Preparing to invest in a new truck & team. Advice
- Thread starter pitchman
- Start date
RE: Preparing to invest... but it isn't an investm
FedEx Custom Critical fuel Surcharge is currently at 7.2% except on the west Coast it's 9.0% Some carrier/customer contracts provide no surcharge.
Anyone else have numbers?
FedEx Custom Critical fuel Surcharge is currently at 7.2% except on the west Coast it's 9.0% Some carrier/customer contracts provide no surcharge.
Anyone else have numbers?
RE: Preparing to invest... but it isn't an investm
Panther varies by the customer and equipment.
Our current average from the first of the year is .18 cents per mile.
As a percentage, it would calculate to 11.5 percent
Of course these numbers are changing as fuel keeps climbing. Last two weeks surcharge have been at .20 or higher.
We haven't had a run without it, except 1 backhaul
It was Idaho to Iowa I believe
If hauling without it, one would hope they had a good milage rate.
Davekc
Forgot to mention; these are SS numbers
Also some loads like special services pay government surcharge which is .06 cents per mile but the rate has an additional .30 cents per mile added to it. That is an additional .36 cents per mile. This will change your fuel surcharge calculation depending on your calculation methods.
Panther varies by the customer and equipment.
Our current average from the first of the year is .18 cents per mile.
As a percentage, it would calculate to 11.5 percent
Of course these numbers are changing as fuel keeps climbing. Last two weeks surcharge have been at .20 or higher.
We haven't had a run without it, except 1 backhaul
It was Idaho to Iowa I believe
If hauling without it, one would hope they had a good milage rate.
Davekc
Forgot to mention; these are SS numbers
Also some loads like special services pay government surcharge which is .06 cents per mile but the rate has an additional .30 cents per mile added to it. That is an additional .36 cents per mile. This will change your fuel surcharge calculation depending on your calculation methods.
RE: Preparing to invest... but it isn't an investm
We're getting off topic here so I'll be brief.
I should have clarified what 7.2% means. The customer pays 7.2% on top of their shipping costs; however, we get all of the surcharge. This equates to the current rate of about 15 cents per mile for a full tariff van load. A large straight truck would get about 20-22 cents for a non-specialized load. A C or D truck driver might have a better answer on their pay.
We're getting off topic here so I'll be brief.
I should have clarified what 7.2% means. The customer pays 7.2% on top of their shipping costs; however, we get all of the surcharge. This equates to the current rate of about 15 cents per mile for a full tariff van load. A large straight truck would get about 20-22 cents for a non-specialized load. A C or D truck driver might have a better answer on their pay.
RE: Preparing to invest... but it isn't an investm
Terry wrote;
large straight truck would get about 20-22 cents for a non-specialized load. A C or D truck driver
If this is paid on ALL loads, then they would now be comparable at 20-22 cents for a non-specialized load.
Davekc
Terry wrote;
large straight truck would get about 20-22 cents for a non-specialized load. A C or D truck driver
If this is paid on ALL loads, then they would now be comparable at 20-22 cents for a non-specialized load.
Davekc
RE: Preparing to invest... but it isn't an investm
Oh goodie, something I know something about. Panther and fuel surcharges. I just sat through day one of training. They say 84% of their customers pay a surcharge, it veries from .04 a mile to one customer that pays .32 a mile (that is a hard one to believe) deadhead pay is .25 for a van .50 for straight trucks and the first 100 miles are unpaid. Tractor trailers are .35 for ALL unloaded miles.
back to the original post.
Save your money. Doing business with family is a nightmare you don't want to start. Keeps things better at family parties. The most I would think about doing is co-signing on a loan. With fuel on the way up drivers are starting to look at other professions. Wait a bit, if it gets as high as they claim there will be more used trucks than buyers.
Oh goodie, something I know something about. Panther and fuel surcharges. I just sat through day one of training. They say 84% of their customers pay a surcharge, it veries from .04 a mile to one customer that pays .32 a mile (that is a hard one to believe) deadhead pay is .25 for a van .50 for straight trucks and the first 100 miles are unpaid. Tractor trailers are .35 for ALL unloaded miles.
back to the original post.
