Police State

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I have always said that weapon bans, of any type, are not for "crime control" but primarily to make it easier for the Federal Government to take over the country. They want as little armed opposition to their tyranny as possible.

A spokeswoman for U.S. Sen. Charles Schumer, pretty much comes out and says that in this article. That the GOVERNMENT should have semi auto rifles but NOT the People.

The State of New York seems to have no problem with subsidizing the production of these firearms as long as ONLY the government and it's agencies have access to them.

A police state in the making. Karl and Joseph would be proud.






[h=1]NY has pumped money into semiautomatic-rifle plant[/h]
ALBANY, N.Y. (AP) -- New York state has spent nearly $6 million over the past three years on subsidies for a two-century-old upstate factory that makes firearms including semiautomatic rifles used by the military and police and like those used in the recent mass killings in Connecticut and Webster, N.Y.


Though several elected leaders in this tough-on-guns state want tighter restrictions on those military-style weapons, none say it's time to stop supporting Remington Arms Co. and risk the nearly 1,000 jobs it provides in the central New York community of Ilion. The gunmaker has plenty of defenders, particularly those who support the continued manufacture of weapons used by the military or police.


In 2010, Empire State Development, the agency that works with private companies to attract and retain jobs, announced $2.5 million in grants and subsidies to help Remington bring its Marlin lever-action gun production from Connecticut to Ilion and add 100 jobs. That followed two grants in 2009 worth $3 million for renovations and machinery.


"It was never the desire of the state of New York to subsidize the development of the sort of tactical weapons that ended up being used in Connecticut and now, I understand, in upstate New York as well," said Assemblyman Charles Lavine, a Long Island Democrat. "By tactical weapons, I'm talking about a rifle such as the Bushmaster."


In early 2011, Bushmaster Firearms moved manufacturing operations from Windham, Maine, to Ilion, where Remington now makes Bushmaster guns. No state money was used in that transfer, which brought more than 40 jobs.


Police said Bushmaster military-style rifles were used to kill 20 elementary school children and seven adults in Newtown, Conn., and to kill two volunteer firefighters and seriously wound two others Monday when they responded to a blaze in Webster, N.Y.


Police have not said where the guns used in the shootings were manufactured. It's possible they were made in Maine before operations moved to New York; Remington also has one other production plant in Hickory, Ky., according to the company's website.


A spokeswoman for U.S. Sen. Charles Schumer said he has consistently said that he believes it's appropriate for lawmakers to support production of semiautomatic assault-style weapons for military and law enforcement use, but that the guns don't belong in the hands of civilians. Schumer, who has helped Remington secure Army contracts including an $8.9 million award in 2011 to produce 1,212 M24 sniper rifles, joined the company at last year's event announcing the move of Bushmaster to Ilion.


Remington has been in central New York since 1816 when, legend has it, Eliphalet Remington II made a flintlock gun on his father's forge, entered a shooting contest with it and finished second. He began to receive orders for rifles and barrels from other contestants. The company, headquartered in Madison, N.C., is part of the Freedom Group that owns several gun manufacturers, including Bushmaster. It also makes guns for the military, police and sportsmen. The company did not reply to requests for comment.


"I think it's wrong to blame the gun manufacturer," said state Sen. James Seward, an Oneonta Republican who has the factory in his district. He said the state must address the criminal justice and mental health systems to keep disturbed and dangerous people from getting guns.


"I still support the company," he said.


Since the Newtown shootings, New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo has said better gun control should be addressed first with federal legislation, noting New York already has some of the toughest gun laws and many of the guns used in crimes come from out of state. He added that the state ban on so-calledassault weapons has "significant loopholes," including allowing large-capacity magazines made before 1994.


"Much of the law's on the cosmetics of the gun, the design of the gun, rather than the actual capacity of it, so there's no question but that the law needs to be improved, in my mind," he said.


New York law generally prohibits possession of an assault weapon or large-capacity magazine, felonies punishable by up to 7 years in prison. An assault weapon is defined as a semiautomatic rifle that can use a detachable magazine and has at least two of these other characteristics: folding stock, pistol grip, bayonet mount, flash suppressor or grenade launcher.


Police said the Bushmaster that William Spengler used to kill two firefighters in an ambush Monday morning was equipped with a flash suppressor, which makes it harder for a potential target to see the flash of light emitted from the end of the rifle barrel when a round is fired. Many of the Bushmaster rifles advertised also have pistol grips.


