please help new to the biz

miker

Seasoned Expediter
I am set to pick up a 2008 chevy express 2500 series extended
tomorrow , and with reading all of the forums in here , I am getting really nervous. I am 38 yrs old married with an 8 yr old child, I'm ok with with working a lot, but do not wish to be gone for 2 weeks or more at a time, but am not afraid to put in to get a return. I have had a small construction company of my own several yrs ago, so I am not completely new at having a business earn a profit, especially since with this business I plan on working by my self , getting the job in with low stress while providing a decent living for my family while my wife attends 2 yrs of nursing school. sorry to ramble but I just wonder is the industry really as bad as everyone on here is saying? I found in my other business that those who were suggesting that it was the industries fault ,and not there lack of input into earning a living were the ones that were not successful at it.I guess when it's all said and done I just want to know am I making a mistake here? any help would be greatly appreciated
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
I am set to pick up a 2008 chevy express 2500 series extended tomorrow , and with reading all of the forums in here , I am getting really nervous.
As well you should be. And here's why...
I am 38 yrs old married with an 8 yr old child,
There ya go. Expediting is no business for someone to be in with a young child at home.

That child needs a full-time dad, not a weekend dad. But with expediting, you won't even be a weekend dad. Two weeks out and then a couple of days home is the absolute minimum in most cases to make a little money, but those who do that usually eat up that money in deadheading home. You have to pick and choose when to go home at those times in which you are close to home to begin with. I know people who will deadhead home to Michigan from Memphis, or South Carolina, or <gulp> Laredo, all the while complaining they aren't making any money. Well, duh.

I'm ok with with working a lot, but do not wish to be gone for 2 weeks or more at a time, but am not afraid to put in to get a return.
In order to put in, you have to put in the time in order to be available, and that means staying available for those last loads on Friday night and Saturday morning. If you go home on Friday, you miss those load opportunities, and when you come back out Monday morning too many others have beaten you to the punch so you're way down on the list for loads. You end up getting a load on Tuesday, or Wednesday. Those who go home every weekend are essentially working from Tuesday thru Thursday, cutting out on Friday and then killing off Monday waiting in line. Staying out for two weeks at a time is marginally better than home every weekend. You need three weeks out at a minumum, usually.

I have had a small construction company of my own several yrs ago, so I am not completely new at having a business earn a profit, especially since with this business I plan on working by my self , getting the job in with low stress while providing a decent living for my family while my wife attends 2 yrs of nursing school.
Well, just keep in mind that when you're on the road what you have left behind is essentially a single mom with an 8 year old child. If the stress of school and you being gone isn't enough to kill the marriage, the stress of you being at home on a parti-time, irregular basis will. By that I mean, she will quickly get used to making all the decision that need to be made, and then you come waltzing in and start making decisions, many of which will contradict hers, and there ya go. Seen it too many times. Marriage is hard enough without adding that kind of stress to it.

To pile on, a solo in a van honestly can't count on more than about $500 a week take home until he really and truly understands what is going on out here, how things work, how to work within his carrier's system, when to move, when not to move, what loads to take or turn down, etc. That takes a year at least, probably two. I'm still figuing it out.

sorry to ramble but I just wonder is the industry really as bad as everyone on here is saying?
The days of low stress and easy money are long gone out of expediting. Yes, it is as bad as people say it is. Worse, actually, for someone new just getting into the business. You can make it if you are smart, have the time to put into it, have something to occupy a lot, lot, lot of idle time while waiting on loads, and have few financial and family obligations at home. The failure rate in expediting would curl your toes.

I found in my other business that those who were suggesting that it was the industries fault ,and not there lack of input into earning a living were the ones that were not successful at it.
The same thing is said in this industry. Nature of the beast, everyone blames everyone but themselves. Having said that, it doesn't matter how diligent you are out here, how much you put into it, you are at the mercy of your carrier to find you loads, by and large. And if your financial needs are such that they don't fit into the carrier's system, or if you expect something different than what you are getting, you're screwed.

I guess when it's all said and done I just want to know am I making a mistake here? any help would be greatly appreciated
Quite probably, yes.