Save your money. Doing business with family is a nightmare you don't want to start. Keeps things better at family parties. The most I would think about doing is co-signing on a loan. With fuel on the way up drivers are starting to look at other professions. Wait a bit, if it gets as high as they claim there will be more used trucks than buyers.
RE: Preparing to invest... but it isn't an investm
You might as well sign over the deed if you cosign a loan. You are totally on the hook if they default. If you can afford to give the family member a gift of whatever the amount is and not care that you never get a penny back then go ahead but otherwise don't cosign or do anything else because it may turn into a gift before you know it. My .02 and ymmv.
Leo
truck 4958
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.
You might as well sign over the deed if you cosign a loan. You are totally on the hook if they default. If you can afford to give the family member a gift of whatever the amount is and not care that you never get a penny back then go ahead but otherwise don't cosign or do anything else because it may turn into a gift before you know it. My .02 and ymmv.
Leo
truck 4958
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.
RE: Preparing to invest... but it isn't an investm
one customer that pays .32 a mile (that is a hard one to believe)
Your right, I haven't seen that one yet either. I haven't seen the .04 cent one either. Your numbers on deadhead are right on. You also recieve empty moves with that rate depending on your vehicle size and current fuel cost. That number is calculated from where you are located to the next layover location. (have to be within 25 miles when destination is reached) At least it is for all the miles traveled when repositioned by the computer.
Davekc
owner
20 years
one customer that pays .32 a mile (that is a hard one to believe)
Your right, I haven't seen that one yet either. I haven't seen the .04 cent one either. Your numbers on deadhead are right on. You also recieve empty moves with that rate depending on your vehicle size and current fuel cost. That number is calculated from where you are located to the next layover location. (have to be within 25 miles when destination is reached) At least it is for all the miles traveled when repositioned by the computer.
Davekc
owner
20 years
RE: Preparing to invest... but it isn't an investm
>Pitchman:
> I have read some really foolish stuff on this site. I
>must admit this one really takes the cake. One dash of
>mortgaged home, add two pinches of relatives, stir with a
>thousand miles of geography, bake for about three months
>until you all cry (if not before) Then Type back to us and
>let us know what you have learned.
I appreciate the sarcasm, (grin) I know you were just showing your disapproval/concern for the situation (smile) believe me, I've had my doubts too. However, I have a wife that is in the dental field and we both are keeping our jobs and are making an adequate income. The house payment has not increased by taking my equity out and the thought of having no truck payment (lower overhead) just seems appealing. As for my drivers being family, if it doesn't go well, I fire them and find another team... nothing personal, just business... I made that very clear to them before I decided to partner with them in this deal.
If after a year or so, I haven't made an adequate return on the investment, I can probably sell the truck and recoup at least 50% of my initial investment... (I hope...)
>Pitchman:
> I have read some really foolish stuff on this site. I
>must admit this one really takes the cake. One dash of
>mortgaged home, add two pinches of relatives, stir with a
>thousand miles of geography, bake for about three months
>until you all cry (if not before) Then Type back to us and
>let us know what you have learned.
I appreciate the sarcasm, (grin) I know you were just showing your disapproval/concern for the situation (smile) believe me, I've had my doubts too. However, I have a wife that is in the dental field and we both are keeping our jobs and are making an adequate income. The house payment has not increased by taking my equity out and the thought of having no truck payment (lower overhead) just seems appealing. As for my drivers being family, if it doesn't go well, I fire them and find another team... nothing personal, just business... I made that very clear to them before I decided to partner with them in this deal.
If after a year or so, I haven't made an adequate return on the investment, I can probably sell the truck and recoup at least 50% of my initial investment... (I hope...)
