Problems Managing Your VA Benefits? No Guns For You!

Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
In another jaw-dropping gun grab from the Obama administration, it appears that any veteran needing assistance managing his finances or VA benefits can be deemed "mentally unfit" and placed on the NICS ban list prohibiting them from purchasing firearms.
Chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa) has sent a letter to Attorney General Eric Holder expressing deep concerns over Veterans Affairs evaluations classifying veterans as "mentally defective" and banning them in the federal background check system from purchasing or owning a firearm.

According to Grassley's office, the VA "reports individuals to the gun ban list if an individual merely needs financial assistance managing VA benefits," keeping them from exercising their Second Amendment rights...

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiep...o-many-veterans-on-your-gun-ban-list-n1985787
Considering the complexity and confusion involved when dealing with almost ANY govt agency - but especially the incompetence of the VA over the past decades - this action could effectively prohibit firearms ownership for an extremely high percentage of our nation's veterans. It's no wonder why the Obama administration is ofter described as "tyrannical" and compared to Hitler's Nazi party.:wtf:

For those veterans and concerned citizens among us who are inclined to write, call or email their elected representatives on occasion, now would be a good time to do so.
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
What's "jaw dropping" is the insistence on reading into something what isn't there: the evaluation does not pertain to obtaining benefits [which, as we know, any 3rd grade dropout can achieve], but in managing the benefits received. As in budgeting & prioritizing monies - at least as well as the average person. Which isn't a real high bar to clear.
If they don't have the mental capability to do that, they clearly don't have the mental capability to be trusted with weapons [which they have already been well and thoroughly trained to use.]
Let's not pretend that what they've seen and done in their service overseas [in addition to any physical trauma/loss they may be dealing with] has no effect on their mind, because we know better. They wouldn't be human if it didn't. Most manage the PTSD well enough, but some are severely affected, and until they are recovered, they should not have possession of weapons - that's just common sense.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
So, good financial and math skills should be a requisite for an inalienable, natural right?
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
It doesn't take good financial and math skills to manage benefits, many people do a pizz poor job of it, but don't need to ask for assistance with it. Those who ask are unable to handle it at all - and that speaks to some degree [even if temporary] of mental impairment.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
So I guess that means YES, then. Got it. People who are bad at math, and cannot eloquently deal with the complexities and confusions of the benefits provided by the highly complex and confusing VA, are mentally impaired of they need help in dealing with those complexities and confusions. Next up, people who are confused by the Tax Code.
 
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Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
It doesn't take good financial and math skills to manage benefits, many people do a pizz poor job of it, but don't need to ask for assistance with it. Those who ask are unable to handle it at all - and that speaks to some degree [even if temporary] of mental impairment.
You - and probably many others - obviously have no idea what it's like to deal with the VA. My dad died from lung cancer 9 years ago in a VA hospital. During the initial process of evaluating his illness it took them almost eight months of filling out forms, trying to get appointments, evaluations, etc; all the while they told him his cough that wouldn't go away was due to allergies (that he'd never had before). Once he finally got admitted, they were able to keep him on painkillers until he died. Apparently the window of opportunity for treatment had passed and the cancer rapidly progressed while he was trying to navigate the bureaucratic process. Even at age 81, his mind was still sharp and being a retired mechanical engineer he was still quite capable of analytical thought and managing his finances. Had he asked for assistance in navigating the bureaucratic nightmare that is the VA process, or expediting the benefits and medical treatments to which he was entitled, he would have been denied the right to own or purchase a firearm under the current Obama administration regulations.

Apparently this is typical of the experiences our veterans experience. Now in addition to this abuse they're being denied a basic constitutional right due to the incompetence of others.

http://allenbwest.com/2015/02/calling-veterans-send-experiences-va-system/
 

Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
So I guess that means YES, then. Got it. People who are bad at math, and cannot eloquently deal with the complexities and confusions of the benefits provided by the highly complex and confusing VA, are mentally impaired of they need help in dealing with those complexities and confusions. Next up, people who are confused by the Tax Code.
And if the Tax Code doesn't get them there's always Obamacare or Social Security.:rolleyes:
 