"I think much more has to be done on assault weapons, quote unquote, starting with the point: How do you define an assault weapon?" Cuomo said. He promised his gun proposal in his State of the State Address on Jan. 9.



Cuomo spokesman Richard Azzopardi said subsidies to Remington were awarded under the previous administration and that are no pending requests for future aid.


Assemblyman Marc Butler, a Republican who represents Ilion, said that Remington makes guns that are legal and that the company and the community are getting "a bad rap" following the tragedies, he said.


"I find that totally unacceptable," said Butler, who helped get the state funding for Remingto







NY has pumped money into semiautomatic-rifle plant - Yahoo! News
 

EnglishLady

Veteran Expediter
Well you probably knew I would chime in LOL :p

But I agree that Military type weapons have no need to be in the hands of civilians.

You need a hand gun for protections ..fine, you need a rifle for hunting...fine. You do not need a semi-automatic anything IMO humble of course.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Well you probably knew I would chime in LOL :p

But I agree that Military type weapons have no need to be in the hands of civilians.

You need a hand gun for protections ..fine, you need a rifle for hunting...fine. You do not need a semi-automatic anything IMO humble of course.

What is the difference between a 'military type weapon and a civilian weapon anyway? EVERY rifle owned was, or is, at one time, a "military type weapon. In Michigan it has ALWAYS been legal to own semi auto rifles AND to hunt with them. The Federal government has no standing here.

Wrong. We have a RIGHT to own what ever we want. The Second amendment has NOTHING to do with hunting. It is solely about defense. Defense of self and family, defense of property, defense of State, and lastly, defense of the Nation.

The Michigan Constitution REQUIRES that ALL able bodied men between the ages of 18-45 belong to the State Militia. It also states quite clearly that we have a RIGHT to keep and bear arms for defense of self and state. There are no restrictions. The People of Michigan, and the State of Michigan, have an absolute right to defend themselves from any and all enemies, foreign or domestic. That INCLUDES defense against an oppressive and illegal Federal Government. Which ours is quickly becoming.

Section 8 of the Michigan Constitution requires that the military be, at all times, subordinate to the "civil power", which IS the People. Without access to the proper arms that is not possible.

Right to bear arms.

Sec. 7. Every person has a right to bear arms for the defense of himself and the state.


Military subordinate to civil power.


Sec. 8. The military shall in all cases, and at all times, be in strict subordination to the civil power.



 

EnglishLady

Veteran Expediter
The 'ordinary, legal' civilian in Michigan can't even keep a handgun away from their toddler .... again!

Another child shot himself (luckily only in the foot) with parents weapon.

How are you going to regulate these types of 'legal' gun owners and make sure they never get a semi-automatic when they can't be trusted with a hand gun?
:confused:
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
The 'ordinary, legal' civilian in Michigan can't even keep a handgun away from their toddler .... again!

Another child shot himself (luckily only in the foot) with parents weapon.

How are you going to regulate these types of 'legal' gun owners and make sure they never get a semi-automatic when they can't be trusted with a hand gun?
:confused:

The number of firearms accidents in the United States are lower now that at ANY point in the history of the Country. They account for less that 1% of all accidents.

There is NO possible way to stop 100% of accidents. Cars kill more teens than guns and cars and driving are heavily regulated, that did not work

Besides, there is no LEGAL way to 'regulate' owners of firearms in a free society.

More kids are killed drowning in bath tubes every year so how would one suggest to 'regulate' "legal bath tub" owners?

The Second Amendment AND Michigan's Section 7 are about where the power in the State and Country should reside. The POWER must remain in the hands of the People and the is EXACTLY why that amendment and section were written To insure that the PEOPLE remain in firm control of and and total power over their government.

I AM an ordinary citizen of the State of Michigan. I don't need regulated to stay safe. That accident you speak of is more indicative of an abnormal citizen. They ONLY point out the BAD things. How about the TRUE, more ACCURATE headline,

MILLIONS OF MICHIGAN GUN OWNERS COMMITTED NO CRIMES AND HAD NO ACCIDENTS TODAY. SEVERAL CRIMES WERE AVERTED DUE TO PRIVATE FIREARMS OWNERSHIP! THE TREND OF HUNDREDS OF YEARS CONTINUES.

The first sentence of that story would go something like this.

It was a normal day in Michigan. The vast majority of guns owners set another record for fewest gun accidents since records have been kept.

There are several hard facts that need pointed out.

You cannot legislate responsible action

You cannot legislate away stupidity

Making criminals out of law abiding citizens will never reduce crime, it will only increase it.
 