RE: Preparing to invest... but it isn't an investm
appreciate the sarcasm, (grin) I know you were just showing your disapproval/concern for the situation (smile) believe me, I've had my doubts too. However, I have a wife that is in the dental field and we both are keeping our jobs and are making an adequate income. The house payment has not increased by taking my equity out and the thought of having no truck payment (lower overhead) just seems appealing. As for my drivers being family, if it doesn't go well, I fire them and find another team... nothing personal, just business... I made that very clear to them before I decided to partner with them in this deal.
If after a year or so, I haven't made an adequate return on the investment, I can probably sell the truck and recoup at least 50% of my initial investment... (I hope...)
Not sure where to go with this? "Some will jump off a cliff even when advised not to"
You clearly have minumal cash reserves or you wouldn't have taken a second mortgage. This is still borrowed money that you must pay regardless of the monthly note. You are just making your payments longer. Bad idea! There are many more safe bets with regards to investing. However, if it is just the challenge you are seeking, even the odds a little and take the money to Vegas. Much better odds of a return. Depending on what you pay for your truck, you may not recoup 50% of your investment. Truck cost, startup and operating capital have to be figured in. If truck is sold early, you now have capital gains issues ect regardless whether you paid cash or not.
If you do jump, you are going to need a better parachute than you are showing.
Davekc
appreciate the sarcasm, (grin) I know you were just showing your disapproval/concern for the situation (smile) believe me, I've had my doubts too. However, I have a wife that is in the dental field and we both are keeping our jobs and are making an adequate income. The house payment has not increased by taking my equity out and the thought of having no truck payment (lower overhead) just seems appealing. As for my drivers being family, if it doesn't go well, I fire them and find another team... nothing personal, just business... I made that very clear to them before I decided to partner with them in this deal.
If after a year or so, I haven't made an adequate return on the investment, I can probably sell the truck and recoup at least 50% of my initial investment... (I hope...)
Not sure where to go with this? "Some will jump off a cliff even when advised not to"
You clearly have minumal cash reserves or you wouldn't have taken a second mortgage. This is still borrowed money that you must pay regardless of the monthly note. You are just making your payments longer. Bad idea! There are many more safe bets with regards to investing. However, if it is just the challenge you are seeking, even the odds a little and take the money to Vegas. Much better odds of a return. Depending on what you pay for your truck, you may not recoup 50% of your investment. Truck cost, startup and operating capital have to be figured in. If truck is sold early, you now have capital gains issues ect regardless whether you paid cash or not.
If you do jump, you are going to need a better parachute than you are showing.
Davekc
RE: Preparing to invest... but it isn't an investm
Pitchman:
You asked for advice on which company would be best for your planned expedition into expediting and in so doing you exposed your financial and operating plan with our community. You were strongly advised by a half-dozen experienced owner/operators to shy away from two most important elements of your plan; re-financing an appreciating house to finance a depreciating truck and, hiring relatives to drive that truck.
The members attempting to discourage your plans, myself included, are relying on dozens of collective years of observations of persons with similar business tactics losing it all. We believe the following scenario has occurred all too often and will likely repeat, hopefully not with you.
At first, relative drivers will be excited and thankfull for the opportunity provided and will be eager to please. After they get used to the routine they will resent the owner for taking such a large bite of the pie and the eagerness will wane. They will be more selective on run acceptance and settle for enough run money to satisfy their needs without regard for the owners mounting bills. Relatives expect relatives to cut them some slack and family squabbles will develop. The owner is reluctant to 'fire' family members and get further behind in the bills. The relatives quit, the truck is repossessed and the homeowners reward is either foreclosure on the house or extended payments reflecting bad business decisions.
To answer your original question, Any of the major companys you mentioned will be suitable for your plans. There are many of us leased to each of these carriers and enjoying success as we see it.
You seem to have made up your mind so I'm sure the others join me in hopeing you are one of the fortunate few having success with your plan.
