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guest
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What about some drivers who pay for QC too 
Questioning 60/40 split for contractors
- Thread starter Suds43
- Start date
FAMILYEXPDT
Seasoned Expediter
None of our drivers pay for qc
-charlotte
-charlotte
As i read this post I am realizing that there are many many
different "pay" arrangements other than saying 40/60 or 60/40.
Things like deadheading home, truck washes, and QC have been
mentioned.
Since I work for the 1st owner we started with my knowledge
is limited.
On our 60/40 plan my costs are fuel and tolls. These are the only
two expenses for the truck I pay.
Truck washes and oil changes are re-imbursed on the settlement
100%.
If I want to buy a rug for the condo floor.....re-imbursed,
windshiled wipers....re-imbursed, seat covers....re-imbursed,
cb radio......re-imbursed, dolly.....re-imbursed and anything
else I needed for the truck to make money the owner pays.
I can see the reason for liking a 40/60 split.
It frees you to just drive.
I enjoy the hands on environment the 60/40 provides and
the 6 to 7% pay I receive.
Do the math, multiply the gross your truck is making by
.07. That is a good aproximation of additional income
I receive vs a 40/60.
For us, thats works, all the way to the bank.
Dave
D6847
Fedex CC WG
different "pay" arrangements other than saying 40/60 or 60/40.
Things like deadheading home, truck washes, and QC have been
mentioned.
Since I work for the 1st owner we started with my knowledge
is limited.
On our 60/40 plan my costs are fuel and tolls. These are the only
two expenses for the truck I pay.
Truck washes and oil changes are re-imbursed on the settlement
100%.
If I want to buy a rug for the condo floor.....re-imbursed,
windshiled wipers....re-imbursed, seat covers....re-imbursed,
cb radio......re-imbursed, dolly.....re-imbursed and anything
else I needed for the truck to make money the owner pays.
I can see the reason for liking a 40/60 split.
It frees you to just drive.
I enjoy the hands on environment the 60/40 provides and
the 6 to 7% pay I receive.
Do the math, multiply the gross your truck is making by
.07. That is a good aproximation of additional income
I receive vs a 40/60.
For us, thats works, all the way to the bank.
Dave
D6847
Fedex CC WG
There will ALWAYS be debate for and against whom does what to whom in this business. The best policy (i've found) is to never own more trucks than you can drive yourself at the same time. Problem solved. Havin typed that.... i'm "kinda" looking around for someone to take over the truck I drive. Looking in the classifieds here I found one that should be highly sought after.
The fella wants.....
Owner to cover interview costs from AZ
Medical insurance and a minimum of 60K
Will run for 5-8 days out (solo)
Will not pay fuel or tolls
There you go fleet owners, I certainly won't get in your way on that one.
The fella wants.....
Owner to cover interview costs from AZ
Medical insurance and a minimum of 60K
Will run for 5-8 days out (solo)
Will not pay fuel or tolls
There you go fleet owners, I certainly won't get in your way on that one.
The fella wants.....
Owner to cover interview costs from AZ
Medical insurance and a minimum of 60K
Will run for 5-8 days out (solo)
Will not pay fuel or tolls
==============================
Sounds like a full fledged steering wheel holder . Then again, you could charge by the mile when he wants to go home and make your revenue that way.:7
And on a side note, not sure why a owner would charge the driver for the QC unless it is just a straight lease on the truck with the truck owner having no involvment. Much like a dealer just leasing a driver a truck.
And lastly,
Keeping the sometimes open mind that I have, I would love to see a scenerio of any type with actual NUMBERS over a period of time in which the driver comes out ahead on a 40/60 split. The only one I see is if they deadhead 50 percent or greater through that period or the owner taking a percentage of the FSC. Gross numbers don't have a value unless you see ALL of the numbers involved.
