Re: Going Broke

OntarioVanMan · Jun 26, 2011

Going Broke?

I find it odd that there is nothing mentioned about the changes at Fedex concerning WG/TVal.ie:company trailers...or the dropping rates...everything is rosey it appears

But then again we've just witnessed the warm fuzzies when someone proclaims something negative...can't blame the writer for not saying anything in public...least the door don't whack ya where the sun don't shine...

Each business plan in unique and so are each of our breakeven points.
We have been told we haul cheap freight and we have been told we are going broke. Oh dear Oh My well someone needs to inform our bank account that this is happening as our bank account does not appear to be going broke.

I separated the paragraph....First line certainly contradicts the next lines....why?
every truck IS unique to thier own plan of action...

layoutshooter · Jun 26, 2011

OntarioVanMan said:
Going Broke?

I find it odd that there is nothing mentioned about the changes at Fedex concerning WG/TVal.ie:company trailers...or the dropping rates...everything is rosey it appears

But then again we've just witnessed the warm fuzzies when someone proclaims something negative...can't blame the writer for not saying anything in public...least the door don't whack ya where the sun don't shine...

I separated the paragraph....First line certainly contradicts the next lines....why?
every truck IS unique to thier own plan of action...

I don't know about any one individual truck. The more people out there willing to work for next to nothing the lower rates will go.

greg334 · Jun 26, 2011

I can see this, as much as I can see what others think is success without the telling of the whole story.

One thing I think Linda hits right is that if this is such a problem, then why isn't she and Bob actually broke?

As for rates, if you blame the driver or owner for taking what works for them, then you need to examine the company for offering it in the first place.

Big Redd · Jun 26, 2011

It must be tragic to be so busy and so successful that you don't even realize you are going broke

layoutshooter · Jun 26, 2011

greg334 said:
I can see this, as much as I can see what others think is success without the telling of the whole story.

One thing I think Linda hits right is that if this is such a problem, then why isn't she and Bob actually broke?

As for rates, if you blame the driver or owner for taking what works for them, then you need to examine the company for offering it in the first place.

Companies can offer what ever they want. They would cut OUR rates in half if they could. If no one accepted those lower rates they would not go this low. It all comes down to this, as long as people are willing to work cheap, we all will.

Rates are going down. It is being masked by the FSC. Strip off the FSC, tolls etc and look at what the rate for hauling that freight really is. The "freight rate" as we call is NOT going up or even staying level. It is dropping.

Some trucks may be able to make a profit at lower rates. Sooner or later it is going to drop too low for a well maintained quality truck to make a profit. The quality of fleets will start to drop.

Slacktide · Jun 26, 2011

Lets just say for arguement sake that there are 1000 trucks in the FDCC fleet to keep the numbers easy to deal with. That would mean that there are ... oh ...lets say what... 1001 ways of making ones way in this business. That being the case I would say that no two trucks will run the same as another.

I understand the logic in thinking that those that run "cheap freight" are driving the rates for the rest down, but couldn't the inverse even that logic out. What I mean by that is, those that stick to thier guns for higher rates somewhat negate the "less desireable" rates that are taken by others?

I for one am O.K. with people taking what I would call "cheap freight"... someone has to haul those loads...just NOT ME. There has ALWAYS been and will always be "cheap freight". In the end you and only you can make the determination of what cheap freight is. With ALL of the posts discussing, knowing your overhead, it seems people would take what others run for with a grain of salt not knowing that persons overhead and operating costs are.

Would I like to see more drivers run for what I am willing to run for? SURE I WOULD. But there is this mantra out there that "if my wheels aren't turnin' I'm not earnin' " and those that preach that perpetuate the problem,IMHO. It seems I may have heard a better mantra somewhere.... what was that.... "drive less earn more" or something like that anyway.

layoutshooter · Jun 26, 2011

This has nothing to do with any individual truck or carrier. As the business changes so will rates with it. There very well come a day when there is no "D" TVAL trucks. It is more than possible to see how rates could drop low enough to make it impossible to operate a truck like that.

I can sure tell you one thing, when I got that TVAL offer that paid $.85 per mile I turned it down. It was never offered back at a higher rate so either someone took it at that rate, it was farmed out to a lower caliber outfit or a flat rater got it. So it will go.

moose · Jun 26, 2011

Big Redd said:
It must be tragic to be so busy and so successful that you don't even realize you are going broke

It's a slow death slavery .

but the good news is that it could not comes in a better timing.
with new SCR's trucks back orders, worthless DPF's trucks, and pre EGR'S models becoming too expensive to operate... the operations costs of the Caffcedia competitions will accelerate the revolving doors.

Slacktide · Jun 26, 2011

QUOTE: Layout

"I can sure tell you one thing, when I got that TVAL offer that paid $.85 per mile I turned it down. It was never offered back at a higher rate so either someone took it at that rate, it was farmed out to a lower caliber outfit or a flat rater got it. So it will go."

And was your reaction laughing your azz off causing you to fall out of the truck?

That sounds like a load that the dead head killed, a quick and timely death. I would hope that who ever took it anywhere near that rate delivered down the road from their house.

layoutshooter · Jun 26, 2011

Slacktide said:
QUOTE: Layout

"I can sure tell you one thing, when I got that TVAL offer that paid $.85 per mile I turned it down. It was never offered back at a higher rate so either someone took it at that rate, it was farmed out to a lower caliber outfit or a flat rater got it. So it will go."