Pitchman:
You asked for advice on which company would be best for your planned expedition into expediting and in so doing you exposed your financial and operating plan with our community. You were strongly advised by a half-dozen experienced owner/operators to shy away from two most important elements of your plan; re-financing an appreciating house to finance a depreciating truck and, hiring relatives to drive that truck.
The members attempting to discourage your plans, myself included, are relying on dozens of collective years of observations of persons with similar business tactics losing it all. We believe the following scenario has occurred all too often and will likely repeat, hopefully not with you.
At first, relative drivers will be excited and thankfull for the opportunity provided and will be eager to please. After they get used to the routine they will resent the owner for taking such a large bite of the pie and the eagerness will wane. They will be more selective on run acceptance and settle for enough run money to satisfy their needs without regard for the owners mounting bills. Relatives expect relatives to cut them some slack and family squabbles will develop. The owner is reluctant to 'fire' family members and get further behind in the bills. The relatives quit, the truck is repossessed and the homeowners reward is either foreclosure on the house or extended payments reflecting bad business decisions.
To answer your original question, Any of the major companys you mentioned will be suitable for your plans. There are many of us leased to each of these carriers and enjoying success as we see it.
You seem to have made up your mind so I'm sure the others join me in hopeing you are one of the fortunate few having success with your plan.
RE: Preparing to invest... but it isn't an investm
> appreciate the sarcasm, (grin) I know you were just showing
>your disapproval/concern for the situation (smile) believe
>me, I've had my doubts too. However, I have a wife that is
>in the dental field and we both are keeping our jobs and are
>making an adequate income. The house payment has not
>increased by taking my equity out and the thought of having
>no truck payment (lower overhead) just seems appealing. As
>for my drivers being family, if it doesn't go well, I fire
>them and find another team... nothing personal, just
>business... I made that very clear to them before I decided
>to partner with them in this deal.
>
>If after a year or so, I haven't made an adequate return on
>the investment, I can probably sell the truck and recoup at
>least 50% of my initial investment... (I hope...)
>
>
>
>
>Not sure where to go with this? "Some will jump off a cliff
>even when advised not to"
>You clearly have minumal cash reserves or you wouldn't have
>taken a second mortgage. This is still borrowed money that
>you must pay regardless of the monthly note. You are just
>making your payments longer. Bad idea! There are many more
>safe bets with regards to investing. However, if it is just
>the challenge you are seeking, even the odds a little and
>take the money to Vegas. Much better odds of a return.
>Depending on what you pay for your truck, you may not recoup
>50% of your investment. Truck cost, startup and operating
>capital have to be figured in. If truck is sold early, you
>now have capital gains issues ect regardless whether you
>paid cash or not.
>If you do jump, you are going to need a better parachute
>than you are showing.
>Davekc
Dave,
I didn't want to bore you with exact details of my business plan but it may help you better understand a little about me as an individual and my past business experience. I have an MBA, (a worthless piece of paper for the wall) currently I am a business systems analyst for the larget international shipping company in the word and the 3rd largest shipper here in the U.S.
In 1994 I opened my first computer store and grew them into a chain of stores that I eventually sold 4 years later when the industry was reaching its peak.
Am I an eternal optimist? Yes Dave, I am. I truly believe that if you have a vision and the drive to succeed, you can achieve anything. A cash reserve is not my problem, I could just get access to my cash quicker through leveraging the equity in the home. Since the investments in my portfolio are currently increasing at a rate greater then the appreciation of my home, it only makes sense to borrow from a source that will still continue to make money. Sell stocks to use the funds and you have no stocks to make money with. Real estate continues to increase even though I am using some equity.
Is it possible that you are correct and I am insane? Absolutely! (Smile) But whatever the case may be, you were right about one thing, I do love a challenge. I like to think that I've done my homework but information such as what you and the other folks here are providing to me has already proven to be invaluable. It has helped me to modify my plan and caused me to consider alternative ways to structure my company. Knowledge is power and I just don't want to have the focus on how I will fund my truck or if I will have operating capital. Those things are taken care of for now. I appreciate knowing the obstacles and expenses that others have incurred. I want to learn by the mistakes others have made.
