Pilot Mixed W/BIO

bluejaybee

Veteran Expediter
At a Pilot in Georgia this week, I heard a trucker complaining to manager about Pilot mixing their fuel with 10% BIO diesel. Manager confirmed that Pilot was doing it nation wide. Trucker was not happy as he said it would clog his filters and mechanic told him not to use BIO. Now my question is, do any of you feel that 10% BIO blend would actually harm anything on your engine? I am not an expert, but don't think it alarms me. The worst I have heard about BIO is the fact that the first few tanks could clog your fuel filters. But this guy was raising sand about it. I assumed he found out after he had fueled. I don't know how long they have been mixing at Pilot, but 90% of my fuel comes from them and I have not had any fuel related problems "YET".
 

piper1

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
There are a lot of horror stories about BIO and most of them are CB stories at best. 10% BIO will not harm anything.

That said, the Bio needs to meet the appropriate ASTM Spec. I can't remember the number (Turtle HELP!!) but if it does things are OK. Some fuel places confuse BIO with things like waste veggie oil or old fryer grease. That stuff...not so good.

If you use BIO in the frigid north in the winter have enough anti gel (BIO compatible) and maybe limit the amount you buy. I did a bunch of Bio testing and blends over 20% when the temp got below 0F resulted in filter plugging enough that it started to cause the engines to cough. A 50% blend at 10F brought my Duramax to a halt.

If you use BIO, never admit it to anyone working on your truck, a handy reason for a warranty denial!!

I don't think Pilot is doing this widespread, most engine warranties have a 5% limit.
 

Slo-Ride

Veteran Expediter
I assumed he found out after he had fueled.

To my knowledge the pumps are marked with a green sticker stating 10 or 20%..Not a very big sticker but its there..
10% seems to burn ok a long as I have some fuel prior to filling up...Dont think I run a full tank of Bio of any blend Ive allways had fuel in the tanks when I took Bio on..
20% I avoid like the plague...My truck dont like it no matter how much I had before fueling up,,
Ive yet to have a filter proplem as I change em way to often anyways...
 

guido4475

Not a Member
Good evening, everyone!! Please forgive me for not knowing how to start a new thread.But I was wondering if any cargo van drivers that have a e-350 extended wheelbase with a 7.3 diesel engine tell me what the empty weight of your van may be, full of fuel. The gvw of mine is 9,400, with a empty weight of 7,460 full of fuel and sleeper, etc.which means I can only haul around 1,940#. I think this seems a little heavy empty, but this is all new to me.Any info would be greatly appreciated.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Good evening, everyone!! Please forgive me for not knowing how to start a new thread.But I was wondering if any cargo van drivers that have a e-350 extended wheelbase with a 7.3 diesel engine tell me what the empty weight of your van may be, full of fuel. The gvw of mine is 9,400, with a empty weight of 7,460 full of fuel and sleeper, etc.which means I can only haul around 1,940#. I think this seems a little heavy empty, but this is all new to me.Any info would be greatly appreciated.


That seems to be a just tad high, my GMC came in right at 7000 which left me with 2500.
 

hz909

Seasoned Expediter
Please forgive me for not knowing how to start a new thread

Click here. Then click the "New Thread" icon:

3495239387_1def6b8364.jpg




....which means I can only haul around 1,940#...Any info would be greatly appreciated.

This link may help. Also, it may be an urban legend, but I read recently that Quick Trip sells lighter fuel than the truck stops (explains why the QT gas is so cheap, comparatively).
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
That said, the Bio needs to meet the appropriate ASTM Spec. I can't remember the number (Turtle HELP!!) but if it does things are OK.
The spec for B100 is ASTM D6751-08.

The spec for blends (B6 to B20) is ASTM D7467-09.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
In most engines, big trucks engines for sure, B20 or below is supposed to burn the same way that B0 burns. B20 and below shouldn't clog fuel filters. B20 might be a problem with injectors, tho, so an injector cleaner should probably be used on a regular basis. Anything above B20 and different manufacturers will have different recommendations.

For the Sprinter, 07's and 08's say no biodiesel, period. For the 06's and earlier, B2 is recommended, but B5 and below performs the same. B5 is technically regular diesel, and doesn't have to be labeled as biodiesel, since the specs for B5 and regular diesel are the same.

Some states mandate that all diesel sold in the state be a biodiesel blend, and the pumps may or may not indicate this. Things change rapidly, and it's hard to keep up, but as far as I know, the states that have mandated biodiesel are Washington, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Louisiana, New Mexico, Massachusetts. these states have B2 laws, so whenever you buy diesel in these states, you're almost certainly getting B2 diesel, unless the pump is labeled for a higher blend.

The legislature in Iowa just passed their B5 bill, so it should become law soon.

As of May 1, Minnesota's biodiesel is mandated to be 5%, B5. That means all diesel sold in the state is supposed to be B5 or higher (up to B20). The other states that have mandated biodiesel have it set to 2%, B2 or higher.

In a big truck, none of this really matters, since there shouldn't be any problems with B20 or lower, but in a Sprinter, anything over B5 should be used with caution, and you should use a good injector cleaner fuel additive (I use Howes Power Cleaner for that). If you run into a B20-only situation, double the dose of Howes.

