Reserve soldier gets pushy, cop slaps him down

AMonger · Feb 10, 2013

Cop is a marine. Though cop seems justified, is there a good guy here?

http://hw-mobile.worldstarhiphop.co...w6dgew5dwedewdwd4dewdewdfd34dswdwe_mobile.mp4

Turtle · Feb 10, 2013

AMonger said:
Cop is a marine. Though cop seems justified, is there a good guy here?

Cop steps forward in an aggressive move. I don't think the cop is justified at all. He was informed right up front that there was a physical altercation, and he should be aware that tempers might be running high. Dood called the police for help, and an aggressive cop is the last thing that's going to calm things down. Sucker punching someone who did nothing wrong is a little overboard, even for a Marine. <snort>

Here's how the video managed to surface:
Letter accuses Vallejo Police Department accused of "cowboy attitude" | abc7.com

AMonger · Feb 10, 2013

Turtle said:
Cop steps forward in an aggressive move. I don't think the cop is justified at all. He was informed right up front that there was a physical altercation, and he should be aware that tempers might be running high. Dood called the police for help, and an aggressive cop is the last thing that's going to calm things down. Sucker punching someone who did nothing wrong is a little overboard, even for a Marine. <snort>

Here's how the video managed to surface:
Letter accuses Vallejo Police Department accused of "cowboy attitude" | abc7.com

I don't think he stepped forward aggressively. His attitude was a bit overboard, right from the start, but not that much. When GI Joe stepped forward, saying, "US soldier, bra" or bro, whatever, and chest bumped the cop, that's where "it's on, now!"
Otoh, the cop should have de-escalated things rather than the reverse.
I'm going to run this past my cousin, who's a cop and former soldier/MP from the first Gulf War, and see what he thinks.

AMonger · Feb 10, 2013

Here's what my cop cousin thinks: It sounded to me like the cop was keeping calm until the kid started getting mouthy. The cop may have taken a step toward the kid and it sounded like the kid then stepped up to the cop... not good. The cops then took him down. The way the kid was talking to the cops, he could have been arrested for Obstructing a Peace Officer and maybe Assault if the cop thought the kid was going to hit him or spit at him.

The kid was upset because of the 45 minute wait and claimed to have called the station and spoke with the desk sergeant.. and even left a message. Is this a large city? Why did the kid have to wait? Maybe the cops were on a hostage call or investigating a domestic disturbance or a robbery and couldn't break away. Who knows? The cops normally respond to a call as soon as it is dispatched (everywhere I've worked) and may have to delay response to some calls because of more important "priority" calls. Whatever the reason for the wait, the kid was out of line. The cops didn't raise their voices until the kid was on the ground.

And don't call a cop "bro"..... I hate that.
We all know what a big fan I am of cops. Yet, with a couple of areas of disagreement, I think the cop was largely in the right here, ftmp. Yes, he could have de-escalated and told the kid, "You're this close..." instead of escalating, and "I don't run on your timetable" rather than a simple "I can only do one call at a time and I came as soon as the dispatcher sent me" set them in opposition at the outset. But the only real aggression I saw before the takedown was on the part of the caller. He, like the cop said, postured aggressively.
And I don't think that just because it was to a cop. Had he postured like that to either of us, or if I do it to you, that's assault, and when the bump comes into play, then it becomes battery.
Even though the cop might have done a couple things differently, I gotta go with the cop on this one.

Humble2drive · Feb 10, 2013

AMonger said:
Cop is a marine. Though cop seems justified, is there a good guy here?

I have seen much more professional Police Officers handle much worse situations in a calm manner and diffuse the situation.

That's all.

Turtle · Feb 11, 2013

The kid got mouthy when he told the cop it took them 45 minutes to get there (which is not an unreasonable voicing of frustration), and that's what the cop took exception to. It was then the cop took a step forward, to show who was in charge here, and it's right then and there it escalated the situation to a place it never should have gone. Everything from that first step onward on totally on the cop, I think. Everything that happened stems from that one step.

You want to read a scary sentence that's a thought right out of a cop's mind?

"The way the kid was talking to the cops, he could have been arrested for Obstructing a Peace Officer and maybe Assault if the cop thought the kid was going to hit him or spit at him."

The victim, who called the police for help, could be arrested for obstructing a peace officer because of the way he was talking to the police. Are you kidding me?