Now that I have you good and scared, consider that all that I have said assumes nothing, mainly because I know nothing. I don't know what carrier you are coming on with, or what your situation is at home. I don't know how much money you have at the ready for emergencies and other unexpected expennses (you should have about five grand in the bank before you take your first load, of not $5000, then at a minimum of $2000, working to get it up to $5000 ASAP). I don't know how ready your van is set up for expediting, like decking and e-track or other securements, insulation, sleeper, etc. But, take all that I have said and take a close look at how much, if any of it, applies to your situation. The more of it that applies to you, the less likely you should be entering expediting.
 

miker

Seasoned Expediter
I certainly appreciate your honesty, but I just dont understand why you would have do deadhead home from some place that is 1000 miles away, cant the carrier find anything for you to go to next that willl start to bring you closer to home, I mean they do know where you are going and where your final destination will be ( home ) before you ever evenn leave for delivery. dont get me wrong here I completetly understand what your saying but it sounds like the carrier doesnt really care wheteher or not they can make it worth your while, I know that I sound a little nieve here in thinking that the carrier should care about it being worth your while. what do you think about local deliveries, and not running to places like Laredo Tx. basically staying with in your tri state area. are drivers setting up sleepers in carg vans, I wouldnt think that there would be room for that to be a permanent fixture? again any info is appreciated
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
It appears to me that your research consists more of wishful thinking than actual research. The industry does not care how you feeel or what you understand. Carriers are not going to change their ways because you think they should see things the way you see them and put freight on your truck. Buying a van now and doing research later is setting yourself up to crash.

The following thread may be instructive. The circumstances are not the same as yours but some of it applies.

See: Expediters Going Hungry, For Real
 
Last edited:

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Some carriers can, some can't, some will, some won't. Mainly, rather than spend time searching for a specific load going to a specific geographical location for a specific driver, they are trying to get the loads they already have in hand placed on empty trucks. If you're sitting in, say, Omaha, NE and are wanting a load home, they can't manufacture the loads that come out of Omaha, they take 'em as the come, and the next one that comes out of there may be going to Michigan, or it might be going to Atlanta. If you're in an area a little closer, like Memphis, you can request a load going home, and if one comes up they will probably offer it to you. In the meantime, though, you'll get passed over for loads not going home, some of which may worth taking. Big trucks and straight trucks have a better chance of getting a home request honored, for a lot of reason, not the least of which cargo vans are a dime a dozen and there are so many of them, and they aren't going to spend a lot of time trying to find a relatively low revenue vehicle a specific type of load. Like I said, I have no idea what carrier you are planning on going with, as that will make a difference. With Panther, for example, the dispatchers are overworked and underpaid and they have too many loads and too many trucks to get loaded to worry about getting this or that driver home. If you ask for a load headed towards home, you might get lucky and the next load you are offered does in fact head that way, but it'll be the luck of the draw when it happens.

Running local deliveries and trying to stay within a certain region will generally work only if the carrier itself is more of a regional carrier and their customers are regional with their shipping. Depends on who you go with.

The loads in expediting can take you anywhere. I know people who live in Ohio, right in the middle of the freight lanes, who manage to get home every 3 or 4 months. I know one straight truck team who lives there who hasn't even been IN Ohio in 5 months. In the last two weeks I've had loads that took me to Jackson, TN, Hattiesburg, MS, Memphis, TN, Wichita, KS, Des Moines, IA, Omaha, NE, Cresco, IA, Eden Prairie, MN, Gary, IN, Crossville, TN, Auburn Hills, MI and Alliston, ON.

As for sleeper in cargo vans, you can do three skids and hope you're not laoded when it's time to go to sleep, or you can do two skids and always have a bunk when needed. Here's some pics of my van. Some are relevant to this, some not so much.