Do keep in mind that biodiesel in and of itself is not a bad thing at all. It's a good thing, actually, in many ways, chief among them is that it adds lubricity that ULSD removes from regular diesel. So when you use biodiesel, the use of additives for lubricity is not necessary. The only additives you need to add are cetane improvers (if you want that, but it's something that is recommended for Sprinters), or for injection cleaning, water dispersant, and flow improvers in the winter.

I use a mixture of Howes Power Cleaner for the injectors, and Power Service for the cetane improver and the moisture control.
 

ConfusedMuse

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Morning people:)
It sure isn't fair that REAL Diesel is the same price as the biodiesels. There should be some sort of reduced price for purchasing a fuel that doesn't burn as efficiently, and could do possible harm to our engines. When we purchase it, it gives us about 4 mpg less than what we usually get. We have also noticed that diesel that is yellow instead of white or clear gives us the best mpg.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Take note 2015 IF we are still around...

Higher biodiesel mandate takes effect in Minnesota

A new requirement to jump-start the struggling biodiesel industry has taken effect in Minnesota.

Effective today, all diesel sold in the state must contain at least 5 percent of the alternative fuel, which is made mostly from soybean oil.

Minnesota was the first state to require biodiesel when a 2 percent mandate took effect in 2005. Now that's up to 5 percent. The mandate will rise to 20 percent by 2015.

The big profit margins the biodiesel industry enjoyed in earlier years have disappeared. The cost of soybean oil is too high and the sale price of biodiesel is too low.

Skepticism over how the fuel performs in cold weather is another hurdle facing the industry. Biodiesel backers said any diesel fuel, whether bio or petroleum, can gel if the precautions aren't taken.
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
We had two freeze ups this winter. Fuel was from TA's in IN and IL. The dealer we stopped at in WI to change filters have set up a seperate gig to get the froze trucks coming from IL.
He said both states IN and IL cut too much bio into the fuel which waxes the filters. We have heated ones in the KW's but they iced at the cross valve. Had to change filters and add 911 to keep them going.
 

bluejaybee

Veteran Expediter
Live and learn is my "motto". Throw something out there and you never know what you might learn. I think my only concern would come in the winter time, from what I have read. It just urks me that I have to add additives to my fuel. But after a one time freeze up, I do not want that expense again. And that was with D2 diesel. So, when it is cold, I add what ever it takes.

But never heard BIO was bad on injectors, so I did learn something new today.
 

aileron

Expert Expediter
Bad for injectors? How can an 'additive' that improves lubricity can be bad for injectors? I used B70 in my sprinter one tank and no problem other than the french fries smell behind. Other times I used B20, B30, still no problem. I guess I like to go out of the norm a little. Now, if FedEx would just give me some loads so I can burn some of that BIO.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Bad for injectors? How can an 'additive' that improves lubricity can be bad for injectors?
Depends on the injector. In older systems, all of the fuel for a combustion cycle was injected at one time. Today’s modern systems allow several injections during a single combustion cycle. This allows engine calibrations to determine not only how much fuel is injected at each point in the cycle, but precisely when it is injected. The new systems rely on tighter tolerances, smaller injector orifices and higher pressures to produce smaller droplets.

The obvious benefits of biodiesel is increased cetane and added lubricity, but with those benefits comes increased deposits in the injectors of modern systems.

Some batches of biodiesel seems to be fine, some batches not so much. Europe produces about 5 times more biodiesel than we do, and they have a large problem with some batches of biodiesel causing injector problems, but for the most part it's not that big a deal over there, but that's also in large part because all of their diesel is 50 cetane (same as CARB diesel, and the same fuel the Sprinter engine is designed for) and because most of their diesel contains a detergent additive to keep the injectors clean.

When injectors become dirty, clogged, there is a loss of power. Test after test shows this right here:
20081113014409.jpg




I used B70 in my sprinter one tank and no problem other than the french fries smell behind. Other times I used B20, B30, still no problem. I guess I like to go out of the norm a little.
It's not like you'll fill the tank with high percentage biodiesel and bam! your injectors are clogged, but the damage will begin there. When you use B30, B70, then you get into the FAME thing. The "fatty acid methyl ester" (FAME) "biodiesel" fuels can cause significant problems with engine systems. The problems are more pronounced with less-used engines, like seasoning equipment, standby generators, etc. But the problems are just as real for everyday vehicles. The problem is, this fuel degrades quickly, and is accelerated by the presence of impurities in the fuel, oxygen, water and heat (keep in mind that the Sprinter recirculates heated fuel to the tank).

The products of bio-degradation are corrosive, with formic, acetic and organic acids, water and methanol compounds doing a real number on the corroding of fuel injectors, elastomer seal failures, leading to fuel system blockage, causing pump seizures, fuel injector spray hole blockage and increase injection pressures.

The corrosive effects on an engine that's used everyday, won't be as immediate, but the corrosion will occur nonetheless. Over time, it's a problem.

If you use biodiesel, in any blend, the use of a good detergent is an absolute must, and the higher the blend the more detergent is needed. Howes Power Cleaner is the one I use, because it's good, and because if you add too much it won't cause problems on its own, as is the case with many injector detergents.
 
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