Reading the Help Wanted Ads on Expediters

[MissKat]

I found our first experience driving for FDXXCCWG (Fedex Custom Critical White Glove) owners by placing an ad for our team on Expediters. We received several responses, even though we did not have expediting experience, but 7 years as Tractor-Trailer drivers.

I wish I had done the following things when answering these owners and then, spending all of our hard-earned money to fly to New York (or anyplace else) to get into a truck, that over the telephone, was "sold" to be in great condition, well maintained, not micro-managed, etc.

1. Ask the owners why the truck is currently available.

2. Ask the owners for phone numbers of drivers that previously worked for them.

3. Gone online here and asked some questions about how to choose an owner and the benefits of a written agreement.

4. Received a copy of the above mentioned agreement and found someone to review it for holes. (there are some)

5. Asked what the truck averages for paid miles, downtime, criteria for accepting loads, average weekly pay in good times and bad.

6. Asked what the criteria is for fuel costs and what the owner covers, or not. How much the owner takes off the fuel card, and how much is left for deadheading to the next load.

7. Asked for a copy of the last 6 months maintenance performed on the vehicle.

8. I WISH I HAD DONE THIS: When you get to finally inspect said vehicle, and have reviewed its maintenance records, make sure you do a thorough inspection, write down every bent metal, every scratch, every smell in the carpet, every stain, take photos of everything, and HAVE THE OWNER SIGN IT.

9. I AM GLAD I DID THIS! Make sure you have enough money saved back to evacuate the program when it starts to go downhill. Don't wait until the owner has cancelled the fuel cards or demanded that you park the vehicle on the side of the road under a critical load because their wife is mad at them (and then it becomes your problem).

10. Finally, try to maintain contact with the owners in WRITING. TEXT, EMAIL, Send letters. Keep a paper trail of the stories, lies, demands, and loads they tell you not to take.
If they ask you why you are on a certain route that was given to you by dispatch and they don't like it, have them tell the carrier why they don't like it. Write down a daily log of communications with the owners, good and bad.

YOU WILL BE GLAD YOU DID.

Now, lesson learned, these same owners have fired or terminated, or micro-managed to death TWO of their teams at the SAME TIME, and are advertising once again here for team drivers.

They have purchased a new car, a new house, and badgered at least one of the teams in a TVAL truck to run harder so that the owners can pay their bills.

Now they only have THEMSELVES and three trucks leased to above carrier with payments, monthlies, etc. and NO DRIVERS.

I received a warning email in my quest for a job from someone warning me not to consider an owner (not this one) when I posted my team available ad last year. I have no idea how they sent that to me. In trucking forums elsewhere, there are good and bad ratings of major carriers to review, while on this site we are more polite for the most part.

We can talk good and bad about our carriers, and not naming names, each other with tongue-in-cheek comments on this site, and we know they are monitored by our carrier and its representatives.

I wish there was a way to keep newbies and frustrated folks out there looking to change owners informed about how desperate times make desperate owners.

We resorted to a Collection Agency and WWW.RIPOFFREPORTS.COM.:rolleyes:

Type in the name of any owner on here advertising for drivers and see what comes up. Then contact those drivers to see if it was a personal problem, or one that is so huge you will be liable for the owners' bad business decisions including DOT violations.

Miss Kat

 

[MissKat]

Oh, I forgot the fun part.

Don't forget about FACEBOOK. You can find almost anyone on this phenomenon. ASk the owner you are thinking about working for if they have a social networking site. Then go look at the photos!

Count how many photos of their trucks are on wreckers. Did you know you can post photos of the truck you are driving and then tag it with the owners' identity and it will automatically show up on their site?

You can also see how much farkleing, farming, fishtanking, and other somewhat wierd stuff the owners are doing while you are driving your life away and answering the phone about why you aren't running any harder.

Oh, lastly, you can see their new car or their new house or their new diamonds in the same fashion. And you can go to their other friends sites and still have access to them if they block you. I'm just sayin.

Have fun.

 

[moose]

Why don't you tell us how you really feel ?...

