Sad day in W.V.

[simon says]

Tragic deaths of 12 miners in W.V. after a false report... This is what happens under deregulation, unions gone absent/broken,gov. gutting of safety enforcement, and low wage jobs in a dangerous occupation. Sort of like trucking... By the way, doubtful any illegal workers were involved, but people still take those jobs, and pay the price under conditions their fathers refused to work under.

 

[davekc]

As much as I hate to see it, not likely the last of these types of incidents. Numerous violations that no one seems to know were addressed.
Finger pointing will begin shortly.

Davekc
owner
21 years
PantherII
EO moderator

 

[greg334]

It is a shame that anyone had to die. Pray for their families.

I understand the fear that many in these small towns have if they unionize the mines, the company simply closes the mines and the town dies. When I was down in that area 15 years ago it was the mine that controlled everything, you worked for the company, you saw a company doctor and you shopped at a company store.

Safety…. Deregulation….violations? Don’t know. No mine is perfect, even the best ones have problems. I heard several times that all the methane was not flushed out of the shafts before the miners went down into the mine. I can say that no one has yet explained what these violations were or what the new company was doing to correct the problems.

Law suites? Sure lawyers were down there in front of the news idiots. I can tell you when the law suites go to court, that the mine will close and that company will close every mine in the area to be spiteful. They did this in different towns in PA.

But I feel the news people are a bigger problem, even though it was really a sad thing having an accident like this, the media is the real villain here. As far as I am concern, Anderson Cooper, Rita Cosby, Geraldo and all the others dumb a**es were a cause of a lot of the grief for these people and us. I mean watching Anderson Cooper when he heard the rumors and telling others around him the news without waiting for confirmation or watching Geraldo follow a women just sobbing trying to get her reaction to the death of her husband. All disgusting people.

 

[RichM]

I will never forget that dips--- Barbara Walters interviewing the Father of the 2 children that their Mother drowned in South Carolina. She was Susan Smith, and B. Walters was asking the guy"How did you feel when you were going to the funeral of your 2 sons?" What did she expect the guy to say"Gee I don't have to change diapers any more or get up early to feed them". .

Sometimes I wonder ,how do they sleep at night.

 

[dhalltoyo]

Mining has always been a very dangerous profession. It is 1000 times more dangerous in other countries. All them illegals in there own countries with out the benefit of unions. Of course, that really has nothing to do with the obvious danger of going down into the earth with explosive gases accumulating in the same hole where you are starting electrical equipment.

NASA is full of regulations and union workers, but when you strap yourself to 1,000,000 gallons of rocket fuel and light it up (another very dangerous profession), you are going to have an accident and loss of life at some point in time.

Interesting how folks will get in a twist when 12 people are killed in the pursuit of a dangerous profession they have freely chosen to do, but they will say nothing about the 42,000 who were killed on the highways when some drunk decided to drive home. I wonder how many of those greiving family members left the church house and went to the bars to ease their pain?

 

[MSinger]

I am sure the Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi clan are already concocting a story to blame this on Bush. You know everything bad that happens in this country is Bush's fault.

 

[huntn1]

it should be mandatory for them to have an air supply that last longer than 2 hours. i dont think any rescue has ever been that quick.

 

[Crazynuff]

I have experience in working in confined spaces and was trained in confined space rescue . There were too many things wrong here . One of the things this mine was cited several times for was not performing a preentry air quality test . Evidently this wasn't done in this case or the explosive gases would have been detected . I can see no excuse for the shaft having to be ventilated because of carbon monoxide before rescuers entered . Rescuers should expect and be prepared to enter conditions with poor air quality . Do firemen wait for smoke to clear before entering burning buildings ? Yes there are air supplies that last longer than 2 hours . I've worked men entire shifts using supplied air . The tanks are too heavy to wear but they have hoses going from them to full face masks . Tanks of breathing air should have been placed in the mine and made available to rescuers . They could have been rolled in on some type of cart .

 

[joebob1_30132]

please my brother ..union facilities have tragic accidentds also.. remember Give a chinaman a job ....join a union

 

[Crazynuff]

Any job is as safe or unsafe as its workers choose it to be . I've been to a lot of safety seminars . There are enough regulations to protect workers . They need to learn when to say no . If they are penalized for refusing to work in unsafe conditions they can get a lawyer . I've worked in some of the safest plants in the country and seen people ignore safety rules . Safety is up to each individual . I'm not pro-union but I read today that the Governor of Kentucky wants to make it a right to work state . He wants to attract more industry but the jobs will be much lower paying . Arkansas is a right to work state and wages there are way below wages paid in neighboring states .

 

[scootr68]

My condolences go out to each family,especially Fred Ware Jr. He was a former Panther II driver in trk 3191 a several years ago.

 

[greg334]

It is sad but I still go back to the fact that the news media has done all these families an injustice. There are facts now being quietly talked about that they did not want to report.

I know this does not mean much but most of my uncles, grandparents on both sides and a great number of relatives were or are still going into these mines. My grandfather for one was a fireman (which is not the same as a fireman in your town) and I learned a lot from him and my uncles about coal, copper and silver mines.

I have been in a mine (one copper, two coal and one salt) four times in my life and count myself as lucky not to do this work for a living and I am not an expert but I have to say it all sounds horrible that we as a nation are faced with 12 deaths from an accident that may or may not been possible to prevent, loss of any life is a loss to the nation. Looking back at my grandfather’s notes and realizing that 12 deaths were nothing when mine safety was in its infancy, I just can’t see where the blame should really be placed, if there should be someone to blame.

I some what agree with Crazynuff’s point about O2 bottles being placed where miners can get to them but I came to realize it is wishful thinking when you think of how the explosions take place and what damage an explosion can do. An O2 cylinder, even a small one can do a lot of damage if it explodes. There are too many factors involved and I can tell you that O2 is a problem not only for explosions but fires.

Sometimes these are not confined places we are dealing with, sometimes they very very large areas and the amount of co2 or methane that accumulates that the evacuation process for gases can take hours if not a few days. With O2, it adds to the danger by increasing the chances of another explosion; remember just because there is one source of methane does not mean that there could be another source created by an explosion.

Carrying O2 above what is given is not really an option also. When you go down into some of these mines it is hot (some mines reached 95 degrees) and humid and carrying heavy equipment is sometimes really a dangerous thing to do. And depending on the cut used to follow the vein (veins of copper for example may go all over the place) of what ever is being mined, you may end up with narrow slopes up and down between levels so carrying bottles of O2 would also be something you could to do safely.

Oh yea, a union would not have helped this situation at all.

 

[Crazynuff]

Supplied air used in confined spaces and rescue is not oxygen . It's breathing air - just regular air filtered and bottled . I have personally supervised man using this type air . They didn't carry tanks on them . Air was supplied through hoses from tanks 200 feet or more from their working location . If tanks of air were at different locations in the mine the men could have recharged their rescue tanks . Large air tanks could have been put on a cart and rolled to the men . The tragedy is these men were not " trapped " . There was no cave in . With sufficient air they could have walked out .