Pre-trip inspections

[Falconlady13]

Last Monday night in Chattanooga,TN on Highway 153,a young girl of 18 lost her life.
According to witnesses,she was traveling at a high rate of speed and weaving in and out of traffic and ran directly into the back end of a truck that was sitting at a red light..BUT...the trucker has been charged.News is now saying that he had a brake light that was out.
I have been guilty of just jumping in the truck from time to time without taking that walk around the truck but will try to be more aware now of the price I'll have to pay if I don't.

 

[rollnthunder]

Who's to say that the brake light is now because of the impact.Accidents have a funny way of making other things not work.And more so since she was traveling at a high rate of speed the impact is even harder it could have busted the bulb element or something.

 

[Aviator]

>Who's to say that the brake light is now because of the
>impact.Accidents have a funny way of making other things not
>work.And more so since she was traveling at a high rate of
>speed the impact is even harder it could have busted the
>bulb element or something.


You can tell by the way the filiment is broken in a light bulb if the bulb was on or off in an impact. That is how they can tell in a lot of aviation accidents if certain warning lights were on or off. say for example an aircraft lands with the gear up. The NTSB can tell if the pilot had the "3 green" gear down indication or not.


Aviator

 

[EagerBeaver]

>.News is now saying
>that he had a brake light that was out.
>I have been guilty of just jumping in the truck from time to
>time without taking that walk around the truck but will try
>to be more aware now of the price I'll have to pay if I
>don't.


So all that reflective tape and trailer identifier lights mean nothing if one brake light is out. Maybe the unfortunate girl needed glasses. Sure would be nice if 4wheelers were expected to shoulder some responibilty for their own actions, instead of automatic truck driver fault.

 

[EagerBeaver]

our bulbs are not aviation style so that would be near impossibe to tell except by eye witness if they were on or not, besides electronics probably measure amp draw from the lighting ciruits and record any faults on those planes. Much in the same way alot of your check engine lights come on. Ive spent many years diagnosing electrical problems on vehicles, just merely looking at the broken bulb wont lead you anywhere.

 

[Aviator]

>our bulbs are not aviation style so that would be near
>impossibe to tell except by eye witness if they were on or
>not, besides electronics probably measure amp draw from the
>lighting ciruits and record any faults on those planes. Much
>in the same way alot of your check engine lights come on.
>Ive spent many years diagnosing electrical problems on
>vehicles, just merely looking at the broken bulb wont lead
>you anywhere.


Sorry, but a bulb is a bulb is a bulb, as long as it has a filament. The filament in a bulb that is on is red hot. In an impact it breaks in a way other than how a cold bulb filament breaks. No you and I cannot see the difference, but people who investigate things like this can with the right equipment and training.

Here is one section of a page that come back by googling "Accident investigation and light bulb"

Here is the link if you would like to read the entire paper..

http://www.harristechnical.com/articles/lamp.pdf

The effect of a crash on a filament is quite different when the filament is incandescent, or hot, and when it is off, or cold. This fact gives two bases for judging whether the lamp was on or off at the moment of impact.

First, if the glass envelope breaks, the filament is exposed to the air. This alone will have no effect on a cold filament. A hot filament will quickly blacken and part as the filament oxidizes. Second, impact forces may sharply fracture a cold, brittle filament but stretch out and uncoil an incandescent one which is quite ductile.

A turn signal filament, that has been turned off and is fully exposed to the air, will retain enough heat to oxidize (at least 1250 degrees) when the filament was incandescent for up to one-half second after the current has been removed.

When a hot filament is exposed to the air, the oxide rises from the
filament as white smoke. This white dust is deposited on nearby surfaces leaving signs there was an incandescent filament after the glass broke even if the filament is completely gone. This oxide smoke is typically found on remaining parts of the glass bulb, stems, supports or on an adjacent filament.

This type of filament failure is the same as an old age burn out except that the filament wastes away instantly rather than days. In old age burn out, metallic tungsten vaporized from the filament is deposited on the glass and darkens it, there is no white smoke oxidization.