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EnglishLady

Veteran Expediter
I agree with .. you cannot regulate stupidity .... but I believe you do need regulations, how else can you punish the irresponsible and the criminals :rolleyes:

Not sure what you mean by this line ... "Making criminals out of law abiding citizens will never reduce crime, it will only increase it."
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I agree with .. you cannot regulate stupidity .... but I believe you do need regulations, how else can you punish the irresponsible and the criminals :rolleyes:

Not sure what you mean by this line ... "Making criminals out of law abiding citizens will never reduce crime, it will only increase it."

EVERY crime committed is already illegal and the ones who commit them are already punished.
Be VERY careful of the idea of punishing the "irresponsible". Starting with the President on down there would be a LOT of people in jail.

What did in mean by that statement? Simple. Make what I own, or require me to register my self as as firearms owner WILL cause me to break that law, making a former law abiding citizen a criminal, there fore increasing crime. The ONLY difference is that, unlike most 'thugs' I am quiet smart, well armed and more than capable to use those arms to defend my rights. Which I WILL do. So will millions of others in this State and Country.

Why are there so many people out there think it is a GOOD idea to try to take away my semi-auto firearms? They have NEVER been used in a crime nor have ever harmed anyone. Any attempt to do so, however, will result in both. My oath to defend the Constitution REQUIRES that action. My love of freedom does as well. Patrick Henry would be proud of me!

You never did answer my question as to the difference between a 'civilian' firearm or a 'military' firearm.
 
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RLENT

Veteran Expediter
I agree with .. you cannot regulate stupidity .... but I believe you do need regulations, how else can you punish the irresponsible and the criminals
The problem apparently is that that you are quite willing to punish the law abiding and the responsible ... along with the criminal ...

Not sure what you mean by this line ... "Making criminals out of law abiding citizens will never reduce crime, it will only increase it."
When the laws of the land no longer reflect popular sentiment and mores, people will flaunt and defy it.

Unjust laws and tyrannical actions by an oppressive government are how revolutions get started.

Just ask old King John what happened in the meadow at Runnymede on 15 June 1215 ...
 
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EnglishLady

Veteran Expediter
EVERY crime committed is already illegal and the ones who commit them are already punished.
Be VERY careful of the idea of punishing the "irresponsible". Starting with the President on down there would be a LOT of people in jail.

What did in mean by that statement? Simple. Make what I own, or require me to register my self as as firearms owner WILL cause me to break that law, making a former law abiding citizen a criminal, there fore increasing crime. The ONLY difference is that, unlike most 'thugs' I am quiet smart, well armed and more than capable to use those arms to defend my rights. Which I WILL do. So will millions of others in this State and Country.


You never did answer my question as to the difference between a 'civilian' firearm or a 'military' firearm.


Without regulations in place surely you cannot be breaking a law :confused:

As for my non reply on civilian or military weapon differences ....... you know full well (and better than I do) what is meant by the line ..... Weapons used on a Military battleground have no place on our streets
:)
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Without regulations in place surely you cannot be breaking a law :confused:

As for my non reply on civilian or military weapon differences ....... you know full well (and better than I do) what is meant by the line ..... Weapons used on a Military battleground have no place on our streets
:)

IF they put that regulation in place I will break it.

No, I don't understand what you mean by "used on a military battleground" EVERY firearm I own fits that bill and MOST of what I own are FAR more powerful and lethal than what our military rifle is.
 

EnglishLady

Veteran Expediter
IF they put that regulation in place I will break it.

No, I don't understand what you mean by "used on a military battleground" EVERY firearm I own fits that bill and MOST of what I own are FAR more powerful and lethal than what our military rifle is.

LOL I didn't say it - the President said it :p

I assume he meant semi and fully auto weapons ..... he may have meant grenades, rocket launchers, etc too :rolleyes:
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
LOL I didn't say it - the President said it :p

I assume he meant semi and fully auto weapons ..... he may have meant grenades, rocket launchers, etc too :rolleyes:

Is he, or anyone, going to TRY to take MY semi auto's away? I DON'T THINK SO!!! Besides, I have EVERY right to own a grenade or a even tank if I choose.

Under which part of either Michigan's or the US Constitution does comrade Obama have the LEGAL AUTHORITY to circumvent RIGHTS that he neither has the power to grant or remove?
 

EnglishLady

Veteran Expediter
Is he, or anyone, going to TRY to take MY semi auto's away? I DON'T THINK SO!!! Besides, I have EVERY right to own a grenade or a even tank if I choose.