And if the cop THOUGHT the kid was going to hit him or spit at him? Seriously? Assault? For what a cop is afraid MIGHT happen? What if the kid thought the cop was going to hit him when the cop took a step towards him? Huh? What about that?

This whole "do as I say not as I do" mentality of cops is a load of crap.

I'm certainly not one to bash the police for fun and relaxation, but this cop is a tool of the first degree.

AMonger · Feb 11, 2013

Turtle said:
The kid got mouthy when he told the cop it took them 45 minutes to get there (which is not an unreasonable voicing of frustration), and that's what the cop took exception to. It was then the cop took a step forward, to show who was in charge here, and it's right then and there it escalated the situation to a place it never should have gone. Everything from that first step onward on totally on the cop, I think. Everything that happened stems from that one step.

You want to read a scary sentence that's a thought right out of a cop's mind?

"The way the kid was talking to the cops, he could have been arrested for Obstructing a Peace Officer and maybe Assault if the cop thought the kid was going to hit him or spit at him."

The victim, who called the police for help, could be arrested for obstructing a peace officer because of the way he was talking to the police. Are you kidding me?

And if the cop THOUGHT the kid was going to hit him or spit at him? Seriously? Assault? For what a cop is afraid MIGHT happen? What if the kid thought the cop was going to hit him when the cop took a step towards him? Huh? What about that?

This whole "do as I say not as I do" mentality of cops is a load of crap.

I'm certainly not one to bash the police for fun and relaxation, but this cop is a tool of the first degree.

Hmmm...this reminds me of another conversation we had, one in which we seem to be on different sides than we are now. Remember our thread about the motorcyclist who was axed if he had a gun, to which he replied, "I don't consent to any search," and it went downhill from there? I stated, "Cops don't have the right to not be afraid," and you replied that SCOTUS has found otherwise. Well, one difference between these two is that the kid in this latest video WAS behaving aggressively, a positive act that could cause fear, while the motorcyclist didn't take any positive action, yet your opinion is the opposite here. Why is that?
I agree with you that, if the cop took an unnecessary aggressive or threatening action, he would be the one that initiated the altercation, but I didn't see that, or at least, an unnecessary step forward. I remember the kid posturing aggressively like the cop said, and bumping him with his chest. If my recollection is accurate, then he deserved to be taken down.
Like the motorcyclist, though, better responses could have been given in each case that might have de-escalated the situations before they went south.

Turtle · Feb 11, 2013

I view this one differently because the situations are different. The motorcyclist evaded a simple, direct question when her could have given a simple, direct answer. In this latest video, the kid did behave aggressively, but only in response to the cop behaving aggressively first.

Maybe you can't see the cop taking that first step because the camera is mounted on his shoulder, I don't know, but even the kid noted that he didn't step towards the cop until the cop first stepped towards him, and the cop tacitly confirmed. But it's quite clear to me that the cop stepped first.

It's also quite clear to me that the video shows no chest bumping at all. There is some bustling, contract but it's unclear what out was exactly, out who it was that was trying to establish their dominance at that point, the citizen/soldier or the self-proclaimed more important cop/Marine.

Oh, maybe it is clear. It was clear enough to sometime in internal affairs to leak that video to the press, that's for certain. If the cop was in the right, that video wouldn't have been leaked a year and a half after the fact, it would have been billboarded and paraded out to the press days or weeks after the incident.

AMonger · Feb 11, 2013

Well, I wish I could watch it again. It plays fine on my laptop but barely plays on my device. Unwatchable, really.
Yes, the two situations are different, but in the opposite way. The motorcyclist didn't answer the way the cop expected, but it wasn't a positive act. The posturing, the implied threat, and the chest bump I believe I correctly recall are all positive acts. They are far more threatening than "I don't consent to any search."
I don't put any faith in what the kid said about the cop being the first one to step forward, but even if that's true, there's a time and place for a cop to step forward and be menacing. This kid should have shut his pie hole and gotten on with his report instead of "US SOLDIER, BRA!"

skyraider · Feb 11, 2013

If that kid had been talking to a Marine Drill Instructor , the Drill Instructor would not have been as kind as the cop. IMHO, knock the little sob out. The kid is a Pssy and was looking for trouble.

Tennesseahawk · Feb 11, 2013

The video isn't coming up for me. Sounds as if the cop refused to diffuse the situation, and instead, pushed it beyond what it should've been. Yes, the kid was in the wrong... but who is the professional here? Sounds like Jarhead cop has an anger management problem, boasting of his "US certified testosterone".