Shelves and stuff

Interior

Batteries

Around the house


To view any of them full size, just click "main", then full size.
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
One other thing to consider: the stress and workload for a nursing student are frequently VERY high - do you think that it would help your wife to have you gone so much, while she's in school? Nursing school is a fulltime job in itself. Adding a child and household responsibilities can make it overwhelming, and the result is too often a failure to graduate - I saw it firsthand, when I was in school, and last year, when my daughter was, too. Your wife is going to need more support & help from you while in school - it's not the best time to be gone for weeks, believe me. Turtle is absolutely right: you'll be gone for weeks, or you'll be spending more than you earn to go home.
 

miker

Seasoned Expediter
well Turtle, you certainly have given me some good advice, I know without a doubt that I will not stay away from my family for 2 weeks at a time , so if thats what it takes to only bring home a little more than what the bills are then it just doesnt make financial sense , the rough $ that I came up with were as follows, and please give me some more input on this. you just might be saving me from making a huge financial mistake.

at least 300 loaded miles per day at 1.15 per mile = 345.00 per day- 24 days per month totals 8280.00 gross- approxiamtely 1800.00 for fuel- 425.00 for van- 100.00 for insurance
Nets 5917.00 less 25 % put back for taxes leaves a final net of approxiamtely 4450.00 per month

am I on another planet with this line of thinking?

not to be a jack of all trades and master of none but I will also use this van to install replacement windows which as I mentioned earlier was something that I had done for a very long time , but that too cannot keep you busy all of the time but is pretty good money if your not afraid to go to work before 10 am and stay longer than 3 pm , I have a small carrier that wants to keep me busy as much or as little as I want , so my thinking honestly is to do both and not specifically one more than the other, but both have slow times and both can pretty much be scheduled 1-2 days or same day sometimes for servfices . The figures above were running cargo alone on a full time basis. So I'd really like to hear what one thinks?
 

pjjjjj

Veteran Expediter
at least 300 loaded miles per day at 1.15 per mile = 345.00 per day- 24 days per month totals 8280.00 gross- approxiamtely 1800.00 for fuel- 425.00 for van- 100.00 for insurance
Nets 5917.00 less 25 % put back for taxes leaves a final net of approxiamtely 4450.00 per month

It is always interesting how easy and simple things look on paper.
Why don't you look into buying a nice, less expensive, used van to test the waters first?
 
Last edited:

miker

Seasoned Expediter
have been burned too many times on used vehichles, I did look at some and have really wieghed the whole new versues used and new just makes more sense to me, honestly if a 200 dollar per month payment over a 400 dollar a month payment will make or break me then no van should be purchased at all. Not to be a wise a$$ thats just how I feel about used vehichles
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
Can't help but wonder where you got the numbers you're using - 1.15/mile for a cargo van? If you can get that rate, and "at least 300 miles per day", well, go for it. But I don't know anyone who is getting that rate, or (consistently) that kind of loaded miles in a cargo van, so I'd be sceptical of the promises, if you don't have independent corroboration....if it turns out to have been an inflated (& empty) promise, guess who is left holding the bag?
 

miker

Seasoned Expediter
now were getting somewhere, I am meeting the company again tomorrow and verifying the rate is priority # 1 for me, no miles were promised I used that number as thinking that it should not be out of the question to have that many miles loaded per day. what do youu think is a feasable # of loaded miles per day as an average estimate, I realize that nothing can be guarenteed but just trying to get some idea
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
...the rough $ that I came up with were as follows, and please give me some more input on this. you just might be saving me from making a huge financial mistake.

at least 300 loaded miles per day at 1.15 per mile = 345.00 per day- 24 days per month totals 8280.00 gross- approxiamtely 1800.00 for fuel- 425.00 for van- 100.00 for insurance
Nets 5917.00 less 25 % put back for taxes leaves a final net of approxiamtely 4450.00 per month

am I on another planet with this line of thinking?
Quite likely, yes. Don't know your carrier or their customer base, though, but in any case those numbers are too high. More likely your per mile figure, including FSC, will be a good dime or more less than you think.

But, first order of business is to completely discard the silly notion that you will get a load every day. You won't. There will be times when you deliver a load and then sit there, or move to another place to sit there, for 24, 48, 72 hours before getting another load. Assess your numbers and figure your expected averages over a longer term. You can have a 400 mile week just as easily as you can have a 2500 mile week. The only think about expediting that is consistent is how inconsistent it is.