A hot filament is ductile and will stretch out, uncoil or tangle and may or may not break. Inertia of the filament during the collision makes this happen. The resulting deformation is called "hot shock."

For hot shock to occur, the lamp must have been hot, but not necessarily incandescent, and the glass bulb intact during the collision. Mild deformations, notably irregular spacing of the coils, may be present on lamps that were hot from being incandescent up to four seconds before impact. The larger and stronger a deformed filament, or the greater the degree of deformation, the stronger the indication the lamp was incandescent at impact.

In a lamp with two filaments, if one is incandescent, the hotter of the two will deform more than the other. If both filaments are more or less equally deformed, then both filaments were probably incandescent. In some instances, the heat from one filament will affect the other, cold filament resulting in mild deformation of the second filament and great deformation of the first.

Aviator

That all being said... yes Pre trip inspections are important.

 

[greg334]

Sorry but my comment will sound cruel. It didn't matter if there was a brake light out or he was moving, the fact is that it was really her fault and she sort of learned a hard lesson - too bad.

I can't fault the truck driver because there is something called responsibility, cutting through traffic at a high speed is reckless and the parents are to blame for not teaching her how to drive and being responsible for ones actions.

I guess I see this too many times, kids are not taught any responsiblitybehind the wheel and for the most part they are treated as they have the right to drive. Almost put my truck in a ditch Wed when some kid decided to cut across three lanes of traffic without even taking her ear off the phone, moving her head to check or even taking knee off the wheel - if she hit the wall and got killed, it was her actions that caused it, not mind.

 

[EagerBeaver]

I can appreciate the forensic evidence presented to me on bulb failures, (if they were on or not when they failed.) The question would be WHEN did they fail. In the case of a filament simply being broken away from its post with the dome still unbroken how could you tell if it was from bouncing thru a truck stop parking lot while slowing down or by the impact of a rear end collision while the brakes were applied.
If there is physical damage to the globe and it showed that is was lit at the time that it broke you most likely proved that it was on at the time of collision.(given pretrip inspect. report showed no defects - physical damage) If it shows that it was not lit at the time it was broke then maybe it was inoperative or perhaps the driver is only guilty of not having his foot on the brake, maybe he was holding himself with the clutch just prior to light changing colors. No timestamp is given when they go out. I feel its hard to prove when it failed.

anyways. make sure your lights work.

 

[nightcreacher]

i agree with greg,but in most states.both turn signals,both brake lights,have to be working,and you only realy need 1 tail light,as far as dot is concerned,if you hasve 150 lights on your truck,they all have to work,or get fined.
if your sitting at a stop light,on flat ground,and you put truck in neutral,you may not have your foot on brake,then what happens to brake lights,also,wasnt this accident at night,what about the tail lights,i think a good lawyer will get him off

 

[whitewolf53]

If i remember correctly from my Conway Now orientation
there is no excuse for a rear end collision.If you get in a rear end collision YOU ARE FIRED!!!!!!
It doesn't matter if the truck had a brake light out or not.
The woman failed to stop in the assured clear distance ahead.
And she paid the ultimate price.

Mike
Whitewolf 53

HERE LIZARD LIZARD LIZARD


:9 :9 :9 :9 :9 :9 :9

 

[nightcreacher]

Mike,i had a driver at con-way now,she hit car in rear,but wasnt fired,she also had witness that said car pulled in front of her and stopped,but yes it was to be instant fired

 

[cheri1122]

Whether the truck was showing brake lights or not, wasn't the traffic light red? If she hit the truck hard enough to cause her death, she clearly wasn't going to be able to stop for the traffic light!
Greg, I understand what you're saying, but some teenagers and young folks think they're immortal - parents can talk, explain, lecture, demonstrate, whatever - and it goes in one ear & out the other. My own 16 year old daughter is way too cocky for her level of experience, (but I didn't get to teach her to drive), and she rolls her eyes when I say so. I wish that judges would impose more sentences on young people convicted of reckless driving, that include heartfelt explanations to others in their age group, either in person, or on film, telling the story of their bad judgement. In my opinion, that's the kind of testimony young folks MIGHT pay attention to.
I also feel that the "one rearend accident & you're fired" rule is unreasonable - it's impossible to leave a safe following distance in many places: if there's enough room for someone to get in, someone will. (Especially in Chicago!) If they cut in front of you, & immediately slam on the brakes, you're in trouble, all right, but is it your fault?