xiggi

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
It doesn't take good financial and math skills to manage benefits, many people do a pizz poor job of it, but don't need to ask for assistance with it. Those who ask are unable to handle it at all - and that speaks to some degree [even if temporary] of mental impairment.
Sorry cheri but that post might be a sign of mental imoairment, lol. :p
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
You - and probably many others - obviously have no idea what it's like to deal with the VA. My dad died from lung cancer 9 years ago in a VA hospital. During the initial process of evaluating his illness it took them almost eight months of filling out forms, trying to get appointments, evaluations, etc; all the while they told him his cough that wouldn't go away was due to allergies (that he'd never had before). Once he finally got admitted, they were able to keep him on painkillers until he died. Apparently the window of opportunity for treatment had passed and the cancer rapidly progressed while he was trying to navigate the bureaucratic process. Even at age 81, his mind was still sharp and being a retired mechanical engineer he was still quite capable of analytical thought and managing his finances. Had he asked for assistance in navigating the bureaucratic nightmare that is the VA process, or expediting the benefits and medical treatments to which he was entitled, he would have been denied the right to own or purchase a firearm under the current Obama administration regulations.

Apparently this is typical of the experiences our veterans experience. Now in addition to this abuse they're being denied a basic constitutional right due to the incompetence of others.

http://allenbwest.com/2015/02/calling-veterans-send-experiences-va-system/


You are almost correct, bc I do have some idea of what it's like to deal with a government agency, especially one that is giving one benefits, [for which one should be grateful, even though one actually earned them]. In my case, it was unemployment. My first time applying, I was disqualified for stating a preference for working evenings/nights, because I was a single parent who wanted to spend some time with my child. I did not state that I would work only those shifts, but the form asked if there were any preferences, so I was truthful. [Cleveland State's Marshall College of Law students took the case and got the decision reversed, thankfully.]
Anecdotal things like these are one reason it boggles my mid that people think those on food stamps or welfare have it easy: just ask, and the checks start coming in, every month.:rolleyes:
But the point I made originally remains: having difficulty obtaining benefits wasn't the criteria specified for being classified "mentally defective" [what a horrible description!], now was it? The specific criteria required difficulty in managing benefits or finances [ie: money] which is an entirely different matter.
If one asks for help obtaining government benefits, there's no imputation of mental deficiency: it's tricksy. But if one asks for help managing their benefits [aka money], that's cause to question their mental acuity, absolutely.
You just need to remember that benefits = money, and it is understandable.
 

Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
... But if one asks for help managing their benefits [aka money], that's cause to question their mental acuity, absolutely.
You just need to remember that benefits = money, and it is understandable.
What you obviously don't understand is that when dealing with the VA - and certain other govt agencies - is that benefits DO NOT = MONEY.:facepalm: In the case of the VA, benefits = HEALTH CARE and various other services, not the least of which are doctor appointments and various other services related to medical conditions that are related to combat related illnesses or injuries and could be life threatening.

I'll bet if you would have a different viewpoint if you were sent notice from the US Govt that you were no longer deemed competent to vote because you had enlisted legal assistance getting your unemployment benefits, or hired an accountant to prepare your taxes.
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
What you obviously don't understand is that when dealing with the VA - and certain other govt agencies - is that benefits DO NOT = MONEY.:facepalm: In the case of the VA, benefits = HEALTH CARE and various other services, not the least of which are doctor appointments and various other services related to medical conditions that are related to combat related illnesses or injuries and could be life threatening.

I'll bet if you would have a different viewpoint if you were sent notice from the US Govt that you were no longer deemed competent to vote because you had enlisted legal assistance getting your unemployment benefits, or hired an accountant to prepare your taxes.

Your requote left out the pertinent part: if one seeks assistance in obtaining benefits [be they dr appts or a reduction in gas bills], it isn't a sign of mental deficiency.
Managing the help received is where the line is drawn - and I fail to see how a mentally competent person could need more help with that than the usual: asking family & friends "WTH does this mean, exactly?!"
 

skyraider

Veteran Expediter
US Navy
I will be giving exams on our income tax structure/code which at last glace was at least 6 feet tall in books. If anyone needs a few days to study this, its ok. If you cannot manage this, your fuel surcharge will be terminated......
 

skyraider

Veteran Expediter
US Navy
In another jaw-dropping gun grab from the Obama administration, it appears that any veteran needing assistance managing his finances or VA benefits can be deemed "mentally unfit" and placed on the NICS ban list prohibiting them from purchasing firearms.

Considering the complexity and confusion involved when dealing with almost ANY govt agency - but especially the incompetence of the VA over the past decades - this action could effectively prohibit firearms ownership for an extremely high percentage of our nation's veterans. It's no wonder why the Obama administration is ofter described as "tyrannical" and compared to Hitler's Nazi party.:wtf:

For those veterans and concerned citizens among us who are inclined to write, call or email their elected representatives on occasion, now would be a good time to do so.


Let them start with Congress first to see if they understand it....
 
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