Second, some loads will be 50 miles, some will be 500, ya never know. Currently, the average length for expedited loads is, I believe, a tad under 300 miles. The less-than 300 mile loads probably outnumber the more-than 300 mile loads by a margin or 2 to 1, maybe higher. Most originate and end within freight lanes of the Midwest, Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, Illinois and Pennsylvania. I once had a week where I had 8 loads in 5 days, never left the state of Ohio, and racked up a grand total of 1100 miles for the week. I've also sat for two and three days in the middle of Ohio waiting for my next load. Then again, I've also had times where I never left the state of Texas and did an average of 2900 miles per week for 5 weeks.

Most van drivers would consider a 1500 mile week a pretty good one. Most would consider a 6000 mile month a great one. 1100 miles or so as an average over 4 weeks, assuming that you're not going home on Fridays and then coming back out on Monday, is about the average out here. If you're home every weekend then you'll end up getting loaded between one and three times per week, and if the stars are lined up just right you might average 900 miles a week, and even that's on the high end of wishful thinking.

I was just off at home for the entire month of August seeing to stuff and taking a vacation. The two weeks prior to my going out of service I had a 2100 mile week that ended with a Monday AM delivery in Grand Rapids. Two days later on Wednesday I had a real barn burner of a 52 mile load from Walker to Lansing, then finally on Saturday I deadheaded the 600 miles home from Lansing to western KY. I had a request in for a load heading in the direction of home into dispatch since that Monday morning. Five days, no load home, only one load offered, 52 miles for that week. I take that back, I was offered another load that I turned down, it was from Grand Rapids to Montreal, picking up that Friday delivering on Monday, except that I had to be home by Monday.

Bottom line, a full time cargo van can hope to net $30,000 at the end of the year, and can probably count on $25,000, but that's full time, out 3-5 weeks at a time. Anything less mean less net.

...so my thinking honestly is to do both and not specifically one more than the other, but both have slow times and both can pretty much be scheduled 1-2 days or same day sometimes for servfices . The figures above were running cargo alone on a full time basis. So I'd really like to hear what one thinks?
You might be able to pull that off, depending on your carrier. Just keep in mind that you will not make any money as a part time expediter. Weekly expenses like insurance and Qualcomm (if applicable) still tick away even when you're not expediting. Those who expedite part time usually do it to alleviate boredom, they have been in expediting a while and are semi-retired and do it just to keep busy once in a while.

Also, depending on your carrier, you have to be very careful what you do with the van on your own time if the van is lettered and logo'd. Even when running to the grocery store, you are representing the company behind the logo. Make sure they are OK with being represented as a replacement window installation company. ;)

Like I said earlier, the days of low stress and easy money in expediting are long gone. It's not a part time proposition, you have to commit to it, and commit full time. Those who fail invariably can't, or won't, make that committment.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
have been burned too many times on used vehichles, I did look at some and have really wieghed the whole new versues used and new just makes more sense to me, honestly if a 200 dollar per month payment over a 400 dollar a month payment will make or break me then no van should be purchased at all. Not to be a wise a$$ thats just how I feel about used vehichles

I forgot to comment on the above. It's not a matter of $200 versus $400, it's a matter of how heavy of a bag you're left holding if you want to get out of this (if you fail). I entered this business with a used Ford E-350 that I paid for with $5000 cash. I then put, I dunno, $2000 maybe into it, to get it mechanically sound and ready for the road. I drove that for a long time, while I learned the business, decided if it's something I wanted to do long term, and decided how I wanted to outfit a new van if I should stick with it. So I drove a paid-for van, and instead of having to make a monthly payment of $200 or $400, I put a least $500 into the bank each month for a significant down payment on this Sprinter.