 

[lanier1]

You are right. Sometimes it doesn't matter what they have been taught, told or shown. Teenagers are going to test the limits of most anything they can. You can only hope they can survive these years and obviously too many do not. The sad part is the parents who might now want to blame someone for thier tragedy. In this case its a truck driver who we can only hope will prevail in a frivalous law suit if it comes to that.

 

[ATeam]

I once served as the foreman of a jury on a traffic case that lasted a full week. It took that long for the witnesses and experts from both sides to explain their views of an accident that occured in a split second and was over as fast; and for the jury to discuss everything and reach a decision. The lesson I learned from that was there are numerous items and points of view to consider in any case, including a bunch of facts that are not reported in the news and even the accident reports.

Since then, I have been slow to form an opinion about any court case that is in the news. I have also been continually amazed by speed and ease with which people form opinions in the absense of facts, and the ferocity with which people will cling to and defend their hastily-formed views.

Once an opinion is formed, people tend to cling to it beyond reason. In some cases, they would rather fight and even die than open their mind to new information or facts that do not support their views.

It is so sad that we are culturally-conditioned to go to fault and blame when we hear of a traffic accident. In this case, a fatality, the truck driver and the girl's and family are probably in agony with grief and regret. Yes, there will be a time to talk about tail lights. This day, my thoughts are on the broken hearts and lives that such accidents cause.

 

[cheri1122]

We aren't rubberneckers gawking at an accident, and blaming someone out of 'culteral conditioning', we're drivers, who spend around 80% of our lives behind the wheel. Reckless drivers put our lives at risk, and we'd prefer to avoid being blamed, even for contributing, by a legal system that is based upon blame and fault. If the law says that a nonoperating brake light was partially to blame, that information is pretty pertinent, wouldn't you say?

 

[highway star]

In general, I agree with Ateam on this. The lacrosse players/strippers incident is a good example of when judgment should be withheld. But, in this case we have multiple witnesses who saw the same thing. This is one we should use as an example for the young people in our lives.

 

[simon says]

Sorry, but I think everyone misses the point made in the beginning! We cannot be responsible for how people drive their cars, but if we do our inspections daily, we may help to save lives. If we are running on an underinflated tire and it blows out causing an accident with the car next to us, I think that's our fault. How bout seeing the wood for the trees?

 

[Broompilot]

Simon, by your comment you seem to want to live in a perfect world which in trucking is far from.....

I once in TN did my PTI to only have it announced by another driver that I had to Marker lights anywhere on my truck. Crap happens, yes a PTI limits the exposure but just like last week on Friday evening I discovered a headlamp out at 2am am I suppose to shut down until its light to replace or drive with one?

My answer, load was delivered on time, I changed the bulb right there while the customer unloaded the frieght at 8 AM.

People should take responsibility for there own actions.... She was driving wreckless with wittnes's according to the post. Guilty in my opinion of being dumb. Now like A team said I do not know the whole story, but I am not on the jury either.

 

[x06col]

Sadly, taking ten minutes to change a headlamp at 8 AM, in a delivery parking lot, however admirable, instead of at 2 AM when discovered, will probably get you no cigar's in this ruff and tumble world. Seems clear to me that the responding cop had it in for trucks, or, there is more to the story than we know. Quite possibly the truck driver could have been one of those "lane changers" also. I'v seen a few in my day. One thing for sure, i'd have that cop watch me take the light bulb out, and put it in custody for examination if I recieved a ticket involving a death. I'd liken that seemlessly harmless faulty equipment ticket to that cute lil bear cub, that will one day grow to be a growly, fangy critter. This is not a shot at anyone, just, cold hard remider to "face it now". Bad news does not get better with age.