Davekc
owner
23 years
PantherII
EO moderator
Owner to cover interview costs from AZ
Medical insurance and a minimum of 60K
Will run for 5-8 days out (solo)
Will not pay fuel or tolls
==============================
Sounds like a full fledged steering wheel holder . Then again, you could charge by the mile when he wants to go home and make your revenue that way.:7
And on a side note, not sure why a owner would charge the driver for the QC unless it is just a straight lease on the truck with the truck owner having no involvment. Much like a dealer just leasing a driver a truck.
And lastly,
Keeping the sometimes open mind that I have, I would love to see a scenerio of any type with actual NUMBERS over a period of time in which the driver comes out ahead on a 40/60 split. The only one I see is if they deadhead 50 percent or greater through that period or the owner taking a percentage of the FSC. Gross numbers don't have a value unless you see ALL of the numbers involved.
Davekc
owner
23 years
PantherII
EO moderator
Jefferson3000
Expert Expediter
Hey Suds,
I may have an answer for the question you gace Leo.
The 60/40 split w/ driver receiving fsc is not just about watching out for idle waste. It is surely also about mentorship. Most fleet owners would agree that they are aware up front that a team or single will probably not drive their truck for years and years. If the drivers so choose, they will probably save to put a nice down payment on a truck of their own. Having a driver pay the fuel is a lesson that an O/O will need in the long run. You don't learn it any other way than by doing it yourself. By giving them the fsc and letting them pay for fuel, they are teaching that driver to being independent.
Drive Safe!
Jeff
Driver for 15 years
O/O for 13 years
OOIDA #829119
[em]"Let us be thankful for the fools. But for them the rest of us could not succeed." --Mark Twain[/em]
I may have an answer for the question you gace Leo.
The 60/40 split w/ driver receiving fsc is not just about watching out for idle waste. It is surely also about mentorship. Most fleet owners would agree that they are aware up front that a team or single will probably not drive their truck for years and years. If the drivers so choose, they will probably save to put a nice down payment on a truck of their own. Having a driver pay the fuel is a lesson that an O/O will need in the long run. You don't learn it any other way than by doing it yourself. By giving them the fsc and letting them pay for fuel, they are teaching that driver to being independent.
Drive Safe!
Jeff
Driver for 15 years
O/O for 13 years
OOIDA #829119
[em]"Let us be thankful for the fools. But for them the rest of us could not succeed." --Mark Twain[/em]
Here's a big issue that I haven't noticed being discussed.
60% of what?
Panther has two contracts, the old one pays, I believe, 10 cents more per mile.
Additionally, fleet owners may take 40% of fuel surcharges and accessorials too (I know one that does), others may take 40% of some accessorials ( I know one that takes 40% of Canada pay, go figure).
A current owner operator with Panther gets $1.20 per mile, come and drive my truck for 60% and you are making 72 cents.
A fleet owner (3 or more trucks)gets $1.30. Drive their truck and recieve 78 cents.
Drive for 60% for a fleet owner on the old contract of $1.35 and you recieve 81 cents.
Unless they are taking 40% of your fuel surcharge and accessorials too...
This is stuff to find out before you drive for someone else.
It looks like the 40/60 is working for some here.
60% of what?
Panther has two contracts, the old one pays, I believe, 10 cents more per mile.
Additionally, fleet owners may take 40% of fuel surcharges and accessorials too (I know one that does), others may take 40% of some accessorials ( I know one that takes 40% of Canada pay, go figure).
A current owner operator with Panther gets $1.20 per mile, come and drive my truck for 60% and you are making 72 cents.
A fleet owner (3 or more trucks)gets $1.30. Drive their truck and recieve 78 cents.
Drive for 60% for a fleet owner on the old contract of $1.35 and you recieve 81 cents.
Unless they are taking 40% of your fuel surcharge and accessorials too...
This is stuff to find out before you drive for someone else.
It looks like the 40/60 is working for some here.
I would agree with your statemnet of the owner taking 40 percent of the FSC. That would be a deal breaker if the driver is paying for the fuel. The other items like Canada wouldn't be that big of an issue unless your going to Canada with alot of frequency. On that you are talking a difference of $14.80 per crossing if that compensation is 37.00
Taking a percentage of the FSC would have a huge impact.