It also allowed me to make some outfitting mistakes with that van rather than make them with the Sprinter, which would have been more costly to rectify. Doesn't matter if it's a van or a truck, the second one that people upfit is always gonna be better, cause the second one doesn't include all the mistakes from the first.
 

miker

Seasoned Expediter
:)very well said turtle, I to have been thru my fair share of used trucks in my construction days and just the older I get the less tolerance I have for the aggrevation of them, as I mentioned earlier , you have opened my eyes to not make this expediting a 100 % full time career, but will be doing it between slow days and slow times while doing replacement windows, and there may be more than the norm since I plan to work by myself so that I dont have to depend on whether my helper is going to be laid out drunk or not because just like anything good help is hard to find. and sometimes certain are going to be just too large for one person too handle by themself, so I will keep both ends open. You and Cherri I believe is the name have been a great help with this, Thank You
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
You've had a lot of good advice already. I just got back from Canada and playing catch up with various things. I suggest anyone considering this career read back a minimum of one year in each of the general, newbies and recruiter forums. You will find questions posed by others you never thought to ask. You'll also find various reports on companies, revenues etc. as well. I'm not sure I could say your presumptions on miles and pay are another planet because I'm not sure they're in this galaxy. I'm sure there are a handful of people who are loaded 24 days per month but they would be definitely the exception and then probably only by being available the entire 31 days. I'd say your estimate of 300 miles has the best chance of coming through but along with the loaded there will be another 100 or so of d/h. I know some vans with some carriers do $1.15 at least while loaded but I suspect that's high for an average. I would anticipate 1000 loaded miles per week average at maybe $1 a mile and work from there.

That said, all that advice is for someone with no kids under 18. An 8 year old needs both parents home every night asking about school and homework and friends and what not. Anything less is dereliction of parental duty. I understand the duty and responsibility of making a living and providing for the family but semi abandoning them to do it isn't a good plan. Stick with the windows and if that isn't enough then add a paper route in the morning before your kid is up or something. Good luck.
 

jaminjim

Veteran Expediter
Two things, first a paper route will net you more money if you plan on being a part timer, and your learning curve will be three or four times longer. Second thing would be your choice of a 2500 instead of a 3500.

I hear no passion for being out on the road, so why choose the type of job that has such a high failure rate by people who are trying to do it full time? If your want to be a part timer and need/want to be home that much, go contact a local air freight company.

I have to agree with A Teams post.

An additional thought came to mind:
I would think that your insurance will cost about 50% more.
I missed anything said about oil, lube, and filters.
I missed your phone costs.
Most (not all) will have a QC
Did your Carrier of choice agree that they want you as a part timer?
Like Leo said you need to figure your deadhead miles, as Turtle said yours will be much higher than the norm?
I don't know who your carrier is but if they say your paid miles will be $1.15, you won't be very busy.
 
Last edited:

late4dinner

Seasoned Expediter
miker, you have figured your fuel cost at .25 per mile. That will probably not cover your cost. You are probably not going to set in the van without the engine running to keep warm and cool. Also I don't know whether you are running gas or diesel but I saw reg gas yesterday in Tn and Ky at 4.49 per gal. Both Loves and Pilot was at 4.49 per gal.
 

FIS53

Veteran Expediter
Hope you don't mind my two cents. Look into a local carrier who has hot shots or is a regional type carrier. Reason...., definitely more home time. I'm with a smaller carrier and it is nice for having more time at home than I used to have. It allowed me to meet the guy the daughter is planning on marrying.

But one nice part is this will allow you to see if this is the type of business you want to persue fulltime and spend the 3-5 weeks away to make money. I make a profit doing more short runs than the longer ones as many short runs pay a lot more per mile and they keep me in the companies freight areas. No the miles are not great but a run at $3.00/mile are nice. Yes I get loaded every day during the week and some on weekends but this is more due to the fact the smaller company is not over hiring but pushing current fleet to cover calls. Unfortunately it means I can not really turn down the cheap calls as all calls have to be covered. But that's my situation.
Rob
 

miker

Seasoned Expediter
local frieght definately sounds like what I should consider, my family and I are moving back from sc to ohio very soon, so there are a lot of freight companies there that I can work with
all of the advice from everyone has been great and much appreciated, your right family is the most important thing which is the sole reason why we are moving back home to ohio where we are from, I believe we will stick with local deliveries and what I know in my sleep-(replacement windows)Thanks so much everyone
 
Top