Once again, thanks for your view and input, as always, it is appreciated.
> appreciate the sarcasm, (grin) I know you were just showing
>your disapproval/concern for the situation (smile) believe
>me, I've had my doubts too. However, I have a wife that is
>in the dental field and we both are keeping our jobs and are
>making an adequate income. The house payment has not
>increased by taking my equity out and the thought of having
>no truck payment (lower overhead) just seems appealing. As
>for my drivers being family, if it doesn't go well, I fire
>them and find another team... nothing personal, just
>business... I made that very clear to them before I decided
>to partner with them in this deal.
>
>If after a year or so, I haven't made an adequate return on
>the investment, I can probably sell the truck and recoup at
>least 50% of my initial investment... (I hope...)
>
>
>
>
>Not sure where to go with this? "Some will jump off a cliff
>even when advised not to"
>You clearly have minumal cash reserves or you wouldn't have
>taken a second mortgage. This is still borrowed money that
>you must pay regardless of the monthly note. You are just
>making your payments longer. Bad idea! There are many more
>safe bets with regards to investing. However, if it is just
>the challenge you are seeking, even the odds a little and
>take the money to Vegas. Much better odds of a return.
>Depending on what you pay for your truck, you may not recoup
>50% of your investment. Truck cost, startup and operating
>capital have to be figured in. If truck is sold early, you
>now have capital gains issues ect regardless whether you
>paid cash or not.
>If you do jump, you are going to need a better parachute
>than you are showing.
>Davekc
Dave,
I didn't want to bore you with exact details of my business plan but it may help you better understand a little about me as an individual and my past business experience. I have an MBA, (a worthless piece of paper for the wall) currently I am a business systems analyst for the larget international shipping company in the word and the 3rd largest shipper here in the U.S.
In 1994 I opened my first computer store and grew them into a chain of stores that I eventually sold 4 years later when the industry was reaching its peak.
Am I an eternal optimist? Yes Dave, I am. I truly believe that if you have a vision and the drive to succeed, you can achieve anything. A cash reserve is not my problem, I could just get access to my cash quicker through leveraging the equity in the home. Since the investments in my portfolio are currently increasing at a rate greater then the appreciation of my home, it only makes sense to borrow from a source that will still continue to make money. Sell stocks to use the funds and you have no stocks to make money with. Real estate continues to increase even though I am using some equity.
Is it possible that you are correct and I am insane? Absolutely! (Smile) But whatever the case may be, you were right about one thing, I do love a challenge. I like to think that I've done my homework but information such as what you and the other folks here are providing to me has already proven to be invaluable. It has helped me to modify my plan and caused me to consider alternative ways to structure my company. Knowledge is power and I just don't want to have the focus on how I will fund my truck or if I will have operating capital. Those things are taken care of for now. I appreciate knowing the obstacles and expenses that others have incurred. I want to learn by the mistakes others have made.
Once again, thanks for your view and input, as always, it is appreciated.
RE: Preparing to invest... but it isn't an investm
>Pitchman:
>
>You asked for advice on which company would be best for your
>planned expedition into expediting and in so doing you
>exposed your financial and operating plan with our
>community. You were strongly advised by a half-dozen
>experienced owner/operators to shy away from two most
>important elements of your plan; re-financing an
>appreciating house to finance a depreciating truck and,
>hiring relatives to drive that truck.
>
>The members attempting to discourage your plans, myself
>included, are relying on dozens of collective years of
>observations of persons with similar business tactics losing
>it all. We believe the following scenario has occurred all
>too often and will likely repeat, hopefully not with you.
>
>At first, relative drivers will be excited and thankfull for
>the opportunity provided and will be eager to please. After
>they get used to the routine they will resent the owner for
>taking such a large bite of the pie and the eagerness will
>wane. They will be more selective on run acceptance and
>settle for enough run money to satisfy their needs without
>regard for the owners mounting bills. Relatives expect
>relatives to cut them some slack and family squabbles will
>develop. The owner is reluctant to 'fire' family members
>and get further behind in the bills. The relatives quit,
>the truck is repossessed and the homeowners reward is either
>foreclosure on the house or extended payments reflecting bad
>business decisions.