Davekc
owner
23 years
PantherII
EO moderator
Taking a percentage of the FSC would have a huge impact.
Davekc
owner
23 years
PantherII
EO moderator
lisalewis
Seasoned Expediter
If two identical trucks run the same loads with the same FSC and buy the same price of fuel...after you crunch the numbers the drivers on the 60/40 split probably do make more. BUT we have to look at the BIGGER picture. As we sit here (having our slowest week all year) I'm not freaking out like I did with our last owner because even though we've only ran a few loads this week we will still get paid...period (because we don't have to pay for the fuel). I can't even tell you how many times (with our last owner) that we'd fill up and our pro was canceled, or we had to idle during slow weeks because of temperature so we'd literally watch our paycheck shrink with every hour (sometimes into the negative), and I won't even get into all the miles (and fuel) spent dead-heading. After all the fights the hubby and I had over where to get fuel, how much fuel to get, how long to idle, what speed to travel (you get the picture) make this time around seem like night and day. Now when we get a load I take the miles X .52 and thats our pay...easy as that.
You actually have a valid point on one issue. That is I can see you spending and stressing more with a truck that doesn't have a generator. All of our trucks have one so idling really isn't a huge issue.
I think one can make money either way, it is just a matter of how much. Just hadn't seen a valid argument that a 40/60 split would pay more.
Davekc
owner
23 years
PantherII
EO moderator
I think one can make money either way, it is just a matter of how much. Just hadn't seen a valid argument that a 40/60 split would pay more.
Davekc
owner
23 years
PantherII
EO moderator
EASY, isn't always mo betta. Idling is foolish. There are ALWAYS better places to spend your waiting time than setting in a truck, at a Truck Stop looking out the window. Parks offer neat places to be in the summer. Winter, malls by the fountain seem to ring a bell. Spending yourself broke or, to the point of arguments to sit in a truck looking out the window, is not a good thing.
jansiemoo
Seasoned Expediter
For my driving partner and I, we prefer the 40/60 split because we don't want to do any more math!
We are only co-workers, and if we had to make any more decisions about fuel purchase/usage/conservation than we already do, I think we'd kill each other. Seriously, we have a generator, and we try to fuel in 'obviously' cheaper areas, but when I start running the numbers of "if we do this..." Well, I'd probably want me to shut up, too.
I like looking at how it all works out, but it would be much easier if the money were going to one household. I am paying attention to the information for if/when I buy my own truck, but the idea of buying our fuel out of our 40% advance onto the t-chek card (then divided by two) until the settlement comes in is not something I can do at this time.
I started with a sizeable savings when I began driving in April, but the first truck/owner I was with had some major issues that seriously undermined my earning potential- already limited by my inexperience.
You won't make money sitting in a shop every week.
Oddly, our new owners just mentioned possibly changing our contract to allow us 45% advance and pay for fuel out of that, with her paying the cost of fuel back to us at the end of each week. Obviously, we'd make more money doing this, but it concerns me that they may not have enough money to float the cost of fuel for the week?? It's mainly because of the discount our t-chek card gets at Flying -J, but I wonder.
It's not set in stone, but could happen in Jan08. I have set out to make a more determined effort to reduce fuel costs, but I'm not sure what else to do.
We are only co-workers, and if we had to make any more decisions about fuel purchase/usage/conservation than we already do, I think we'd kill each other. Seriously, we have a generator, and we try to fuel in 'obviously' cheaper areas, but when I start running the numbers of "if we do this..." Well, I'd probably want me to shut up, too.
I like looking at how it all works out, but it would be much easier if the money were going to one household. I am paying attention to the information for if/when I buy my own truck, but the idea of buying our fuel out of our 40% advance onto the t-chek card (then divided by two) until the settlement comes in is not something I can do at this time.
