Pro-Heat/Carrier NEW Refridegerant

[EASYTRADER]

I have a carrier APU, which is basically the same as a ProHEAT, and it has been nothing but a nightmare for me. Having said that I have learned a few tips, from NON-Carrier dealers as to why they are crappy, and what can be done to make them work better.

Tip 1, From Applied Industrial Technologies - "This thing has the wrong belt on it!!!"

We all have had problems with belts breaking on the generator drive, so the last time it happened rather than go to a carrier dealer, I tooled around on the internet and found this company, which has offices throughout the country. I sang the blues to the guy behind the counter so he came out and took a look at my APU setup, and immediately told me my belt was wrong for the application outside of its torque range or something like that.

he suggested using a 5VX470, or a GoodYear BX44 with notches. He had the Goodyear belt in stock so I bought a couple of those, he highly recommended the 5VX belt but he didnt have any in stock.

Tip 2, This came from the same place, they also sell bearings.

Proheats and Carriers have a tendency to BLOW the Generator bearings. Carrier told me this was caused by having the belts to tight. Applied Ind. told me this problem is almost always caused by improper pulley alignment, he showed me some pictures of bearing failures and there causes and sure enough I found a picture that looked like my failed bearing set.
They usually stock the bearings so when your generator blows it bearings again save 1700 bucks and buy new ones from them.

He suggested using a bubble level as a straight edge to line up the two pulleys, the straighter they are the longer your belts will last, the apu will run quieter,, and the generator bearings will last longer.

Tip 3, Gathered from lots of internet reading and a little gamble.
R-22 is not appropriate for use in a vehicle. R-22 has a small molecule and needs to compress at a fairly high pressure, It cools great, but in an environment full of vibration it will leak out and every 6 mos you will need to take it in to top it off. Its effectiveness also drops off quite a bit when outside temps rise above 90 degrees. A month ago, I blead all the r-22 out of my system and replaced it with ES-22. The new refrigerant doesn't require a license to install, requires 30% less head pressure to compress, and doesn't lose its ability to condense above 90%, in my experience it actually blows colder in high outside temps than lower ones. If you install it, your suction pressure should be 5lbs less than the ambient temp measured at the condenser but not higher than 90. So if its 70 degrees outside, your suction pressure should be 65, if its 110 outside your suction press should be 90.

I noticed a couple of things immediately upon replacing the refrigerate,
I read a 30 degree temp drop from intake to exhaust, with r-22 it was always less than 20.
The generator quieted down, I suspect this is from the AC pulling less electricity than it did before, because of the lower head pressure.

Also should it leak out again, I can top it off myself without a license.

Tip 4, Lucas Oil Treatment - this seems to quiet the clanking that comes from the kubota engine, my next experiment will be to adjust the idle down.

 

[ATeam]

These are good tips for current owners of certain generators. But if you are in the market for a new one, save yourself these troubles and buy an Onan and use a roof unit to heat and cool the sleeper.

Our Onan has provided over 4,000 hours of trouble-free service, except for a fuel pump replacement early on. The pump was cheerfully replaced under warranty by an Onan dealer at no cost to us.

It runs quiet with out modification or additives; so much so that when the generator is running, people can stand ourside the truck, right next to the generator, and converse without raising their voices.

 

[spudhead911]

I have a carrier APU, which is basically the same as a ProHEAT, and it has been nothing but a nightmare for me. Having said that I have learned a few tips, from NON-Carrier dealers as to why they are crappy, and what can be done to make them work better.

Tip 1, From Applied Industrial Technologies - "This thing has the wrong belt on it!!!"

We all have had problems with belts breaking on the generator drive, so the last time it happened rather than go to a carrier dealer, I tooled around on the internet and found this company, which has offices throughout the country. I sang the blues to the guy behind the counter so he came out and took a look at my APU setup, and immediately told me my belt was wrong for the application outside of its torque range or something like that.

he suggested using a 5VX470, or a GoodYear BX44 with notches. He had the Goodyear belt in stock so I bought a couple of those, he highly recommended the 5VX belt but he didnt have any in stock.

Tip 2, This came from the same place, they also sell bearings.

