Saving Money By Extending Your Oil Change Interval

[RLENT]

RE: Saving Money By Extending Your Oil Change Inte

That filtering oil (removing particles of whatever size) doesn't do anything to rejuvenate oil that has become chemically contaminated from the combustion process ?

Although you can remove particulate matter with a regular old filter it probably does little to remove the chemical byproducts created in the combustion process. Oil producers put certain chemicals into the oil, such as anti-wear additives, to retard the breakdown of the oil and to allow to have a longer useful life .... but eventually these compunds become less effective over time and mileage.

 

[pelicn]

RE: Saving Money By Extending Your Oil Change Inte

Thanks, that makes sense.

 

[greg334]

RE: Saving Money By Extending Your Oil Change Inte

The actual oil does not break down unless there is a lot of heat involved. The additives do wear out but there is a lot of research that goes beyond most sales pitches about several of these products.

With all that said, I know that both the oil companies and the engine manufactures do actually know that these bypass filters work. I was at Detroit Diesel a couple years back and asked why they don't install this on their product, the answer has nothing to do with the cost but the way the engines are ordered. I got the same answer from Cat when I went there. The manufacture of the trucks are the one's who need to spec out the bypass system, not the engine manufacture. Most by the way, including Kubota, do have bypass systems in their catalogs for their engines but most dealers can't find them.

On the oil companies end, Chevron said "our position is simple, what ever will filter the oil better and ensure that the additives are not removed improve the life of the oil" - they mean that filtration down to 3 microns will start removing the additives. Exxon also said the same thing but went one step further by saying the GE and EMF locomotives have by pass filtration systems installed for a while and this has reduced oil changes by 40%. Mobile has 'un-officailly' said that their testing with Mobile One and a bypass system has given them 100k plus oil changes. Oh the one thing the Chevron contact mentioned is that "we are in the oil selling business, which means that we are not likely to promote anything that will stop us from selling oil." rather blunt but truthful statement.

The Navy has used a system that the OPS1 system is based on, which has been around for some 60 years.

 

[RLENT]

RE: Saving Money By Extending Your Oil Change Inte

Really ?

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/basic_lubrication_design.htm

 

[greg334]

RE: Saving Money By Extending Your Oil Change Inte

Really what?

 

[davekc]

RE: Saving Money By Extending Your Oil Change Inte

Gregg,

I think you might be missing the point. The problem is, if you have one, you can't extend the drain intervals. If so, you void the warranty. So whats the point? It doesn't say a thing on any truck I have allowing extended intervals if you have one.

Also, there information on having the truck manufacturer supply it is inaccurate. Same problem. If there is a engine related failure due to oil issues, that is the engine warranty and manufacturer of that engine. Not the actual truck dealer or manufacturer.

The other issue would be heat. I have to wonder how the new 08 engines come into play. Saw in the latest issue of Landline that a lot of heat related problems are creeping up on these engines at the 85,000 mile mark. Engines doing ok, but everything else is wearing out much quicker, from hoses, bearing, alternators, you name it.













Davekc
owner
23 years
PantherII
EO moderator

 

[RLENT]

RE: Saving Money By Extending Your Oil Change Inte

Greg,

I was replying to your comment:

"The actual oil does not break down unless there is a lot of heat involved."

The comment almost makes it seem as though unless you experienced some sort of abnormal temperatures in your engine, the oil wouldn't breakdown .... I don't know that that is actually the case.

At any rate, there is a fair amount of heat involved in most internal combustion engines that I've seen ......

My comment about "oil breaking down" was in reference to a lubricating oil compund's useful life (Compound meaning the formulated oil you buy in a container, as a complete packaged product - as opposed to just the base stock without the additives)

Maybe you are talking about viscosity breakdown - as opposed to chemical breakdown ?

You will agree that motor oil does have a usefull life won't you ? And that that useful life isn't only a fuction of particulate contamination ?

"The additives do wear out but there is a lot of research that goes beyond most sales pitches about several of these products."

Of this, I'm sure.

 

[Turtle]

RE: Saving Money By Extending Your Oil Change Inte

I think he may be questioning the (common) notion that heat is what breaks down oil. It's the oxidation process that breaks down the oil, not the heat. While heat can speed up the process (oil in a working engine will break down faster than oil sitting in an open container in the corner of the garage), it is oxidation that is the culprit. Even new oil in sealed bottles will eventually break down. Oil that has been sitting in a vehicle that hasn't been moved in a year will have been broken down to the point of needing to be changed before the engine is turned over.