And was your reaction laughing your azz off causing you to fall out of the truck?

That sounds like a load that the dead head killed, a quick and timely death. I would hope that who ever took it anywhere near that rate delivered down the road from their house.

I did nearly fall out of the truck I was laughing so hard. There was a lot of dead head but when we worked out the pay without the DH it only paid about $1.50 per mile. WAY too low for TVAL work.

TeamCaffee · Jun 26, 2011

OntarioVanMan said:
Going Broke?

I find it odd that there is nothing mentioned about the changes at Fedex concerning WG/TVal.ie:company trailers...or the dropping rates...everything is rosey it appears

But then again we've just witnessed the warm fuzzies when someone proclaims something negative...can't blame the writer for not saying anything in public...least the door don't whack ya where the sun don't shine...

I separated the paragraph....First line certainly contradicts the next lines....why?
every truck IS unique to thier own plan of action...

Thank you OVM as a fellow moderator for being so quick to throw my under the bus with out knowing any facts. I see that Joe was quick to follow suit and seemed to have forgotten that we are in a dry box. We were surface and had been on the WG list for years and when Molly passed away we were then allowed into WG. We are now seeing WG rates which are different than surface rates.

Last time we looked we do not have a reefer and we do not pull a trailer. I can only speak for what we are doing and what we are seeing for loads offers.

I have never seen a T-Val offer so can not speak for what is happening to their pay. I do not know what they were getting in the past per mile and we I have no clue what they are getting per mile now.

greg334 · Jun 26, 2011

Wow there is a great big assumption that the rates are going down more when they seem to be holding steady a bit for many.

layoutshooter · Jun 26, 2011

TeamCaffee said:
Thank you OVM as a fellow moderator for being so quick to throw my under the bus with out knowing any facts. I see that Joe was quick to follow suit and seemed to have forgotten that we are in a dry box. We were surface and had been on the WG list for years and when Molly passed away we were then allowed into WG. We are now seeing WG rates which are different than surface rates.

Last time we looked we do not have a reefer and we do not pull a trailer. I can only speak for what we are doing and what we are seeing for loads offers.

I have never seen a T-Val offer so can not speak for what is happening to their pay. I do not know what they were getting in the past per mile and we I have no clue what they are getting per mile now.

I thought I said that this had nothing to do with any individual truck, team or carrier. I don't believe that I was even implying that this had a thing to do with you or you truck. I am very sorry if you took it that way. I can assure you that it was NOT meant that way.

Big Redd · Jun 26, 2011

well I have seen lots of T val rates and with the exception of some very long dead head they are rarely under $2.00 per mile. And don't forget the "big picture",one load does not make a week.But then what do I know I've only been a single T val for 5 1/2 years. So I guess I'm really losing my shirt....

Moot · Jun 26, 2011

OntarioVanMan said:
I find it odd that there is nothing mentioned about the changes at Fedex concerning WG/TVal.ie:company trailers...or the dropping rates...everything is rosey it appears

I find it odd that you would post the above quote. I'm a little late to this ATeam, FedEx, TVal etc stuff. I've been too busy going broke for another company. But a quick perusal shows at least 3 or 4 threads dedicated to this subject. A few less threads than the Nissan cargo van though. How did you miss these threads? Is your computer set on metric or French?

Slacktide · Jun 26, 2011

Linda,

Not that Layout needs me to defend him in any way, but I don't believe he was in any way tossing you under the bus. I didn't take any of what he posted as dirrected at you. What I see after rereading the post was a natural progression of conversation, not to mention the disclaimer of no particular truck or carrier. He simply was relating to what he knows and that would be a "D, Tval" unit. Just my 2 cents.

layoutshooter · Jun 26, 2011

Big Redd said:
well I have seen lots of T val rates and with the exception of some very long dead head they are rarely under $2.00 per mile. And don't forget the "big picture",one load does not make a week.But then what do I know I've only been a single T val for 5 1/2 years. So I guess I'm really losing my shirt....

Look at the REAL rate on loads, remove tolls, FSC etc etc etc. How has that rate been holding? Going up? Down? Staying level? IF there was, say a $2 per mile average last year, and still $2 per mile earlier this year when fuel was way up, that base rate went down. Only the FSC made it up. That is NOT equal rates.

This is NOT about individual trucks, teams or carriers. Why are so many in here taking this personal?

moose · Jun 26, 2011

Moot said:
I find it odd that you would post the above quote. I'm a little late to this ATeam, FedEx, TVal etc stuff. I've been too busy going broke for another company. But a quick perusal shows at least 3 or 4 threads dedicated to this subject. A few less threads than the Nissan cargo van though. How did you miss these threads? Is your computer set on metric or French?

I find it odd that you find it odd that he find it odd that there is more to the FX party. after all he is now a moderator, and have a reputation to maintain. a quick search will unveil that there might not be as many posts regarding the impressive Nissan van, but not it is the case regarding the flowered shorts !, he is a smart guy, there's an Expo coming up, and the professional pot stirring camouflage is just a distraction. there's something very fishy going on...