More and more cops are doing that... pushing a more aggressive citizenry over the edge; and moreso happens, a non-aggressive citizen gets abused. Not necessarily saying that this kid was non-aggressive, but the cop could have (God forbid) taken the role of public servant here, and apologized for the time table. It would've gone a long way to cooling the guy down.

Tennesseahawk · Feb 11, 2013

skyraider said:
If that kid had been talking to a Marine Drill Instructor , the Drill Instructor would not have been as kind as the cop. IMHO, knock the little sob out. The kid is a Pssy and was looking for trouble.

The kid just had the crap kicked out of him by his roommates, and his stuff trashed. Cops know the possibility of an aggressive complaintent going in to a call like this. In this case, he was a "peace officer" who did nothing to keep the peace... even acted against it.

witness23 · Feb 11, 2013

This quote is perfect for this thread;

Yeah Yeah, blah blah...

I hope the orignal poster of the above quote doesn't mind my use of it here.

Some of the comments in this thread are just plain laughable. Armchair quarterbacking at its finest.

I'm surprised we haven't seen this comment, "Kids today just do not respect authority figures like they used to".

AMonger · Feb 11, 2013

Tennesseahawk said:
Not necessarily saying that this kid was non-aggressive, but the cop could have (God forbid) taken the role of public servant here, and apologized for the time table. It would've gone a long way to cooling the guy down.

Agreed on that, or at least taken the middle ground & said, "Got here as fast as I could. We're busy today." What he did say escalated it.

Sounds like Jarhead cop has an anger management problem, boasting of his "US certified testosterone".

More and more cops are doing that... pushing a more aggressive citizenry over the edge; and moreso happens, a non-aggressive citizen gets abused.

Believe me, I'm the first to cry foul when that happens, which it does, all too often. But this was the reverse, and that's why I posted it. This time, it's the complainant (the proper spelling for someone else) whose testosterone is on the rampage: "US SOLDIER, BRA!"

Chest bumping an umpire gets you thrown out of a baseball game; it should get you taken down and cuffed when you do it to a cop. After that, maybe the cop might take into account how amped up you were and cut you some slack, like this one did.

Swamp30 · Feb 11, 2013

first off a cop is peace officer..he didnt attempt to keep the peace..secondly he should have taking the kid down if he felt he needed to the way he was trained not sucker punching the kid. and he is on their timewatch, he works for the civilians..cops get a god complex alot like they are above everyone else. i been in this situation before..un walton county florida..a cop was real aggressive with me and threating so when i reacted and defended the threat he wound up on the wrong end of the fight..i even used his radio to call for help for him..i did go to jail but think god hus camera was rolling on his dashcam because charges were eventually dropped.

Turtle · Feb 11, 2013

witness23 said:
This quote is perfect for this thread;

I hope the orignal poster of the above quote doesn't mind my use of it here.

Some of the comments in this thread are just plain laughable. Armchair quarterbacking at its finest.

I'm surprised we haven't seen this comment, "Kids today just do not respect authority figures like they used to".

Thank you for your thoughtful and intelligent additions to this thread.

Tennesseahawk · Feb 11, 2013

witness23 said:
This quote is perfect for this thread;

I hope the orignal poster of the above quote doesn't mind my use of it here.

Some of the comments in this thread are just plain laughable. Armchair quarterbacking at its finest.

Basically, what you're accusing us of... recreating the incident in our minds, and figuring out where it went wrong, is exactly what jurors are supposed to do.

I'm surprised we haven't seen this comment, "Kids today just do not respect authority figures like they used to".

I did say that, to a point. I said more aggressive citizenry (than we used to be). I blame that on not enough justified butt-whoopins. If you're not set straight as a kid, what makes you think you will be as an adult? And ya know what? These cops are coming from the same crop as Joe Q Public. A-hole citizenry = a-hole cops.

layoutshooter · Feb 11, 2013

"I did say that, to a point. I said more aggressive citizenry (than we used to be). I blame that on not enough justified butt-whoopins. If you're not set straight as a kid, what makes you think you will be as an adult? And ya know what? These cops are coming from the same crop as Joe Q Public. A-hole citizenry = a-hole cops"

You got it! Add to that children not being raised by their parents but being warehoused in one form or another from birth till the leave home. NO kind of morals being taught. Parents arrested for whooping a little butt when needed. Criminals getting expanded rights and every day law abiding citizens having theirs taken away. No WONDER we have a mess.