The additives themselves don't break down so much as they are consumed in the process of trying to fight the oxidation process.

Slow and steady, even in expediting, wins the race - Aesop

 

[davekc]

RE: Saving Money By Extending Your Oil Change Inte

Turtle has it right. That was my point earlier. Heat isn't the only item associated with oil breakdown.








Davekc
owner
23 years
PantherII
EO moderator

 

[pelicn]

RE: Saving Money By Extending Your Oil Change Inte

I said "that makes sense" but the more I thought about it, the more it didn't. My question now is, if you have a bypass filter, and you also do the oil analysis and it comes out with no problems, then do you still need to do the complete oil change? I thought oil analysis showed breakdown or chemical changes in the oil.

 

[davekc]

RE: Saving Money By Extending Your Oil Change Inte

It depends on the type of test. Speedco for example is a very basic test. Engine dealers like CAT or Cummins send them to specific labs for testing. Several more tings are looked at with that type of test. Doesn't happen for 10 bucks either.










Davekc
owner
23 years
PantherII
EO moderator

 

[ATeam]

RE: Saving Money By Extending Your Oil Change Inte

My question now is, if you have a
>bypass filter, and you also do the oil analysis and it comes
>out with no problems, then do you still need to do the
>complete oil change?

In our case, the answer is yes, we would still need to do the complete oil change. Not because the oil is bad but because our engine is under warranty and the manufacturer requires oil changes at certain intervals to keep the warranty intact. For that reason, we extend the oil change intervals to 25,000 miles (allowed in the owner's manual for trucks used in light duty), but not more.

 

[unorthodoxneon]

RE: Saving Money By Extending Your Oil Change Inte

Well after reading this post i'm shocked nobody brought this up.. If your going to add a BYPASS filter why dont you also throw in an oil cooler as well. That will reduce the heat which will also extend the life of your oil change. It will also help your truck by running cooler. The engine cools itself by 3 ways. Radiator, Heat Dissipation, and your Oil System.

 

[greg334]

RE: Saving Money By Extending Your Oil Change Inte

Randy,
Most of these engines have a temp controlled oil cooler already there. The issue of heat comes from the hard use of the engine and surpassing the EGTs far above what is recommended. Many don't have any measurement of EGTs on their trucks and the oil cooler would not help in keeping the oil cool enough when you have a glowing exhaust manifold.

 

[unorthodoxneon]

RE: Saving Money By Extending Your Oil Change Inte

Yea i guess that is true. Eh just build a ram air set up and have it blow air on the turbo mani to keep it cool :+

 

[greg334]

RE: Saving Money By Extending Your Oil Change Inte

Actually Randy, outside of the EGTs turbo wraps are a good thing. There are things that you can do to move the heat out or away from the engine and that is what you want to do. Oil and water, of course not mixed, does exactly that. Oil serves two jobs, lubrication and cooling.

 

[unorthodoxneon]

RE: Saving Money By Extending Your Oil Change Inte

From talking with a few people (most this is car related) the turbo wraps dont really do too much [the compressor side] the air doesnt sit in the turbo long enough to collect the heat from the turbo and most of the heat is generated from the compression of the air. I dont know if trucks are the same way, but some car turbos are cooled by coolant and or water. So an oil cooler helps keep stress off of the coolant system without having to upgrade the radiator. But as noted, i'm a car/light truck nut. Semi's and Diesels dont do much for me. But i wouldnt mind having one under the hood of a RAM }>

 

[greg334]

RE: Saving Money By Extending Your Oil Change Inte

Randy, wraps don't help reduce the heat on the compressor side of the turbo. What turbo warps do is keep heat contained to move it along within the exhaust side of the turbo. There is an issue that letting metal parts become soaked with heat that reduces flow.

If I am explaining it right?

 

[unorthodoxneon]

RE: Saving Money By Extending Your Oil Change Inte

Yea, but the problem with wraps is they hold moisture which makes the parts rust faster. I will stay away from the wraps. If i wanted to help hold the heat in i would probably have the exhaust part JETHOT coated (or similiar) both inside and out to keep the heat in the exhaust.

Wierd how we went fro oil changes to now coating your turbine housing.