Proheats and Carriers have a tendency to BLOW the Generator bearings. Carrier told me this was caused by having the belts to tight. Applied Ind. told me this problem is almost always caused by improper pulley alignment, he showed me some pictures of bearing failures and there causes and sure enough I found a picture that looked like my failed bearing set.
They usually stock the bearings so when your generator blows it bearings again save 1700 bucks and buy new ones from them.

He suggested using a bubble level as a straight edge to line up the two pulleys, the straighter they are the longer your belts will last, the apu will run quieter,, and the generator bearings will last longer.

Tip 3, Gathered from lots of internet reading and a little gamble.
R-22 is not appropriate for use in a vehicle. R-22 has a small molecule and needs to compress at a fairly high pressure, It cools great, but in an environment full of vibration it will leak out and every 6 mos you will need to take it in to top it off. Its effectiveness also drops off quite a bit when outside temps rise above 90 degrees. A month ago, I blead all the r-22 out of my system and replaced it with ES-22. The new refrigerant doesn't require a license to install, requires 30% less head pressure to compress, and doesn't lose its ability to condense above 90%, in my experience it actually blows colder in high outside temps than lower ones. If you install it, your suction pressure should be 5lbs less than the ambient temp measured at the condenser but not higher than 90. So if its 70 degrees outside, your suction pressure should be 65, if its 110 outside your suction press should be 90.

I noticed a couple of things immediately upon replacing the refrigerate,
I read a 30 degree temp drop from intake to exhaust, with r-22 it was always less than 20.
The generator quieted down, I suspect this is from the AC pulling less electricity than it did before, because of the lower head pressure.

Also should it leak out again, I can top it off myself without a license.

Tip 4, Lucas Oil Treatment - this seems to quiet the clanking that comes from the kubota engine, my next experiment will be to adjust the idle down.

How do you change R22 to the ES-22 what tools and gauges do you need/ my Comfort Pro is still under warranty, have had some issues with a/c. seems the R-22 leaks out and no one can find a leak. you can PM me if you want have also had to tighten the generator belt twice, had carrier do it.

 

[greg334]

How do you change R22 to the ES-22 what tools and gauges do you need/ my Comfort Pro is still under warranty, have had some issues with a/c. seems the R-22 leaks out and no one can find a leak. you can PM me if you want have also had to tighten the generator belt twice, had carrier do it.

If you have a leak in the system, don't waste your money until it is fixed. Also it would be like taking down the system and recharging it. I don't know if the oil is compatible but what I read there should be no problem.

I mentioned some time ago that pulley alignment is critical and some of these units are, well can be improved on.

 

[EASYTRADER]

Theres the link to where I bought the stuff. ES-22a Enviro-Safe: HomeRefrigerants.com

If you get the home recharge kit, four small cans, your AC in the APU will take two cans and then you will have 2 spares. They also sell the right gauge. I see they changed their webpage since I bought mine, they now say 85lbs on the low side above 100 degrees.

As for your leak, you have to insist that they charge your system up to pressure, and then use a leak probe on it or they won,t do it. If your are under warranty, insist they do a leak probe, and watch them do it. I went through the same crap, they won't check for leaks unless you make them. It could be anywhere, Mine had a cracked evaperator. So when they fixed the leak, I blead out the r-22, put in a can of Leak Seal, and 2 cans of ES-22 and so far so good.

 

[EASYTRADER]

Next time you are in for warranty service, watch what the guy does, so you can see where he
hooks the guages up. The low pressure side is the one that doens't burn your fingers when you touch it after the ac has been running a while - learned that the hard way.

 

[arkjarhead]

Phil,
When you got your Onan did you look at other apus before making the purchase? The only reason I ask is I thought some might be interested in the price difference, +/- others. Just curious.

 

[ATeam]

We did not look at other APUs before purchasing an Onan. When we chose ARI as our sleeper manufacturer, the Onan choice was made by default. ARI uses Onan generators to power their sleepers. We were shopping for a sleeper, not a generator. The ARI package included Onan so we went with it.

It never occured to us to consider a different generator brand. In fleet owner trucks we had gained experience with RigMaster and Proheat generators. All of them were loud, unreliable, and unable to do the job in extreme weather conditions. And that was in small factory sleepers (70 - 84 inches, depending on the truck). With a 134-inch sleeper to heat and cool, and ARI's long track record of satisfied customers, many with sleepers larger than 134 inches, the Onan choice was a no-brainer.