>
>To answer your original question, Any of the major companys
>you mentioned will be suitable for your plans. There are
>many of us leased to each of these carriers and enjoying
>success as we see it.
>
>You seem to have made up your mind so I'm sure the others
>join me in hopeing you are one of the fortunate few having
>success with your plan.
Well, I can definately see your point regarding hiring relatives. I have incorporated the business and made all family members equal share holders in the Corportaion. We will all share equally in the profits the company will generate as we add new trucks and teams. The only catch is that since I am putting up the capital for the venture, my relatives will drive for the first year or two until my investment has been paid back and we add other trucks.
I utilized the same structure with the computer stores I started and when I sold the stores, everyone involved received a nice piece of the pie. They are confident we can again build something successful and I agree. I handle the business and they drive. We all agree that it should be a great arrangement. They are highly motivated and focused on the targets we have established that should lead the the goal we are trying to achieve.
Otherwise, if it doesn't work out... you can hear about it in the news... The story may be something like, "Tragedy struck today as two drivers were tarred, feathered and strapped to their truck as it crashed into a steaming manure pile. The drivers were quoted as saying, man... this really stinks..."
Thanks again... I'll cross my fingers and hope for the best... life is to short not to at least try... <grin>
>Pitchman:
>
>You asked for advice on which company would be best for your
>planned expedition into expediting and in so doing you
>exposed your financial and operating plan with our
>community. You were strongly advised by a half-dozen
>experienced owner/operators to shy away from two most
>important elements of your plan; re-financing an
>appreciating house to finance a depreciating truck and,
>hiring relatives to drive that truck.
>
>The members attempting to discourage your plans, myself
>included, are relying on dozens of collective years of
>observations of persons with similar business tactics losing
>it all. We believe the following scenario has occurred all
>too often and will likely repeat, hopefully not with you.
>
>At first, relative drivers will be excited and thankfull for
>the opportunity provided and will be eager to please. After
>they get used to the routine they will resent the owner for
>taking such a large bite of the pie and the eagerness will
>wane. They will be more selective on run acceptance and
>settle for enough run money to satisfy their needs without
>regard for the owners mounting bills. Relatives expect
>relatives to cut them some slack and family squabbles will
>develop. The owner is reluctant to 'fire' family members
>and get further behind in the bills. The relatives quit,
>the truck is repossessed and the homeowners reward is either
>foreclosure on the house or extended payments reflecting bad
>business decisions.
>
>To answer your original question, Any of the major companys
>you mentioned will be suitable for your plans. There are
>many of us leased to each of these carriers and enjoying
>success as we see it.
>
>You seem to have made up your mind so I'm sure the others
>join me in hopeing you are one of the fortunate few having
>success with your plan.
Well, I can definately see your point regarding hiring relatives. I have incorporated the business and made all family members equal share holders in the Corportaion. We will all share equally in the profits the company will generate as we add new trucks and teams. The only catch is that since I am putting up the capital for the venture, my relatives will drive for the first year or two until my investment has been paid back and we add other trucks.
I utilized the same structure with the computer stores I started and when I sold the stores, everyone involved received a nice piece of the pie. They are confident we can again build something successful and I agree. I handle the business and they drive. We all agree that it should be a great arrangement. They are highly motivated and focused on the targets we have established that should lead the the goal we are trying to achieve.
Otherwise, if it doesn't work out... you can hear about it in the news... The story may be something like, "Tragedy struck today as two drivers were tarred, feathered and strapped to their truck as it crashed into a steaming manure pile. The drivers were quoted as saying, man... this really stinks..."
Thanks again... I'll cross my fingers and hope for the best... life is to short not to at least try... <grin>