I started with a sizeable savings when I began driving in April, but the first truck/owner I was with had some major issues that seriously undermined my earning potential- already limited by my inexperience.
You won't make money sitting in a shop every week.
Oddly, our new owners just mentioned possibly changing our contract to allow us 45% advance and pay for fuel out of that, with her paying the cost of fuel back to us at the end of each week. Obviously, we'd make more money doing this, but it concerns me that they may not have enough money to float the cost of fuel for the week?? It's mainly because of the discount our t-chek card gets at Flying -J, but I wonder.
It's not set in stone, but could happen in Jan08. I have set out to make a more determined effort to reduce fuel costs, but I'm not sure what else to do.
tallcal101
Veteran Expediter
Charlotte,I did everything you do fo 6 years for the same reasons you do it now.I had many teams stay with me for over 2 years,in some cases 3 years.Treat them like the hardworking people they are and with respect and they stick around(until they can buy their own truck)which I applaud them for doing.But that was then.Today,I find it hard to believe that the numbers that are being posted here really work.Not calling anyone a lier.I just did not see enough of a profit to afford my California lifestyle the last few years.I do live in the San Francisco Bay Area,which is the most expensive place to live in the US (which may account for my problem).Never the less,the first 5 years I made great money,and it was well worth the midnight phone calls etc.But not the last 2 years,thats for sure.
And thats my point.I really applaud and have great respect for fleet owners who are not just paying bills or scapping by.You have figured something out that was beyond my ability come to grips with.Keep on truckin',I'll keep on movin'.
And thats my point.I really applaud and have great respect for fleet owners who are not just paying bills or scapping by.You have figured something out that was beyond my ability come to grips with.Keep on truckin',I'll keep on movin'.
In response to message #0
For my driving partner and I, we prefer the 40/60 split because we don't want to do any more math!
=======================================
Ummm???? Paying 1200 to 1500 a month for someone to do the math for you seems alittle pricey. But, your certainly not alone. Look at the current mortgage crisis. Most of it is buying too much house with too little money. Gotta agree with the COL. easier doesn't necessarily translate into better.
Davekc
owner
23 years
PantherII
EO moderator
For my driving partner and I, we prefer the 40/60 split because we don't want to do any more math!
=======================================
Ummm???? Paying 1200 to 1500 a month for someone to do the math for you seems alittle pricey. But, your certainly not alone. Look at the current mortgage crisis. Most of it is buying too much house with too little money. Gotta agree with the COL. easier doesn't necessarily translate into better.
Davekc
owner
23 years
PantherII
EO moderator
Suds43
Seasoned Expediter
I think I might have been misunderstood when I said that I'd call the owner about certain loads........someone commented on not wanting drivers to call 24/7.
We were basically trusted to make the best decision on the load offers. We would contact the owner only if one was quetionable. After all, he had over 20 yrs. OTR experience as an O/O that we could draw from.
The only time we'd call questioning a move was when we had been sitting for a day and no prospects for a load (sitting in a bad area, etc)and couldn't get dispatch to move us....The owner would get the company on the horn and persuade them a little...
As far as getting home at who's expense, the owner wanted us out for 3 weeks, then "work" our way home. He wanted the truck home so he could "go over it" mechanically and fix what needed to be fixed.
Just because the 3 weeks were up didn't mean we made a beeline for the house. Dispatch would work with us heading us in the right direction. One time we did have to come home for some scheduled appoitments....we paid for the fuel, no problems.
The owner paid for the fuel and ALL truck expenses......anything to do with the truck the owner took care of, no questions asked. We religiously kept track of mileage for oil changes, etc while on the road. Had the truck washed at least once a week (owners request) paid by the owner. It's a trust between owner and driver that is built up over time.
We didn't take advantage of anything, only idled when needed....basically depending on the weather. Used IdleAir when ever possible. And by not taking advantage of the owner he'd pay for tolls etc.....even offered a motel room at his expense once in awhile to just kick back, relaxe and get out of that truck!!