Next time around, we won't care how much an Onan generator costs compared to others. When buying a generator, saving money is not the goal. Comfort and reliability are. Onan delivers both.

 

[infoseek]

I have a carrier APU, which is basically the same as a ProHEAT, and it has been nothing but a nightmare for me. Having said that I have learned a few tips, from NON-Carrier dealers as to why they are crappy, and what can be done to make them work better.

Tip 1, From Applied Industrial Technologies - "This thing has the wrong belt on it!!!"

We all have had problems with belts breaking on the generator drive, so the last time it happened rather than go to a carrier dealer, I tooled around on the internet and found this company, which has offices throughout the country. I sang the blues to the guy behind the counter so he came out and took a look at my APU setup, and immediately told me my belt was wrong for the application outside of its torque range or something like that.

he suggested using a 5VX470, or a GoodYear BX44 with notches. He had the Goodyear belt in stock so I bought a couple of those, he highly recommended the 5VX belt but he didnt have any in stock.

Tip 2, This came from the same place, they also sell bearings.

Proheats and Carriers have a tendency to BLOW the Generator bearings. Carrier told me this was caused by having the belts to tight. Applied Ind. told me this problem is almost always caused by improper pulley alignment, he showed me some pictures of bearing failures and there causes and sure enough I found a picture that looked like my failed bearing set.
They usually stock the bearings so when your generator blows it bearings again save 1700 bucks and buy new ones from them.

He suggested using a bubble level as a straight edge to line up the two pulleys, the straighter they are the longer your belts will last, the apu will run quieter,, and the generator bearings will last longer.

Tip 3, Gathered from lots of internet reading and a little gamble.
R-22 is not appropriate for use in a vehicle. R-22 has a small molecule and needs to compress at a fairly high pressure, It cools great, but in an environment full of vibration it will leak out and every 6 mos you will need to take it in to top it off. Its effectiveness also drops off quite a bit when outside temps rise above 90 degrees. A month ago, I blead all the r-22 out of my system and replaced it with ES-22. The new refrigerant doesn't require a license to install, requires 30% less head pressure to compress, and doesn't lose its ability to condense above 90%, in my experience it actually blows colder in high outside temps than lower ones. If you install it, your suction pressure should be 5lbs less than the ambient temp measured at the condenser but not higher than 90. So if its 70 degrees outside, your suction pressure should be 65, if its 110 outside your suction press should be 90.

I noticed a couple of things immediately upon replacing the refrigerate,
I read a 30 degree temp drop from intake to exhaust, with r-22 it was always less than 20.
The generator quieted down, I suspect this is from the AC pulling less electricity than it did before, because of the lower head pressure.

Also should it leak out again, I can top it off myself without a license.

Tip 4, Lucas Oil Treatment - this seems to quiet the clanking that comes from the kubota engine, my next experiment will be to adjust the idle down.

Just wanted to put some information out there with regard to refrigerants. First off familiarize yourself with EPA’s website on refrigerants and how to handle them. While it may not require an EPA certificate to purchase some of these chemical products, EPA requires a certification (section 608 and 609) to properly handle refrigerants in these environments. Another thing to note is that these substitutes while sounding like a great solution are mostly hydrocarbons and thus illegal to use as replacement refrigerants in most applications per EPA. EPA touches on the possible event that a hydrocarbon leaking into an enclosed compartment can cause explosions due to the flammability of the product. I would suggest that anyone considering making retrofits to A/C or refrigeration systems should consider the pro’s and con’s. Are these retrofit refrigerants approved by the EPA? Will these refrigerants void the manufactures warranty? Am I qualified by law to handle refrigerants? Who has certified these refrigerants? Please be aware of the legalities and dangers before moving forward. You can research this information on the EPA’s website. Hope this helps and here is a link to this information.

Common Sense in Protecting the Environment Without Endangering Safety - A Warning to Consumers About Hydrocarbon Refrigerants | Ozone Depletion - Regulatory Programs | U.S. EPA

 

[EASYTRADER]

I don't give a rats a** what the EPA, sais. For the first time in 2 years I am comfortable in summer temps in my truck.