Oh.and here is another good read on the issue :

Expediters Online.com - The Expedited Freight Information Center

now , Jason also had something posted about 6 months or so ago ,but i couldn't find it ...

the problem we see with ripoffreport ,is that they donot verify the complains . it's just a CB on steroids . maybe a vent out option.

calling the carrier/drivers is an excellent idea .
but might be a mute point ,as some carriers ,or so i was reading here,are knowingly promoting questionable Owners .
and a frustrated drivers will never admit for doing any wrong . we all know that there are good owners AND good drivers out there ...

Still some good advices posted above ...heading toward a risk free expediters...

 

[ebsprintin]

Virtually everything you mention was available to you here on this sight before you pulled the trigger. In the interest of helping others not run into similar problems, can you think of what in your mindset kept you from digesting the information that was here for the taking? Too much of a hurry? Excited at the prospects of expediting?... Looking back, if you were to run across a post like you just wrote, you would have ignored everything you just said. So how does one get the point across?

eb

 

[jjoerger]

When we started 2 years ago we had no idea what we were getting into. I didn't even know EO existed.
Fortunately we started off with a good fleet owner. We had to quit due to a family emergency and when we came back we were lucky enough to find another good fleet owner. We have never been ripped off or felt we were being micro managed.
But now that we are owners of our own truck we are much happier. We go home when we want to, for as long as we want and make all of our decisions ourselves. Of course those repair bills, IRP tags, insurance bills, tolls, fuel taxes, QC fees, etc. are all our responsibility too.
If you like this business and have gained enough experience my advice is to get your own truck. We make more with a surface D unit then we did driving someone elses TVAL truck.

 

[MissKat]

QUOTE=ebsprintin;386958]Virtually everything you mention was available to you here on this sight before you pulled the trigger. In the interest of helping others not run into similar problems, can you think of what in your mindset kept you from digesting the information?


Hmmmm. Well eb sometimes a journalist has a different perspective and that's my background. Your point is well taken. I haved submitted several items in the newbie forum and some seemed to enjoy them.

I guess seasoned folks have taken off the rose colored glasses. I asked for a month before trigger pulling for a sample driver contract for example. one of the teams that just quit this owner thanked me for what I had tried to tell them in feb and they have 10 years exp. They just went to work for an experienced fleet owner.

Sorry to have wasted your time.eb. just thought someone might benefit as we are seeing many changes at the fed.
And ownerrs take it out on their drivers
Kat

 

[moose]

Fortunately we started off with a good fleet owner. We had to quit due to a family emergency .

May i ask ,how your 'good FO' handle that Emergency ?

 

[ebsprintin]

QUOTE=ebsprintin;386958]
Sorry to have wasted your time.eb. just thought someone might benefit as we are seeing many changes at the fed.
And ownerrs take it out on their drivers
Kat

No where did I say that you are wasting my time. Unless you choose to take offense to something I did not say.

Being a journalist you should appreciate this question. One person gives a bit of advice. Next person does not follow the advice until experience makes the advice sink in. This next person then passes on the advice to the next one in line, who then follows the familiar circle. My question again--how does one break the circle? I ask you because the experience should be fresh on your mind, and maybe you can come up with something about this thought process that can help others when giving or receiving advice.

eb

 

[pjjjjj]

Sorry to have wasted your time.eb. just thought someone might benefit as we are seeing many changes at the fed.
And ownerrs take it out on their drivers
Kat

MissKat, I'm sorry to hear about your misfortune. With all due respect, you seem to have taken eb's post the wrong way. I was very interested to hear your answer to it.

The reason is just as eb states, for some reason, it seems, at least to me, and now I see that at least one person sees the same thing, that when newbies read on EO, they somehow do not believe the information applies to them or their situation.

Interestingly, when I first started coming here, I was one of those people also. Not regarding your particular issues, but we would have been so much better off, had we actually known about EO before the big decisions were made, and actually believed what we read, and that it would also apply to 'us'.

