Pull around back Driver!

[guido4475]

After reading all of this, I went to my little dot regulations book I have, and cannot seem to find anything that clearly says what cargo vans can and cannot dr vehicles under 10,000 gvw, what they are exempt from.I'd like to know where this is,So if I am ever pulled over, I have it ready to prove.An yone know where this is? What regulation # is this?

 

[hz909]

This is what I had in my book. A log page, previous 7 days inclusive, OFF DUTY. Then current day logged.

I was told explicitly that I can't treat the last 7 days as just off duty.

If you want to use a logbook to record your previous 7 days use line 4: On Duty Not Driving if in those 7 days you were not required to log.

Any compensated, non-CMV work you do should be logged as 'On Duty, Not Driving'. Moot wins the crown.

Now, if you're asking why you have to log the time you spent driving as "not driving," then I'll ask you why you're trying to interject common sense into interpreting DOT laws. The more you do so, the more frustration you'll receive.

Otherwise fill out a Previous 7 Days Certificate.

Moot is stripped of his crown for providing the name of an ungoogeable document.

Here's the thing... if I fill out an exactly log for those previous 7 days... and I ran a 740 mile van load.(just throwing an example)...

Say... I was actually driving 14 hrs.

2 hrs wait time at the dock... (unusual, but happens)..

I was then on duty for 16 hrs... slept 6 hrs, got a run, and took off again.

I will quote the infallible OOIDA:

What happens if a driver is on-duty for 14 hours, but not driving?

"If a driver is on-duty, but not driving, on a particular day, the driver may remain on-duty for more than 14 hours; however, the driver cannot drive past the 14th hour after coming on-duty. Also, the additional on-duty time will also reduce subsequent on-duty time available under the 60- or 70-hour rule."

You can be on duty for 16 hours. Heck, you can be on duty for 24 hours or more in a row, if you want. Just be sure to take a ten hour break before you drive as a CMV and don't go over your 70. See? Simple.

If I log that.. and am subject to HOS today because of Hazmat load.. in my mind.. this officer would try to say I went over HOS 4 days ago when I ran that long load.

Yep. If you log something longer than a 14 hour duty period, you're asking for trouble. Even though you're totally allowed to do so. See? Simple again.

So, by logging it.. I just open up a whole can of worms.

Your first post is evidence of the can of worms that are opened by NOT logging it.

Look, you're ****ed if you do and ****ed if don't. Pick your poison.

After reading all of this, I went to my little dot regulations book I have, and cannot seem to find anything that clearly says what cargo vans can and cannot dr vehicles under 10,000 gvw, what they are exempt from.I'd like to know where this is,So if I am ever pulled over, I have it ready to prove.An yone know where this is? What regulation # is this?

Why, oh, why would your little green book have anything that covered this? Since when do DOT rules, and more specifically, the HOS rules, attempt to make sense and apply to on 24/7 expediters; especially those splitting time between CMV and non-CMV loads?

 

[pjjjjj]

I think it's not what you can read about what a CV can and can't do, it's about reading all the rules applying to a CMV, which a van is not, (if it's under 10K GVWR, and it's not carrying hazmat of a quantity requiring placarding). Suddenly all the CMV rules become applicable when carrying placarded haz, except for the ones only applying to over-26K-GVWR vehicles.

It's interesting that a so-obviously-incompetent officer would be repeatedly bringing attention to his own incompetence. How could someone be doing a job for 25 years and not know his stuff? Wow, that's something to brag about!

We were asked one time by a DOT in ON for our CVOR (our ON/Canadian operating authority), produced the copy, and were told we must carry the original at all times. Said he would let it go 'this once', but next time we'll be fined. At the time, we were leased on with a carrier, informed the carrier of what happened, and were told, um no, we have x number of trucks and you can't all have the original, dohh.

Later we got our own authorities, and very clearly on the paperwork, it stated that the original is to be kept in the office and each truck is to carry a copy. I called the DOT number listed on the paperwork, asking why then, would we have been asked for the original, threatened with fines, and told we must carry the original. Well, no idea, since all the officers have been highly trained, and know all the rules. Ok, even though that's so reassuring, what do we do next time this happens. He said to go into the booth, ask them to call this toll-free number, and they will set them straight.

As a sidenote, in my journey through life, I have found that the people who feel compelled to bring loud and obnoxious attention to their 20/25/30 years in an industry/job, intimating that they are therefore experts, tend to be the most incompetent of all. Big red waving flapping flags to stay away from whenever possible. There is no learning happening there, no admission of even the possibility of error, no flexibility to see or try something a different way, no listening, only loud talking.

Congrats on getting through that experience relatively unscathed Dreamer!

 

[cruzer]

Pjjjjj is rite about all that experience can sometimes add up to nothing,there seems to be a lot of that on EO at times,especially in the truck talk forum.

 

[greg334]

You know guys/gals I got to tell you it doesn't matter what you think, it matters what you are told at the time. If you have the time and the money to go against a LEO, then great. I don't. If I am given advice that counters what a LEO says, then who is wrong? I am.

My experience with this gig and owning a bunch of box trucks traveling around the east coast in the past makes me think that if I argue with the man, I may be sorry. When someone who has the power to ruin my day stands there and tells me I am wrong and then I try to show him he is, I may be off the road for 10 hours in a van or worst. So what am I going to do but to listen, do what I am instructed to do and take my lumps. If he writes me a ticket and lets me go, then I have recourse to bring it to the court with proof he is wrong but he has the power, not you.

Some of these guys/gals don't care about logs, they want to make sure things are safe. While others are real pr*cks, like the Ohio LEO who inspected my truck on US23, he wrote me up for everything because he didn't like expediters - he lectured me on everythng from light bulbs to logs to tire care. Then after all of that, he ripped up the other problems and tagged me for brakes. I have had the military types who wanted to command the situation and I have had the idiot who could not tell what was wrong with the truck but had to fill his qouta. The two hassles in the van was out of four inspections that I had in my van and it didn't matter what I was told about van logging, it was their opinion and theirs counted.

In Michigan the laws are clear - any vehicle that is used for commercial purposes is a commercial vehicle - period. They are supposed to be marked as a commercial vehicle (no exceptions) and they are supposed to be licensed and insured as such. There are still three definitions by weight of what is considered a truck, and not one of them above 10k. The last time I checked in March, the law that defines a commercial vehicle that has to scale is still at far under 10k lbs, not 10,001lbs but they no longer enforce it. Instead they are using mobile inspections to pull people over and check them. Yesterday on I96, they had a lot of trucks, and even pickups pulled over and being inspected.

 

[Moot]

Moot is stripped of his crown for providing the name of an ungoogeable document.

Here is a picture of the Hours of Service Certificate I use.

 

[guido4475]

Wouldn't you believe, that the company I work for, their ins. co wants me to keep a logbook, even though I am in a van.They say they want this done so when they or the dot comes in to do an audit, there is no confusion as to why there are no logs in my file, even though I am in a van.If I would of known this,I would of bought a cube box van instead!! Goes to show how much power ins. co's have over the dot/trucking co's.

 

[Moot]

Ask your carrier to check with the insurance company to see if the Hours Of Service Certificate will satisfy their log requirement.