Why are you people so eager to have the gov. run every aspect of your lives!!!

think about it do you seriously think fourteen ounces of refridgerant is more dangerous than the hundred fifty gallons of diesel fuel in my tanks or the five gallons of sulferic acid in the batteries bank.

PS the reason they made r12 illegal was because its patent had run out.

 

[greg334]

PS the reason they made r12 illegal was because its patent had run out.

Easy,
NO that is not the reason, the patent ran out a long time ago.

The reason that r12 was not made illegal but rather ceased production over the 'proof' that the CFC's like r12 were depleting the Ozone layer over the south pole. It was because of the Montreal Protocol, which like the Kyoto agreement, that the time line was put into effect and had a built in system to 'help' countries to get rid of their r12 use with much of the money coming from us.

Oh and the generator burning out bearing may be because the generators are using cheap grease. A number of generators I seen on a few APUs were from a Chinese source and these units need to be disassembled, the bearing taken apart, cleaned and greased with the proper grease.

 

[Broompilot]

Hope it was not a Mistake: Just installed one on this truck. On my KW (new) the Pro-Heat was trouble after problem after problem. Than it was repaired (rewired) and was flawless for over a year. Your RIGHT Goodyear Gator Belts, and ALWAYS use the Kabota filters, Napas leak oil seal will not sit tight.

After swearing I would never buy another I found the dependability from my Second truck to be Great and others I kept asking who bought after I did not have the problems I was stuck with.

So far so good, I will in 6 months let you know what I am expirencing. I only need AC and if I could have put a roof top on I like A Teams set up probably would have. I have the Bunk Heater so I will not need to run this except for Charging Batteries in the Winter.

New Unit starts like a Dream, no longer does one need to press Start button it does it Auto, if it fails it retries again. Upon Delivery it was very hard to start fuel was not getting to unit since than NO FURTHER PROBLEMS, has started on first try everytime (2 months old). I wanted either the battery AC or the Rigmaster but that dealer after 7 (SEVEN) calls failed to ever give me a price so I had to do something. Same dealer who installed the Bunk Heater. Since my check cleared and I have had nothing but compliments about the service I recieved I do not understand the lack of a Professional Call back? Hint Hint ya reading in Romulis?

I love the idea of this set up, the Bunk heater uses very little fuel in the Winter, and the APU probably 1/4 to 1/3 to cool in the summer. Much less than Ideling the truck.

Now the real question? How much would one guestimate I can save by these two systems in a year (260 days out a year).

 

[layoutshooter]

My Pro-heat has been working fairly well since I had it fixed the last time. I had the work done at Scott's comercial truck service in Toledo, OH. They are about a mile from the TA on Alexis RD. Real good on reefers and APU's. The Pro-Heat is still WAY too noisy, maybe a after market muffler of some kind. It does a fair job of cooling in very hot temps, but not great. We made some window shades of of the silver "bubble" type insulation that is used for hot water tanks etc. That has helped a lot. Even with the better shades the Pro-Heat has to work VERY hard all the time to keep up with heat above 90. Seems to handle humidty pretty well. I like the idea of the bunk heater, looking into that one. Layoutshooter

 

[Dmurphy]

I've had a Proheat for 5 years now, and yes it's had a few problems, but I found out how to buy parts/filters a little bit cheaper. The alternator and starter can be bought thru most auto starter/alternator rebuilders new for $139 to $180, as opposed to Carriers $600 for the alt and $550 for the starter. I've rebuilt the generator myself. What goes out are the 2 bearings which I bought for $17 apiece. I had to buy a puller at $54, but that's cheaper that the $1200 for a new generator. Unless the windings somehow mess up, the bearings are the only part that needs occasional replacing. Even if the windings screw up, you can still get the generator totally rebuilt for around $300. Again, much cheaper than the $1200 for a new one.

I've had no problem buying all the filters at just about any NAPA parts store in the country. Actually I've had pretty good luck buying filters at O'reilly' and Auto Zone also, but they're more hit and miss.

One Carrier dealer told me the cause of the R-22 leakage is that the original hoses ( freon lines ) had a problem with seepage. I'm replacing my lines this week.