I'm wondering if it is truly a rose-colored-glasses thing where people want to believe the best in people and companies, or a pompous I-can-do-better-than-that thing where a newbie perhaps sees faults in the writings and believes they can do it better (even with no experience!), or whether the info relayed is not done in a meaningful, believable way, or what exactly it is.

It would be great if we could collectively crack that nut to figure out a way to highlight to newbies so they can't possibly miss it, that yes, the stuff on this site DOES (or will, or most certainly could) apply to YOU too! The old standby advice of reading at least 2 years back is just excellent, but how to make them do it, BEFORE the contract is signed?

 

[ATeam]

I'm wondering if it is truly a rose-colored-glasses thing where people want to believe the best in people and companies, or a pompous I-can-do-better-than-that thing where a newbie perhaps sees faults in the writings and believes they can do it better (even with no experience!), or whether the info relayed is not done in a meaningful, believable way, or what exactly it is.

It is the former; wishful thinking clouds good judgment.

You can spot it almost every day at truck stop lunch counters. One disgruntled driver will turn to another and ask "How is it at (carrier name)?" Or how is (flatbedding, expediting, car hauling, whatever) working for you? If the answer given is listened to at all, only the parts the driver wants to hear are absorbed and acted upon. A move is made not because good research is done but because the pain of change is less than the pain of staying where the driver is at.

Careful research and critical thinking in job research is not often found in trucking because few trucker or expediter wannabees really know how to do it. What they lack in formal training they fill in with wishful thinking and do the best they can.

By virtue of Diane's and my college and graduate school educations and previous professional experience, industry research and critical thinking were things that we knew how to do before we considered expediting. We put over 1,000 focused hours into researching expediting and charting our course before jumping in. Consequently, we avoided many of the mistakes often expected of newbies and prospered almost from the very first day. Where mistakes were made, the lessons were quickly applied (most of the time), course corrections were quickly made and we remained on track.

I'm not saying this to boast but to highlight huge difference between truly researching the industry and engaging in the wishful thinking that is mistakenly counted as research by people who end up learning the hard way if they learn at all.

When you are researching a career opportunity that has a lot of appeal, it is very difficult to be objective about the career itself; and it is almost impossible to identify your personal blind spots that will tend to keep you from seeing the true picture.

Look at the people who justify their time at the slot machines. Logically, they will look you in they eye, tell you that the odds favor the house and believe every word of it. They know it is true. But emotionally, wishful thinking gets the better of them, the logic is ignored and they happily hand their money over to the house, motivated by the fantasy of the big win or the myth of being a player.

They KNOW the odds are against them but they put their money into the machine anyway because it feels good, at least for a while. They then justify the deed as entertainment expense or other such thing; making themselves right for ignoring the logic that would have kept their money in their pocket. Their goal was to increase the money in their pocket but their behavior emptied their pocket because the logic was ignored and wishful thinking prevailed and was defended.

Wishful thinking is not unique to trucking or gambling. It's everywhere, like in couples who meet in a bar but have no protection, young brides who see their bad-boy groom-to-be as the next best thing to Jesus, people who pay more for houses and cars than they know they can afford (the value will go up, I'll pay for it with my next raise), parents who lavish gifts on their children in hopes that the children will reciprocate with gratitude and love, parishioners who put their faith and funds in a charismatic preacher because they want so bad to be right and feel good about the preaching they choose to hear, etc., etc., etc.

Diane and I are not immune. There have been times that wishful thinking prevailed in our expediting career like when we were unhappy with a fleet owner and without real research saw the next fleet owner as the solution, or when we placed our faith in experienced vendors to build us a truck when we really should have known better and kept closer watch.

How do you protect people from their own tendency to hear what they want to hear and believe what they want to believe? If they are not open to coaching and not willing to rigorously explore their own personal shortcomings and blind spots, I don't think you can.

 

[MissKat]

Thanks to all of you experienced folks that responded to my post. I went out and came back and thought about your comments.

I do not know why we, as well as as others new to expediting, fail to heed the comments and information on this site.

The recent postings by Doc are extremely insightful, for example.

We were busy driving tractor-trailer after I posted the ad and when we arrived home responded to the messages left for us.

