel savings and increaded sponsorship income. I run a pretty tight ship on expenses as most of you guys do, so I can pretty much tell to within about 5% what a trip is gonna cost me just by doing a WAG in my head. Of course, that also means I'm painfully aware of when something's not making me any money, as all of you also do. So we really all have a lot in common. We're all just working business guys trying to be smart and safe and support ourselves and our familes.
 

jaminjim

Veteran Expediter
eBay Motors: Closeout Holiday Rambler Atlantis 31SL "Used Pricing" (item 110212890432 end time Jan-21-08 17:00:00 PST)
If you just have to have it then this is what type of vehicle you should have, except the one for toys in the back. You are talking to a bunch of drivers who want you to do everything by the book. (Their book) you have been running under the radar for years, just use common sense, get the toy hauler and use it for the family when not transporting your stuff.

Does an IT guy need to say his personal vehicle is a commercial vehicle just because he carries his laptop and manuals?
You are getting opinions from a bunch of Truckstop DOT men, I know cause I is one of them thar dudes.
 

Crazynuff

Veteran Expediter
If you go to a scale to ask questions make sure you have a log book AND DOT medical card which is also required over 10,000 lbs. gvwr . A DOT inspection on the truck is required as well as a mounted fire extinguisher and reflective triangles . One fact you won't like about log books . ALL compensated hours , whether trucking related or not are to be logged as on duty time . When you are giving a seminar you are on duty and that counts against your available 70 hours in 8 days and your 14 hour daily limit .
 

Soundguy

Seasoned Expediter
That's a pretty good lead. I've been looking for something like this built on a real truck frame, rather than a motorhome chassis with a garage or an expediter truck with a sleeper cab. If I can buid one under 26,000 GVWR then perhaps it could solve a lot of problems. I'll give them a shout and see what happens. Thanks!!!
 

Soundguy

Seasoned Expediter
Does an IT guy need to say his personal vehicle is a commercial vehicle just because he carries his laptop and manuals? You are getting opinions from a bunch of Truckstop DOT men, I know cause I is one of them thar dudes.

There's just so much conflicting info on this from state to state. So perhaps as long as I maintain a low profile, don't put any sponsor logos on the truck, keep all lights working and don't overload anything, I'll be safe and sound. This is in fact just a bunch of sound gear in the back like any band would use. I've told dozens of Ag and Immigration inspectors that it's just a bunch of sound gear for a class and nobody even asked to look inside a road case.

However, I've read on the RV forums that California and other states are cracking down on huge RV's being driven without consideration of weight or safety. And certainly I've seen guys that can hardly walk climb up into a 45 ft Prevost pulling a trailer, and there's RV tags on everything. Looks to be about as dangerous as you can get. I'm not one of those guys... I just want to do my gig safely.

Thanks for all your input.
 
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Crazynuff

Veteran Expediter
It's not the DOT you need to be concerned about . It's attornies if you are involved in an accident . Doesn't matter whose fault it was . You'd better be 100% legal .
 

Time Out

Seasoned Expediter
So perhaps as long as I maintain a low profile, don't put any sponsor logos on the truck, keep all lights working and don't overload anything, I'll be safe and sound.



I hope that works for you. It didn't work for me.

At that time I was still farming and enroute to pick up a piece of farm equipment about 5 miles from the scale. No logo or displayed USDOT number is what got me a trip around back of the scale house to begin with. My pick up truck was registered in Va. and required a DOT number because it had a GVW of greater than 10,000 pounds. They also placed me out of service right there for not having a log book and gave me a vehicle inspection just for visiting them. Maybe they were just having a bad day. I know that I was. This dumb ole farm boy didn't know about all them laws at the time. That was then and this is now.

Maybe you aren't required to have such endorsements in your situation but, asking the DOT a few questions now could save alot of problems later.

Just my two cents worth... I will take my change now.:D:D:D
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Like I have been saying, it don't matter what others do and get away with, it only takes once to get one guy or gal who will ruin your week. May even make you miss a schedule event.
 

Soundguy

Seasoned Expediter
It's not the DOT you need to be concerned about . It's attornies if you are involved in an accident . Doesn't matter whose fault it was . You'd better be 100% legal .
I'm trying to be 100% legal, believe me. To tell you the truth, I really don't know if I'm currently legal driving an 8,750 GVWR Sprinter with my training gear in back. According to my insurance company I am, and I've explained to them time and again what I was going to do. And according to the local office of the MVA I'm legal as long as I don't overload my Sprinter or charge customers to transport packages. Again, I explained I was a seminar instructor hauling my own gear across the country. And to continue the IT example, I used to do just that... hooking up ATM machines all over the country. I was always hauling a laptop and digital scope around with me in every sort of personal and company vehicle imaginable. All I was ever asked for was my passport and security clearance with never a CDL or DOT number in site.

So at what point does a vehicle used to carry your own gear to work become "commercial"? Just about every guy on the interstate going to work and talking on his cellphone is using his car as a mobile office, and certainly making money from it. I know that thousands of salesguys haul gear to seminars and customers in the back of their mini-vans and pickup trucks. Do they all need CDL's as well? That just can't be possible.

Is the flash point 100# of gear or 1,000# of gear or 10,000# of gear??? Perhaps is it a vehicle over 10,000# GVWR? That seems to be a legal point in some states, while others like MD make it 26,000# for a truck or 10,000# for a trailer and max 26,000# combined rating. Again, I'm not trying to be a smartass or anything. I just can't get a legal definiiton of what point a vehicle becomes commercial and requires a CDL and DOT number? I don't want to try to play the RV or hobbiest exception game that racers do. I'm way too visible for that. If any of you would dig far enough into my website and Google my name you'll see that I come up on a few hundred thousand websites. Everyone in the industry knows exactly what I do and my road schedule is plastered all over the place, in many cases literally plastered up on walls all over a town.

So what's a mother to do??? Who the heck do I talk to that can give me a definitive answer on how to proceed? I came to you guys in hope of some answers, and I'm getting a lot of info, but not enough yet for an informed decision. However, I certainly appreciate all your thoughts.

At some point sooner than later I'm just gonna have to make a decision and live with it. I just hope it's the right one.
 
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