Hope this helps someone.

Redeye

 

[sweetbillebob]

I have a carrier APU, which is basically the same as a ProHEAT, and it has been nothing but a nightmare for me. Having said that I have learned a few tips, from NON-Carrier dealers as to why they are crappy, and what can be done to make them work better.

Tip 1, From Applied Industrial Technologies - "This thing has the wrong belt on it!!!"

We all have had problems with belts breaking on the generator drive, so the last time it happened rather than go to a carrier dealer, I tooled around on the internet and found this company, which has offices throughout the country. I sang the blues to the guy behind the counter so he came out and took a look at my APU setup, and immediately told me my belt was wrong for the application outside of its torque range or something like that.

he suggested using a 5VX470, or a GoodYear BX44 with notches. He had the Goodyear belt in stock so I bought a couple of those, he highly recommended the 5VX belt but he didnt have any in stock.

Tip 2, This came from the same place, they also sell bearings.

Proheats and Carriers have a tendency to BLOW the Generator bearings. Carrier told me this was caused by having the belts to tight. Applied Ind. told me this problem is almost always caused by improper pulley alignment, he showed me some pictures of bearing failures and there causes and sure enough I found a picture that looked like my failed bearing set.
They usually stock the bearings so when your generator blows it bearings again save 1700 bucks and buy new ones from them.

He suggested using a bubble level as a straight edge to line up the two pulleys, the straighter they are the longer your belts will last, the apu will run quieter,, and the generator bearings will last longer.

Tip 3, Gathered from lots of internet reading and a little gamble.
R-22 is not appropriate for use in a vehicle. R-22 has a small molecule and needs to compress at a fairly high pressure, It cools great, but in an environment full of vibration it will leak out and every 6 mos you will need to take it in to top it off. Its effectiveness also drops off quite a bit when outside temps rise above 90 degrees. A month ago, I blead all the r-22 out of my system and replaced it with ES-22. The new refrigerant doesn't require a license to install, requires 30% less head pressure to compress, and doesn't lose its ability to condense above 90%, in my experience it actually blows colder in high outside temps than lower ones. If you install it, your suction pressure should be 5lbs less than the ambient temp measured at the condenser but not higher than 90. So if its 70 degrees outside, your suction pressure should be 65, if its 110 outside your suction press should be 90.

I noticed a couple of things immediately upon replacing the refrigerate,
I read a 30 degree temp drop from intake to exhaust, with r-22 it was always less than 20.
The generator quieted down, I suspect this is from the AC pulling less electricity than it did before, because of the lower head pressure.

Also should it leak out again, I can top it off myself without a license.

Tip 4, Lucas Oil Treatment - this seems to quiet the clanking that comes from the kubota engine, my next experiment will be to adjust the idle down.

Pay attention to your voltage when playing around with the idle. The idle speed determines the voltage output. The specified range is 117VAC to 127VAC. The 117VAC will be with the A/C off, the 127VAC will be with A/C on high. The A/C needs the voltage specified to operate properly.

I liked all your other tips, thanks for the info.

One other tip. The generator mounting bracket is substandard. The block that mounts to the frame is steel. The ears on the generator are aluminum. The mounting bolt is semi-hardened. And there is too much clearance between the mounting block and the ears on the generator. The end result is that the mounting holes thru the ears on the generator round out then the bolt breaks. The belt tension adjustment bolt usually breaks along with it. And of course, Carrier wants to sell you a new generator. Many shops have a pile of generators in the corner of the shop with rounded out mounting holes.

I took my generator and frame mounting bracket to my local machine shop. Had both the ears on the generator and the mounting block sleeved. Had them make some small shims that were welded to the block to make the fit tighter between the block and the ears. And of course, got a hardened mounting bolt.

 

[EASYTRADER]

Turning the IDLE DOWN was not such a good idea after all as it did lower the voltage from the generator. So I cranked the idle back up.

I figured that is is such a bad design maybe they got the iddle wrong too but I guess thats the one thing they got right.

I also added an Oil Bypass filter to the engine. I Put an AMSOIL bypass on it, AMSOIL quieted the engine and it added a quart capacity to the engine which I suppose is good. Installing the bypass was and adventure as I had to rethread some fittings but it has worked.