I did read a lot of the posts, but when, in a recession, the money gets tighter and tighter and you stay away from home longer and longer for less reward, one must "pull the trigger."

It took us about 3 weeks to decide to book the airplane tickets to NY to meet the owner and get in the truck after many phone calls and emails back and forth.

By the time we arrived in their home state, she was an hour late picking us up at the airport, the husband had been at the shop with the truck we were to drive and he told us it still wasn't fixed and we were trapped. We had no money to buy food, blankets, etc. and we had pre-shipped all of our clothing and equipment to their house, because of a false level of trust I had in what the wife was telling me about the truck's income, their lack of micro-management, etc. They had recently purchased two TVAL trucks, they said, sight unseen, and wrecked one on the way to the Fed for lettering. They left us sitting in their yard after being dispatched on a load. We were dispatched 2 days later on our first Fedex run.

We left them at the end of January, the circumstances of which were documented in the Newbie section some months ago. Stiffed in pay, we rented a van and drove to the next owner's truck, sitting in a truckstop with the heater on waiting for us.

We signed on to an owner with 9 trucks at the Fed, him having been there since 1992. This owner we almost never heard from. It was basically our business to work out of his truck.

We also learned some techniques along the way, and decided recently after reviewing many of the posts here and participating in them regarding the flood of low offers (especially that one weekend in Chicago) and trying to participate in the forums with you more experienced participants to ry to post again.

I received a message from my owner regarding the team that just left these owners asking me about them.

I contacted them and learned that they too have been burned by these former Four Star Owners. They are now with the 2nd owner we drove for.

And then, low and behold, here are the ads for team drivers by this owner, appearing this weekend for BOTH of their trucks.

It is not easy to be out 4-5 months at a time, working for a percentage, getting telephone calls at all hours of the day and night, asking why you are on a certain highway, why you took a certain load, that your fuel cards will be shut off and a wrecker will be dispatched to come and get your truck with you and all your stuff in it due to a family dispute that had nothing to do with us on Christmas Eve, and then, when you have legitimate questions about how to run the truck the owners do not return messages or calls, instead you can see them playing games on the computer while you sit in minus 10 degrees with a frozen air dryer.

They gave us 24 hours to return the truck to their mechanic of choice and we were able to do that under a load for the most part. Even while we were packing up the contents of the truck, Mrs. H called and demanded to know why we were parked in front of the the airport in her city and how soon would we deliver the vehicle.

Her own son signed for the truck, inspecting it in and out and taking the fuel cards, white glove equipment, etc. We were stiffed $800 in earned run pay and $1100 for an invoice for all of the pre-approved work my husband, a certified truck mechanic, had performed on their truck in order to keep it running because they could not afford to pay for repairs. We informed the owner 10 days prior to the termination call that it needed DOT compliant repairs. When we turned it in it was not DOT compliant, and needed work, which we notified the owners in writing and to safety at our carrier.

They did not pay us and we called OOIDA, who called Mrs. H.
We called a collection agency in their state. The next Friday they deposited a portion of the money due us, with no explanation as to where the rest of the money was, what they had withheld it for, etc. We have not heard from them since, and we have NOT NAMED THEM publicly.

Owners such as them should BE ASHAMED. They should have their agreement written by an attorney, not to claim in the middle of the employment period that their computer "forgot to insert that sentence" but we still needed to adhere to it for example.

I think the only way owners like this can be held at bay is to inform people (like me) that there are owners out there like this.

I for one, do not know how to convince someone, that it could happen to them. It happens to a lot of folks we have learned in our due diligence. There is no policing for this, and no recrimination against these types of owners.

I can only write what I know, and hope that someone might gain a kernel of understanding before they, like us, believe something to be true just because they said so.

Now our motto is this: "IF IT SOUNDS TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE, IT PROBABLY IS!"

and, attached to the bottom of our resume, is this:

"If you always tell the truth, you won't have to remember the lie you told."

LOL.

It's been real, thank you,
Miss Kat

 

[jjoerger]

May i ask ,how your 'good FO' handle that Emergency ?