Again, thanks for all the responses........I understand the 60/40 vs 40/60 split a little better........but still think the later is better for us......
Ya'll have a great day!!!!!
We were basically trusted to make the best decision on the load offers. We would contact the owner only if one was quetionable. After all, he had over 20 yrs. OTR experience as an O/O that we could draw from.
The only time we'd call questioning a move was when we had been sitting for a day and no prospects for a load (sitting in a bad area, etc)and couldn't get dispatch to move us....The owner would get the company on the horn and persuade them a little...
As far as getting home at who's expense, the owner wanted us out for 3 weeks, then "work" our way home. He wanted the truck home so he could "go over it" mechanically and fix what needed to be fixed.
Just because the 3 weeks were up didn't mean we made a beeline for the house. Dispatch would work with us heading us in the right direction. One time we did have to come home for some scheduled appoitments....we paid for the fuel, no problems.
The owner paid for the fuel and ALL truck expenses......anything to do with the truck the owner took care of, no questions asked. We religiously kept track of mileage for oil changes, etc while on the road. Had the truck washed at least once a week (owners request) paid by the owner. It's a trust between owner and driver that is built up over time.
We didn't take advantage of anything, only idled when needed....basically depending on the weather. Used IdleAir when ever possible. And by not taking advantage of the owner he'd pay for tolls etc.....even offered a motel room at his expense once in awhile to just kick back, relaxe and get out of that truck!!
Again, thanks for all the responses........I understand the 60/40 vs 40/60 split a little better........but still think the later is better for us......
Ya'll have a great day!!!!!
good answer this is what i was trying to mention in one of my earlier post.but some how it got thrown off on Qc topic.this is our current situation.our current truck owner tells us nothing shares no ideas,suggests nothing as a matter of fact if we don't call them we would never hear from them. heck we can't even get something as simple as a settlement sheet Emailed to us. haven't had one for fixing to be 4 weeks now.how is anyone suppose to learn about something they don't
know anything about even when you ask questions and try booking your own loads,keep track of every trip you do.it don't help if you still don't get any guidance or mentoring from a truck owner but still I don't know if we would do 60/40 or not would have to be on that side of the fence.things like where and when to buy fuel,whats the best area to be in @ a certain time.all of this is a learning process but if you just went out and try it on your own you would end up broke we are living proof of that. we almost got evicted from or home a few weeks ago because we where 2 months late with our rent and we have never ever been late till we come to work with panther/truck owners.this is what is was trying to say in an earlier post topic.
If a man speaks on the beach where no woman can hear is he still wrong?
know anything about even when you ask questions and try booking your own loads,keep track of every trip you do.it don't help if you still don't get any guidance or mentoring from a truck owner but still I don't know if we would do 60/40 or not would have to be on that side of the fence.things like where and when to buy fuel,whats the best area to be in @ a certain time.all of this is a learning process but if you just went out and try it on your own you would end up broke we are living proof of that. we almost got evicted from or home a few weeks ago because we where 2 months late with our rent and we have never ever been late till we come to work with panther/truck owners.this is what is was trying to say in an earlier post topic.
If a man speaks on the beach where no woman can hear is he still wrong?
I don't think there is right or wrong with 60/40 or 40/60. It really depends on all the variables. I have worked for the 60/40 plus fsc. Which was a great deal. But I am now with a new owner on a 40/60 deal that I think is the best. I pay for absolutely nothing out of my pocket. The owner pays for everything. I take the fsc off the top and draw my 40% when I haul the load. Get paid when I do the job. No paychecks involved. May not be for some. But I absolutely love it this way. We have a pay for all miles minumum that the truck must run at. And we don't run for any less then that. So its a win/win for both parties. The biggest downfall of a 40/60 is if the driver runs any load given to him regardless of the rate. Because the owner would possibly just be buying fuel. And the driver would be getting 40% of something. 40/60 works. But the driver has to look after the owners best interest. Just my 2 cents.