Under which part of either Michigan's or the US Constitution does comrade Obama have the LEGAL AUTHORITY to circumvent RIGHTS that he neither has the power to grant or remove?

LOL I was thinking of adding a tank on to that list :p

I believe it was his opinion that he was giving, not an instruction to make a law or whatever .... you know ..... that little thing about free speech :)
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
LOL I was thinking of adding a tank on to that list :p

I believe it was his opinion that he was giving, not an instruction to make a law or whatever .... you know ..... that little thing about free speech :)


No, it is not an "opinion". He has commissioned a very one sided task force to draft new laws, which they intend to try to pass, all of which are in direct contadiction of both the Michigan and US Constitutions. He has STATED that he WILL USE ALL THE POWER HE HAS, which includes the military, to insure that his laws are put into effect.

I am FIRST a CITIZEN of the SOVEREIGN Sate of Michigan and my fiduciary duty is to Michigan and I have a DUTY to defend Her against ALL enemies, even the Federal Government. I will uphold that duty.

Watch for some "executive orders" to come out very soon AFTER King Putz the 1st starts his second term. ALL of which WILL be illegal.
 

EnglishLady

Veteran Expediter
No, it is not an "opinion". He has commissioned a very one sided task force to draft new laws, which they intend to try to pass, all of which are in direct contadiction of both the Michigan and US Constitutions. He has STATED that he WILL USE ALL THE POWER HE HAS, which includes the military, to insure that his laws are put into effect.

I am FIRST a CITIZEN of the SOVEREIGN Sate of Michigan and my fiduciary duty is to Michigan and I have a DUTY to defend Her against ALL enemies, even the Federal Government. I will uphold that duty.

Watch for some "executive orders" to come out very soon AFTER King Putz the 1st starts his second term. ALL of which WILL be illegal.


Good gracious ! :(
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Good gracious ! :(


Sorry, but that is the law of the Land. The Federal Government is subject to the States and the State governments are subject to the People. The People are the highest authority in this country and have EVERY RIGHT to insure it stays that way.

We threw out the idea of Kings or powerful central governments in 1776 in favor of private citizen control OVER the Government. It is the CORE VALUE this Nation is based on.

Obama IS setting the course for civil war, just as Lincoln did. We are a much younger country than England. England had it's share of 'civil wars' and wars of oppression, so will we. Every nation has. I do believe that here, however, the People shall prevail and freedom will shine again.


ANYWHO:

I have to head out to the gunsmith. I need two of my firearms worked on before the manure impacts the spinning blades. Every piece I have must be in tip top working order BEFORE Armageddon!

I will be back later to explain life to you some more! :p

I took some pics on my stupid smart phone, the buying of which was one of my dumber purchases, and they have yet to show up in my email, send them an hour ago. It is two pics to SHOW just how NOT POWERFUL the cartridge is that King Putz 1st says should not be allowed!
 

xiggi

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
Well you probably knew I would chime in LOL :p

But I agree that Military type weapons have no need to be in the hands of civilians.

You need a hand gun for protections ..fine, you need a rifle for hunting...fine. You do not need a semi-automatic anything IMO humble of course.

Can you tell me the difference between say a semi auto and a lever action?

Sent from my Fisher Price - ABC 123
 

EnglishLady

Veteran Expediter
Can you tell me the difference between say a semi auto and a lever action?

Sent from my Fisher Price - ABC 123


Hmmm without searching on the internet for answers = I am going to go with .....

A lever action is pull back that top thingy and fire and then you have to do it again to fire again.

A semi auto - pull trigger once for loads of bullets to fire out (or is that fully auto :confused:)
Maybe keep pulling on trigger for lots of bullets without keep pulling that top thingy back.

Be gentle on the marking out of 10 please :p
 

xiggi

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
Hmmm without searching on the internet for answers = I am going to go with .....

A lever action is pull back that top thingy and fire and then you have to do it again to fire again.

A semi auto - pull trigger once for loads of bullets to fire out (or is that fully auto :confused:)
Maybe keep pulling on trigger for lots of bullets without keep pulling that top thingy back.

Be gentle on the marking out of 10 please :p

Legitimate question, how can you be against something when you don't even know what it is?

Sent from my Fisher Price - ABC 123
 

xiggi

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
To simplify it is maybe half a second diference between firing. Do you think that will really save life's?

Sent from my Fisher Price - ABC 123
 
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