In our case the problem was a frontal lobe brain tumor in a family member. My wife flew home to take care of him and I continued to run the truck as a solo for a few weeks while tests on him were done. The owner was considerate of the situation and offered to allow me to keep it as a solo until my wife could return. Since major surgery was involved and a considerable amount of recuperation was needed we did not know if or when she would return so we chose to give the truck back and tried to find local jobs.
The owner promised us a truck from his fleet when we were ready to return and offered to have someone pick it up from our home if I wanted to take it there instead of back to him.
I felt like this fleet owner actually cared and was sympathetic to the situation.

 

[greg334]

You know I don't get this part, a pair of drivers has an emergency which will take them off the road for a month, they preform great, turn in great numbers and so on. The owner tells them too bad, I have to get another pair for the truck, see ya.

Why?

If the relationship is there and it works, sometimes the money can be sacrificed.

I have dealt with this issue a few weeks ago, a father & son team has a dying mother to contend with and they were ready to leave completely to take care of her. I came up with a solution which the owner and I agreed to, use a backup solo driver to keep the truck moving to produce some revenue and wait for them to return. The losses are not as great as it would be trying to find a new team or having an idle truck. This wasn't just done out of compassion but because there is a relationship with the team that seems to be a bit more important than the money.

By the way Kat, thanks.

 

[jjoerger]

In our case we were gone for almost 4 months, not knowing if we would come back.
I don't fault the owner. He needs to make a living and has truck payments to make.

 

[cheri1122]

A lot of good stuff there, Miss Kat.
As to why folks simply don't internalize what they read and/or hear, it's because "you can lead a horse to water etc"

PS Dorothy Parker was once challenged to use the word 'horticulture' in a sentence, and her response was "You can lead a to culture, but you can't make her think."
You can rarely make anyone else think, either, if they don't want to....all you can do is try.

 

[ebsprintin]

Thank you, Miss Kat for being open and honest. --eb

 

[ATeam]

Owners such as them should BE ASHAMED.

But owners such as them are not ashamed and that is how they are able to successfully prey on drivers again and again.

Honest drivers become prey when they allow themselves to believe that the owner is as honest and well-intentioned as them. Drivers get into these situations by counting more on the good intentions of the owner (which the owner does not have) and not doing good business when creating the relationship in the first place (contracts, references, research).

Safety tip for newbies: At the first sign of an owner taking advantage of you (like giving you a dirty truck to clean before you get into it, putting you into a truck that needs repair before you drive it for the first time and costs you -- not the owner -- three days of down time while it is fixed, or asking you to wait for money due) RUN AWAY.

Never enter into a driver/owner relationship without having enough money in our pocket to get quickly out. Plan for the worst. Protect yourself from the worst. If your owner is in New York, know how much it will cost to drive the truck at your own expense from San Diego to turn it back it in.

It never pays to stay with a bad owner. It always pays to cut your losses and run away. Note the word losses. Be prepared to take them because you may have to. A preadator owner will otherwise count on the fact that you are trying to break even and string you along for as long as you can.

These people are highly skilled in finding your weak spots. They are good liars and lying is to them a skill to be exercised, not a deed to be ashamed of.

Note to owners: There are preadator drivers too but this thread is about owners so I'll leave it at that.

 

[jjoerger]

Maybe the carriers could become responsible and have some type of program where fleet owners who have been reported for not paying their drivers would have to prove that the drivers were paid before the carrier pays the fleet owner.

Kind of like the Mechanics Lien Law for the construction industry.

 

[Turtle]

The responsible thing would be to have the owner set up a pay schedule with the carrier, and indicate how the drivers are to be paid, be it 60% or 40%, who gets the FSC, and then the amount of assessorials, all of that worked out in advance so there are no misunderstandings. All set up in the computer, all automatic. Then, the carrier pays the drivers directly to the driver's Comdata card (or whatever), and pays the owners what they are due.

That would get a lot of owners out of the business, tho.

 

[greg334]

So when you say pay schedule, do you mean an actual schedule or a scheme?